Theology of intersex (hermaphrodites) individuals

godsfoolishness

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I like how this thread has started out, and there has been some great discussion so far from several different perspectives. I really hope this doesn't turn into another "yeah-huh / nah-ah" thread on homosexuality, though. (It might already be there.) :[
It looks like we are there... :doh:
 
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Octorock

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It doesn't have to be! I'll try to keep this on topic...

I remember an episode of Loveline I was listening to when a hermaphrodite called in to share his story. It was really interesting. He identified as a male, but he has complete sets of both gender's anatomy, each fully functional. He also asks for advice on his dating life. I found a link to the conversation. I'd post it here, but the language is extremely blunt so some might find it offensive. If anybody wants to hear it, feel free to send me a PM and I'll share the link.
 
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kirmac

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Read my post above. Hermaphrodites do report dissonance among:

1) Their internal, genetically determined gender (chromosomes)
2) The outward physical apperance
3) The functioning status of their reproductive organs (some people have both organs but have only one side functioning, others have fully-functioning reproductive organs of both sexes, although this is rare)
4) Their sense of gender identity
5) Objects of their attraction

Intersexuality is very complex. There are reported cases of intersexuals with all sorts of combinations of the five categories mentioned above. For example, there are people who are genetically female, possess male external gentalia, identify themselves as male but are attracted to other men; there are people who are genetically male, possess genitalia of both sexes and are attracted to female, and so on.
 
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kirmac

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kiwimac,
A hermaphodite is one who has both male and feamle sexual organs or characteristics. That is completly different from sexual attractions, ie who they want to have sex with or who arouses them sexually.

It's not simply about organs. Read post #28 again.
 
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onemorequestion

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I like how this thread has started out, and there has been some great discussion so far from several different perspectives. I really hope this doesn't turn into another "yeah-huh / nah-ah" thread on homosexuality, though. (It might already be there.) :[

You could post a thread on using a hammer for sport, and "certain people" will turn that into a gay versus Christians hysteria fest.
 
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onemorequestion

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Seeing how homosexual individuals and liberal interpreters of the Bible claim that sexual orientation is not a matter of human choice and how the fundamental side disagrees,

Any sexual behavior is a choice. Is it not? We are not a species that goes in heat.

I would like to hear people's honest opinions on what they think about intersexuality (formerly known as hermaphroditism) and its theological implications.

What does "and its theological implications" mean? That some human is born with an incredibly rare birth defect known as hermaphrodtic condition doesn't change theology.

Surely, people don't CHOOSE to be ambiguous before they are born, do they?

One in a quarter million people are born with this defect.

Are the other letters in the LGB (T) thing going to link on to that? Obviously, science can show them what gender they are.

. . . and intersexuality has such a broad ontogeny that you can't just blame the parents either (e.g. some cases stem from GENETIC origins surely outside of human control, such as incomplete chromosome disjunction)

Ontogeny? Hopefully you are not going to recapitulation nonsense.

If God allows intersexuality (an unavoidable congential sexual condition), would it be that much of a stretch to believe that there can possibly be other forms of sexual deviations beyond human control, and homosexuality could be one such thing? (most people who identify themselves with homosexual orientations seem to claim there condition is just that--a congenital phenomenon)

Bingo!!!! The whole of gay theology hinges on a birth defect? Now we know why they attach the T to their agenda.

The incredibly rare infliction of a hermaphrite condition is not going to justify gay behavior in the Church.

I am not claiming that I know the truth. I simply want an honest and open discussion.

Most transexuals (though an amazingly rare gentic defect in humans) are seeking a sex assigment condition. THAT WOULD MEAN, that sexuality is being sought in the correct form.

Actually, transsexualism is an afront to people that promote homosexuality. And as an issue in the Church, if a man is actually, per "his" DNA is a woman, that wants to become a woman so "she" can engage in homosexuality, they would need to be opposed by Bible affirming Christians per scripture.

So for the one in 250,000 that are true hermaphrodites, make a choice of gender, and let's get back to the Bible.

That is no different than for every other believer.
 
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HaloHope

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Disgusted by some of the replies on this thread to be quite honest, just another excuse to bash homosexuality (unrelated to intersexuality AND transexuality).

While it turned out I myself was intersexed for a long time I did believe I was transexual it as only on medical examination that was deemed otherwise.

I will safely say that without a shadow of a doubt feeling you are in the wrong gender is one of the most traumatic and disturbing experiences a body can go through. To wake up with nothing but a deep set urge to harm your body as it feels like someone elses shell is stretched over you makes me sit here still crying at the memories. I was one of the lucky ones, a transexual person who does not undergo treatment to become their mental gender is extremely likely to kill themselves and I firmly believe that every church or individual who "advises" people not to go through with this without any prior medical knowledge on the scenario is responsible if that person ends their life at a later date. I haven't shared this before but a dear freind of mine ended their life after struggling with their gender for religious reasons, and I put their blood on the hands of their fundamentalist Christian family who put the pressure on them. Quite frankly they are scum.

Unless a person themselves has experienced the sheer trauma of being in the wrong body they have absolutely no understanding of the scenario. I'm not talking about kids dressing up in the clothes of the opposite sex or mild confusion. I am talking about when it gets to the point you try to physically carry out self-surgery or peel off your own skin it feels so wrong on you. I've been there, fortunately I got help with changing my body (then it turned out I had XX chromosomes and used to have both sexual organs anyway but it applies to anyone in that scenario) and it is vitally important that people get the same help and support that I did and if their church does not offer that support or condemns and oppose who they are that is not a loving church but one responsible for great harm to others.

Said my peace on the subject, not going to return to this thread but those who condemn here are responsible for directing so much hate at others it's unreal. Sick to my stomach right now.
 
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Avniel

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Disgusted by some of the replies on this thread to be quite honest, just another excuse to bash homosexuality (unrelated to intersexuality AND transexuality).

While it turned out I myself was intersexed for a long time I did believe I was transexual it as only on medical examination that was deemed otherwise.

I will safely say that without a shadow of a doubt feeling you are in the wrong gender is one of the most traumatic and disturbing experiences a body can go through. To wake up with nothing but a deep set urge to harm your body as it feels like someone elses shell is stretched over you makes me sit here still crying at the memories. I was one of the lucky ones, a transexual person who does not undergo treatment to become their mental gender is extremely likely to kill themselves and I firmly believe that every church or individual who "advises" people not to go through with this without any prior medical knowledge on the scenario is responsible if that person ends their life at a later date. I haven't shared this before but a dear freind of mine ended their life after struggling with their gender for religious reasons, and I put their blood on the hands of their fundamentalist Christian family who put the pressure on them. Quite frankly they are scum.

Unless a person themselves has experienced the sheer trauma of being in the wrong body they have absolutely no understanding of the scenario. I'm not talking about kids dressing up in the clothes of the opposite sex or mild confusion. I am talking about when it gets to the point you try to physically carry out self-surgery or peel off your own skin it feels so wrong on you. I've been there, fortunately I got help with changing my body (then it turned out I had XX chromosomes and used to have both sexual organs anyway but it applies to anyone in that scenario) and it is vitally important that people get the same help and support that I did and if their church does not offer that support or condemns and oppose who they are that is not a loving church but one responsible for great harm to others.

Said my peace on the subject, not going to return to this thread but those who condemn here are responsible for directing so much hate at others it's unreal. Sick to my stomach right now.
That sounds like demonic possession to be honest.
 
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godsfoolishness

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One should notice although the thread title is about interSEX the theme of the thread has been about SEXUALITY. The two are not the same.
The two are not the same - but they are related and bring implications to the discussion of sexuality (as a whole - which includeds interSEX).
 
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