Is Modern Marriage a scam?

janman345

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Your comments are quite comical and show the general ignorance when it comes to the wedding (and the whole DJing) industry. Lets take this apart, shall we?


You can't equate a Mobile DJ to an engineer. DJ's have investments, most engineers do not. Mobile DJ's are also business owners. Most engineers work for a company. We also have to pay self-employment taxes on every cent we make, get business licenses, and in some cases, get licensed with the ASCAP/BMI depending on the event. Plus, keep in mind I am a small area DJ. My investment was nothing compared to the investment made by big city DJs. In fact, I was looking to break into the business market with my closest city which means I will need major upgrades to the tune of about $30,000.

Another thing to keep in mind: we don't do this every day. Most DJs are lucky if they have 2 events a month. So that initial investment starts to hurt after a few months when trying to recoup.


A drug? Hardly. It's a major celebration that most people hope only happens once in a life time, so it's not just some day you shrug your shoulders about and say "whatever".

I think it's amusing all you think we do is push speakers. It goes to show you didn't read any of my post or consider it credible information because you're so stuck in your ignorant mentality. That's kinda like saying all a dentist does is scratch metal tools on your teeth. Each is a trade and each requires a set of skills. The difference is that one is more of a need and the other is more of a novelty. Though, our skills I'm sure are "easy" in your mind as well. I would certainly love to see you fix a blown amp before the wedding party comes in though.

Oh, and it's also worth mentioning that I work in the music industry doing production; a lot of which is "pushing speakers" from time to time. I won't even get out of bed for less than $16 an hour for local gigs which are "pushing speakers". Why? Because what I do is a trade and requires a certain set of skills that most people, such as yourself, do not have and there is much more to it than "pushing speakers" that people like yourself fail to see because you're stuck in your own little world where you imagine things aren't as difficult as they seem to be. Also worth mentioning that when I tour, I make significantly more money pushing buttons all day on a "lighting computer thingy".


Wedding DJs and Club DJs are two completely different things (See? Going back to that whole "you don't know what you're talking about" issue). We play different music, have a completely different skill set, use different gear, and most Club DJs don't have nearly as much investment.

And yes, for many people, Mobile DJing is a side job, and for some a hobby. Not a whole lot of people can make a living doing this because there is simply not enough work. However, that doesn't make us any less worth the money and every hobby has a skill set. I suppose with your mentality, web designers, many of which do so as a hobby, should be free because it's a scam and they charge too much money for the work they do. All they do all day is sit in photoshop making a couple images and then piecing together some code, right? Isn't that you're thought process on the whole thing?

I'm thinking you're either bitter from getting a horrible DJ at your own wedding or jealous that people found a way to make money. I'm not sure whether to be amused at your complete ignorance on the topic, or insulted that you seem to think you're so much better than people who DJ because we're all "scammers". Or maybe I should just be offended by your atrocious spelling skills. My suggestion to you is to actually learn about what you're debating before opening your mouth... or typing on a keyboard.

The city DJ's that I know of charge 5k a gig so even a 30k investment would be recouped in 6 gigs, most other professions dont recoup their sunk costs in such short order, plus they are likely working a day job on top of that. Yea when you invest 30k and you are inbetween gig 0 and gig 6 it might hurt a little but most buisnesses are in the red for alot longer than that. Thats why I consider it a scam, then once your on your 7th gig your at ~ 100$/hr lol. As far as lincences I dont know how much they cost but I cant imagine they are even 4 figures, I guess if the licenceing fee was 100k then I could see your point.

16-20$/hr is not unreasonable but trying to recoup your sunk costs on such few gigs is where the scam is. I know my posts seem offensive but there really is no way around that when a scammer is trying to justify his scam, if people are willing to pay it then its shame on them not on you but your still a scammer, like these shaddy insurnace sales men that pray on old women, its a lagit legal buisness with buisness licences and all that does not mean its not a scam.
 
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NiobiumTragedy

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The city DJ's that I know of charge 5k a gig so even a 30k investment would be recouped in 6 gigs, most other professions dont recoup their sunk costs in such short order, plus they are likely working a day job on top of that. Yea when you invest 30k and you are inbetween gig 0 and gig 6 it might hurt a little but most buisnesses are in the red for alot longer than that. Thats why I consider it a scam, then once your on your 7th gig your at ~ 100$/hr lol. As far as lincences I dont know how much they cost but I cant imagine they are even 4 figures, I guess if the licenceing fee was 100k then I could see your point.

16-20$/hr is not unreasonable but trying to recoup your sunk costs on such few gigs is where the scam is. I know my posts seem offensive but there really is no way around that when a scammer is trying to justify his scam, if people are willing to pay it then its shame on them not on you but your still a scammer, like these shaddy insurnace sales men that pray on old women, its a lagit legal buisness with buisness licences and all that does not mean its not a scam.
I have never heard of a DJ charging 5k a gig and there are literally thousands of DJs in our network. Most high end city DJs charge around 2k and you get the works with that. We're talking some high end production and the best equipment money can buy, so I'm calling bull on the cost. I'd be interested to see the sources if they are DJ's you know of.

I'm also going to pass these posts on to my fellow DJs. I'm sure they will get a kick and a few rants over them.
 
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janman345

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I have never heard of a DJ charging 5k a gig and there are literally thousands of DJs in our network. Most high end city DJs charge around 2k and you get the works with that. We're talking some high end production and the best equipment money can buy, so I'm calling bull on the cost. I'd be interested to see the sources if they are DJ's you know of.

I'm also going to pass these posts on to my fellow DJs. I'm sure they will get a kick and a few rants over them.

Well thats what they charge, I dont want to site anything as to give away pieces of my identity. However it does not sound like you are an extortion artist DJ but they are out there.
 
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BeautifulDestiny09

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let's forget about divorce stats for a minute, because marriage is SERIOUSLY what you make of it. if you believe modern marriage is a scam, don't get married. it's quite that simple.

That being said, as far as costs and weddings and all that are concerned...I've personally come to the conclusion that weddings are for EVERYONE else. Not to say the groom and bride don't want weddings, but it's also so that people you love can come and wish you well etc.
I'm with the poster who said get situated, elope, and use wedding money for something else like a downpayment, paying off debt, etc...
No offense to those whose families can afford weddings...I know mine can't, so the wedding costs fall on my fiance' and i...that being said, we're just getting married by the justice of the peace and then having a ceremony later on for the family...
oh and FYI, affordable yet beautiful rings are possible. My ring costs less than $200, and my FH, same with his...you can start out simple and upgrade later...thats what anniversaries are for :-D
 
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xDenax

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That being said, as far as costs and weddings and all that are concerned...I've personally come to the conclusion that weddings are for EVERYONE else. Not to say the groom and bride don't want weddings, but it's also so that people you love can come and wish you well etc.

This was how it was for us as neither of us really wanted a wedding. It ended up being fairly simple but still nice enough. I bought a dress that was on sale at the end of the season (how scandalous!!!!) so I got a $5K designer gown for $1000, no veil. We had the ceremony and reception in the same location so we didn't deal with a limo. We had an awesome lady make a cake for way less than it would cost at a bakery. Since we wanted something simple we didn't need a DJ (we didn't dance) nor did we have alcohol. We did pay quite a lot for our photographer and the rights to our photos. So for us (well, my parents paid for the wedding):

Engagement Ring: $5K
Wedding: About $6K
Honeymoon: $0 (no time to go on a honeymoon)
 
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BeautifulDestiny09

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This was how it was for us as neither of us really wanted a wedding.

nice that your parents paid for it! thats certainly a blessing! I actually wanted a wedding, so did my FH but neither of us can afford it...then people actually offered to chip in, but then the more ppl who chip in, the more who end up being invited to the wedding. It became much too stressful for us...so down to the justice of the peace we go and then we'll save up for a ceremony later on!
 
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NiobiumTragedy

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Well thats what they charge, I dont want to site anything as to give away pieces of my identity. However it does not sound like you are an extortion artist DJ but they are out there.
How would giving me DJ websites you have zero connection to give away your identity. Yah, I'm calling bull on your whole post. ^_^
 
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xDenax

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nice that your parents paid for it!

My mother wanted it. If she hadn't, we wouldn't have have had one. Technically my Grandmother paid because she had given the money to my mother previously.
 
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Windmill

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As someone who has recently recommitted their life to Jesus Christ (and saving sex for marriage), I can't help but feel that the engagement process and modern marriage is a let down for Christian men.

The average cost of an engagement ring is $3-4k.
The average cost of a wedding is $15-20k.
The average cost of a honeymoon is $3400 (according to Forbes).

So far that's 21k to 28k before you get to play house.

I could think of a whole hosts of things I'd rather spend the money on:

New Car
House Down Payment
Travel/Extended Honeymoon
Maybe take more time off from work when your a newlywed with all that money you didn't waste on a wedding.


AND add to that, a 50% chance of divorce---this makes for a definite suckers bet.
Nothing is a scam. Its all your choice.

Christmas is also a "scam". Except, you can choose to ignore it and not buy presents for people and not waste money on useless junk.

Of course, here is the thing. You're treating marriage like a business proposition. You're looking at this from a budget perspective. If marriage is going to cost me $21,000-$28,000 to get set up, with a 50% chance for divorce, this is a lot of money I am risking.

Except, here is the clincher. If you're viewing it this way, your relationship has serious issues. If you see breaking up a possiblity beyond extreme circumstances, then your relationship is not a particularly strong one. This shouldn't be an issue for you if you have an amazing relationship. And unless you're both entering into this openly from a business perspective, such as an agreed marriage, then I don't think you should be marrying each other.

Of course, if you have a deep, loving transcendent relationship, then you should not need all of these frills. These frills are required for shallow people who are following a ceremony. If you have a deep, caring, loving, transcendent relationship, then you should be able to speak to your partner openly about how you want to set aside money more wisely.

I also don't see how this is just a scam for the "male". Its a scam for the woman too. The only expense you listed there that the woman doesn't partake in is the ring. She shares the vast majority, that being, the cost of the wedding and the honeymoon.
 
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mattybartholomew

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Of course, here is the thing. You're treating marriage like a business proposition. You're looking at this from a budget perspective.

Every relationship boils down to business( an exchange of value).

If marriage is going to cost me $21,000-$28,000 to get set up, with a 50% chance for divorce, this is a lot of money I am risking.

Correct



Except, here is the clincher. If you're viewing it this way, your relationship has serious issues. If you see breaking up a possiblity beyond extreme circumstances, then your relationship is not a particularly strong one.

If as an adult you don't see it is possible that your spouse could divorce you down the road, then your living in fantasy land.

To think that your "love" is stronger than everyone else's is a pretty arrogant way to think.

This shouldn't be an issue for you if you have an amazing relationship. And unless you're both entering into this openly from a business perspective, such as an agreed marriage, then I don't think you should be marrying each other.

Marriage is a business relationship.

Why do you get married as a Christian?

For a guy, it's to have sex primarily.

So in exchange for being in a relationship where I get to have sex with a female in a monogamous setting on a regular basis, she get's the comfort of an exclusive relationship.


I also don't see how this is just a scam for the "male". Its a scam for the woman too.

Maybe in reference to a wedding, but for marriage as a whole? I think not.

Western Marriages are a losing proposition for Christian Men. But what are we to do? If we just want to cohabitate and have a simple get together celebrating our decision to commit to a life together, we are shamed and guilt tripped by the church.
 
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ImperialPhantom

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Why do you get married as a Christian?

For a guy, it's to have sex primarily.

So in exchange for being in a relationship where I get to have sex with a female in a monogamous setting on a regular basis, she get's the comfort of an exclusive relationship.

I'd stop listening to Tom Leykis reruns if I were you. You sound like a real ball of sunshine - your whole thread smacks of male victim mentality. Sure, the average wedding, the average dress, cake, etc, but why do YOU have to keep up with the average? Find a wife who wants what you want. I did, we didn't spend anywhere close to 21,000 on our wedding, we kept it small and simple and stressfree, close family and friends only. Neither of us have regretted it one bit, and we got off on the right foot by not blowing through a year's worth of an average middle-class salary on one day.
 
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Dent

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A little late to this party, but I do not think that the engagement process/wedding is a scam. I say that because I believe that you make of this experience what you want. It is up to you and your spouse to structure the entire process to how you wish to meet the demands placed on the two of you from four core areas (in no particular order): 1. The couple getting married, 2. The family and friends, 3.Socioeconomic status (sounds so clinical but I could not think of something better), 4. Religious/State expectations. It can be difficult, but never impossible. While I do not believe the process should be HARD, I am also not to sure if it should be EASY. It takes time, effort, and passion to plan a wedding. Sadly, I think this too often falls to the bride exclusively.

As to the cost, it can be (very) expensive, but it does not need to be. However, past experience has taught me that you get what you pay for. Please do not misinterpret me as saying that a wedding is better by virtue of how much is spent. I believe quite the opposite. What I mean to say is that good people/companies have a cost associate with them that is hard to get around. If you want to work with good people you have to accept that it is going to cost something (it should). You need to have your priorities and work from there.

Finally, I would like to comment on the ‘just one day’ posts. I completely disagree – it is much more than a day. It is the days, weeks, and months of planning, preparing, and working together as a couple and family before the actual day . Then there may be the engagement party and then the rehearsal dinner. Then there is the actual day. Then there is the day after/gift opening and all of the thank you’s that need to go out. Plus, there are always the days, weeks, months, and years of memories, pictures, and stories that you have going forward (some good and some bad). I don’t, for one second, believe it is just one day.
 
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Beauty4Ashes

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A little late to this party, but I do not think that the engagement process/wedding is a scam. I say that because I believe that you make of this experience what you want. It is up to you and your spouse to structure the entire process to how you wish to meet the demands placed on the two of you from four core areas (in no particular order): 1. The couple getting married, 2. The family and friends, 3.Socioeconomic status (sounds so clinical but I could not think of something better), 4. Religious/State expectations. It can be difficult, but never impossible. While I do not believe the process should be HARD, I am also not to sure if it should be EASY. It takes time, effort, and passion to plan a wedding. Sadly, I think this too often falls to the bride exclusively.

As to the cost, it can be (very) expensive, but it does not need to be. However, past experience has taught me that you get what you pay for. Please do not misinterpret me as saying that a wedding is better by virtue of how much is spent. I believe quite the opposite. What I mean to say is that good people/companies have a cost associate with them that is hard to get around. If you want to work with good people you have to accept that it is going to cost something (it should). You need to have your priorities and work from there.

Finally, I would like to comment on the ‘just one day’ posts. I completely disagree – it is much more than a day. It is the days, weeks, and months before the actual day of planning, preparing, and working together as a couple and family. Then there may be the engagement party and then the rehearsal dinner. Then there is the actual day. Then there is the day after/gift opening and all of the thank you’s that need to go out. Plus, there are always the days, weeks, months, and years of memories, pictures, and stories that you have going forward (some good and some bad). I don’t, for one second, believe it is just one day.

very good post :thumbsup:
 
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Girlee

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There are a lot of things in this life that are "just one day".
A child's birth. Graduation. a family get together--etc etc.
Which makes the need to prepare and make those days special even more important.
Because they are "just one day". "ONLY one day" A day that can never be repeated.
I'm not saying you have to spend a bunch of money--but it's far from "just one day"
 
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teddyv

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We did our wedding - a standing reception after the service, a full dinner and evening reception for about 125, and our honeymoon - for something like 15K. We were blessed with many volunteers and gifted people who graciously donated time and abilities (music, emcee, flowers, entertainment, etc) as a gift to us which was more personal and memorable than a set of plates.:)
 
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BeautifulDestiny09

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My mother wanted it. If she hadn't, we wouldn't have have had one. Technically my Grandmother paid because she had given the money to my mother previously.

ahhh I see. My friends had a similar situation...their parents wanted the nice big wedding...so they paid for it! I hope to be able to do that for my kids someday...HOWEVER if they want to just elope and save money for bigger things (i.e. house, paying off school debt, etc) then I'm all for it...
 
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Beauty4Ashes

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Well now that I'm engaged (as of Saturday :D), wanted to add that we already have a lot of people helping with things that will cut back a lot on costs.

I'm making my own dress for starts.

I have a good friend that operated his own dj business for 10 years who is volunteering to help with djing and be the mc. My fiance already has a microphone, speakers, and mixing board so we don't need to rent anything. Will be using my ipod.

We'll probably ask the sound guy from our church to also help out with the reception at a different location. I'm pretty sure he will.

My aunt does flowers professionally and will be helping with that.

We are asking a friend of ours who is a professional photographer to do our photos, hopefully for a friend discount.

My friend who recently got married is going to ask her friend who did her hair for her wedding (she has her own home business doing hair) if she can help us out.

I have another friend that does makeup in school that is coming to the wedding.

Then we have plenty of musican friends as well.

There are tons of ways to save money. I don't think marriage is a scam. I think it's the most wonderful blessing and I look forward to it. I admit the planning can be very overwhelming, especially in a 3 month period but it's a blessing regardless.

Oh and we could possibly afford it even without the extra help but there are more important things to put the money towards. :)
 
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Luther073082

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actually luther, the national marriage averadge is 50% divorce, so you DO havea 50% chance ofgetting divorced, sorry, it's a fact, every marriage, including mine, has a 50% chance of ending, so you need to rely on Jesus to makeup for the 50%

Not every marriage has the same odds when you look at other factors though. That national average includes people who get married and get divorced the next day. That national average includes people who got drunk, woke up one morning and decided that getting married was a bad idea. It also includes people who where 18 years old and ran off and got married without even knowing what they where doing.

It shows a complete inability to understand statistics to not be able to understand how the probability of something could be one number for the general population but a completly different number.

The fact is that several factors have been shown to significantly increase a couple's chances. If both of your parents are still married, your chances go up significantly. If you have an above average income, that improves the chances of that individual marriage. If you have a college education that improves those chances. If you go to church on a weekly basis, it also improves the chances of your marriage. Also getting pre-marital counciling improves the chances of a successful marriage. They can even track the stats based on what church denomination you belong to. (Lutherans have one of the lowest numbers)

http://www.divorcereform.org/mel/rbaptisthigh.html

Just because the national average is at 50% doesn't mean every individual marriage is at a 50% chance of divorce. Lots of marriages are at even higher rates of divorce. . . People married before the age of 20 for example divorce at a rate

Here is an important factor also, age at which you get married.

According to this website

Correlations of Divorce rates with other factors

The population of people who marry at age 25 or over get divorced at a rate of 24%
 
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Rebekka

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To add on what Luther said, divorce rates are higher for divorced people. ;) I mean, if you've been married before, the chance that your second (or third, or fourth, etc) marriage will fail as well is higher than for first marriages.

Over here (Europe), 1 in 3 marriages end in divorce, but (much) less than 1 in 3 first marriages do.


(I wonder if age is a factor in our lower divorce rates, as people on average get married in their late twenties over here.)
 
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