Physical Abuse In Marriage.. (2)

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 19, 2010

noroses4u2c said:
Jesus wasn't born until the NT.

If you studied carefully the references to God showing Himself to different OT people, you will see that it was the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity. For example, the fourth person in the fire with the three men in Daniel was not the Father, but the Son of God. Many references to The Angel of the Lord, refer to the Son of God. This shows that the Jesus of the Gospels had a life in glory before He was born as a human being. The Scripture says that the Son of God laid aside His glory to become a human like us, except without sin, so He could be our substitute for sin.

So, this shows that the Jehovah of the OT was actually the Son of God before He was born as Jesus Christ. This is consistent with the Father being a spirit and that no one has ever seen Him.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 19, 2010

Duckybill said:
God gave Satan permission to oppress Job.

Job 1:12 (NKJV)
12 And the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person." So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

There was a definite purpose in that, if you read the context. Ahhh...context is such an educational experience! Saves us making shonky interpretations of Scripture out of context. Now, what you do think God's purpose was in allowing Satan to take Job's material wealth away? Gives you a chance to do a bit of contextual Bible study of the book of Job.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 19, 2010

Duckybill said:
How about where Jesus said:

"Do not resist an evil person"

Chapter and verse?

Duckybill · Jul 19, 2010

Oscarr said:
There was a definite purpose in that, if you read the context. Ahhh...context is such an educational experience! Saves us making shonky interpretations of Scripture out of context. Now, what you do think God's purpose was in allowing Satan to take Job's material wealth away? Gives you a chance to do a bit of contextual Bible study of the book of Job.

You make implications but don't explain them. God uses evil against evil. That's Bible. God used the EVIL Assyrians to punish Israel because of their sins. He can do that and doesn't have to ask anyone's permission. Just as He gave Satan permission to test Job.

Isaiah 10:5-6 (NKJV)
5 "Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hand is My indignation. 6 I will send him against an ungodly nation, And against the people of My wrath I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey, And to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

Duckybill · Jul 19, 2010

Oscarr said:
Chapter and verse?

You aren't familiar with the Sermon on the Mount?

jiminpa · Jul 19, 2010

Duckybill said:
You aren't familiar with the Sermon on the Mount?

We're also familiar with the term prooftexting. The sermon on the mount did not happen in a scriptural vaccuum, and if one were to apply it absolutely and without mercy we would all need to be physically executed for murder. Which moves us back to offering this mercy to the abuser, execution by stoning or leave the marriage voluntarily and by the abused's terms, so that the victim is not bound, (not bound here means not bound), to the marriage.

Duckybill · Jul 19, 2010

jiminpa said:
We're also familiar with the term prooftexting. The sermon on the mount did not happen in a scriptural vaccuum, and if one were to apply it absolutely and without mercy we would all need to be physically executed for murder. Which moves us back to offering this mercy to the abuser, execution by stoning or leave the marriage voluntarily and by the abused's terms, so that the victim is not bound, (not bound here means not bound), to the marriage.

The promises of God are to help us keep from sinning. God GUARANTEED to save our spouses IF WE BELIEVE His promises.

Acts 16:31 (NKJV)
31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

As I said before, MANY disagree on the reasons for divorce to be allowed. How can anyone guarantee someone they are not committing adultery by re-marrying? They cannot. Condoning adultery is a SERIOUS matter with potentially eternal consequences.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Zeena · Jul 19, 2010

Duckybill said:
The promises of God are to help us keep from sinning. God GUARANTEED to save our spouses IF WE BELIEVE His promises.

Acts 16:31 (NKJV)
31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

*Emphasis added*

If this was true in all cases, the Apostle Paul would not have written thus;

1 Cor 7:16
How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Ergo, as pointed out earlier, your definition of saved is in error.

Else, what do you do with the Judgment of God against unbelievers who are 'saved' through their believing wives, ect..?

Are they 'saved' apart from belief in Christ now?

Have you not, in one fell swoop, just emptied the Cross of it's Power?

Duckybill said:
As I said before..
*snip*

And again, Duckybill, we're not talking about remarriage, so please STOP DERAILING THIS THREAD!

The issue is "physical abuse IN marriage", even as stated above..
NOT "physical abuse in re-marriage" as you keep insisting!

I, for ONE, came here to discuss THIS topic.
If you can't focus on THIS topic, create your OWN thread please! :wave:

Zeena · Jul 19, 2010

Duckybill said:
You make implications but don't explain them. God uses evil against evil. That's Bible.

Is not!

Romans 12:17
Recompense to no man evil for evil.

1 Thes 5:15
See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

1 Peter 3:8-11
Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

Duckybill said:
God used the EVIL
*snip*

Chapter and verse please? Or, is it the one you already quoted, which says NO SUCH THING?

Where is it written PRECISELY as you have written it, or do you now suppose to interpret for us?

Where does God inform us that He "USES" evil? :doh:

He DOESN'T, simple as that. :wave:

PROVE otherwise, I dare ya

Duckybill · Jul 20, 2010

Zeena said:
*Emphasis added*

If this was true in all cases, the Apostle Paul would not have written thus;

1 Cor 7:16
How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

I didn't say it's "true in all cases". It's true in all cases for we who believe God's MANY promises.

1 John 3:22 (NKJV)
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

Ergo, as pointed out earlier, your definition of saved is in error.

Else, what do you do with the Judgment of God against unbelievers who are 'saved' through their believing wives, ect..?

Are they 'saved' apart from belief in Christ now?
Have you not, in one fell swoop, just emptied the Cross of it's Power?

God's promises are ONLY for we who believe them.

Mark 11:24 (KJV)
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Duckybill · Jul 20, 2010

Zeena said:
Is not!

Romans 12:17
Recompense to no man evil for evil.

1 Thes 5:15
See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Those commandments are for Christians. God uses evil people against evil. You again missed the point.

Where is it written PRECISELY as you have written it, or do you now suppose to interpret for us?

Where does God inform us that He "USES" evil?
He DOESN'T, simple as that.

PROVE otherwise, I dare ya

Already did. Let's try again. Notice the statement by God "I WILL SEND HIM" referring to the evil Assyrians.

Isaiah 10:5-6 (NKJV)
5 "Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hand is My indignation. 6 I will send him against an ungodly nation, And against the people of My wrath I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey, And to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

Duckybill · Jul 20, 2010

Zeena said:
Where does God inform us that He "USES" evil?
He DOESN'T, simple as that.

PROVE otherwise, I dare ya

How about Deut 28? Give it a try. The curse for being disobedient to God:

Deuteronomy 28:25 (NKJV)
25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies;

Deuteronomy 28:32 (NKJV)
32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long;

Deuteronomy 28:35 (NKJV)
35 The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.

Deuteronomy 28:49-50 (NKJV)
49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young.

Deuteronomy 28:59-61 (NKJV)
59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues--great and prolonged plagues--and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:63 (NKJV)
63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

Deuteronomy 28:66-67 (NKJV)
66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67 In the morning you shall say, 'Oh, that it were evening!' And at evening you shall say, 'Oh, that it were morning!' because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

Yes dear Zeena, the God of the Bible uses evil to accomplish His purposes.

And thus it is written:

Proverbs 1:7 (NKJV)
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction. :wave:

Zeena · Jul 20, 2010

Duckybill said:
How about Deut 28? Give it a try. The curse for being disobedient to God:

Deuteronomy 28:25 (NKJV)
25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies;

Deuteronomy 28:32 (NKJV)
32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long;

Deuteronomy 28:35 (NKJV)
35 The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.

Deuteronomy 28:49-50 (NKJV)
49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young.

Deuteronomy 28:59-61 (NKJV)
59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues--great and prolonged plagues--and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:63 (NKJV)
63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

Deuteronomy 28:66-67 (NKJV)
66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67 In the morning you shall say, 'Oh, that it were evening!' And at evening you shall say, 'Oh, that it were morning!' because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

Yes dear Zeena, the God of the Bible uses evil to accomplish His purposes.

Then why doesn't He ever say so?

A simple word search revealed that the word "use" is NOT in HIS vocabulary :wave:

Duckybill · Jul 20, 2010

Zeena said:
Then why doesn't He ever say so?

A simple word search revealed that the word "use" is NOT in HIS vocabulary

He gave many examples. I've quoted several. And He's not done yet.

Zeena · Jul 20, 2010

Duckybill said:
I didn't say it's "true in all cases". It's true in all cases for we who believe God's MANY promises.

1 John 3:22 (NKJV)
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

So then, when IS it true?

Duckybill said:
God's promises are ONLY for we who believe them.

Mark 11:24 (KJV)
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Eternal Life is not a promise for those who believe?

Hey, can I pray ALL the unbelievers in the world to receive Eternal Life of Christ (what YOU have equated with 'saved') apart from belief in Him?

Do you? Do you pray for everyone, or just those you 'love'? :wave:

*EDIT*
Just noticed this 'other post', so am completing my response here;

Duckybill said:
Those commandments are for Christians. God uses evil people against evil. You again missed the point.
Already did. Let's try again. Notice the statement by God "I WILL SEND HIM" referring to the evil Assyrians.

Isaiah 10:5-6 (NKJV)
5 "Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hand is My indignation. 6 I will send him against an ungodly nation, And against the people of My wrath I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey, And to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

WOW, almost makes me desires to be UN-born again! ^_^

John 3:4
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

So, let me get this straight;

Unbelievers get to go to Heaven when Jesus comes again in Glory becuase of their believing parents or spouses AND they don't have to lift a finger to do the will of God??!?!? :o

Zeena · Jul 20, 2010

Duckybill said:
He gave many examples. I've quoted several. And He's not done yet.

All I need is ONE which actually utilizes the word.. USED/USES/USING!

"God USED evil", to be more precise

Let me guess, you are looking out of your preferred version [NKJV] for it? ^_^

STILL, I tell you, you will not find it!

Duckybill · Jul 20, 2010

Zeena said:
So then, when IS it true?

It's true when a Christian believes it.

Eternal Life is not a promise for those who believe?

It's true for those who believe and obey Him.

Hey, can I pray ALL the unbelievers in the world to receive Eternal Life of Christ (what YOU have equated with 'saved') apart from belief in Him?

Wrong. That's against His will.

Matthew 7:14 (NKJV)
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Do you? Do you pray for everyone, or just those you 'love'?

Whoever I choose to do so.

PreachersWife2004 · Jul 20, 2010

while we know that all things work to God's glory, I do not believe for one second that God uses sin (evil) to chastise us or fight evil.

Evil is the result of sin. God is sinless.

I especially do not believe that God would allow a husband or wife in a marriage to sully the vows simply to chastise the other person. God sets forth how a spouse should act, He certainly isn't going to allow someone to act against that simply to make a point.

Evil is part of our sinful world, but there is never a point when we should accept something evil.

Zeena · Jul 20, 2010

Oh, I see you're on the thread Duckybill..

Just to draw your attention to the edit at the bottom of post # 355..

I didn't think you'd be back this quick! ^_^

Duckybill · Jul 20, 2010

Zeena said:
All I need is ONE which actually utilizes the word.. USED/USES/USING!

You want God to re-write the Bible to please you? Ain't gonna happen.

"God USED evil", to be more precise

To accomplish His purpose. Yes.

Let me guess, you are looking out of your preferred version [NKJV] for it?

Actually it's the same in MANY other versions.

STILL, I tell you, you will not find it!

Already have, many times.

Physical Abuse In Marriage.. (2)

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