Hi Bible2,
Ephesians 4:8 and Acts 1:11 don't have to be disassociated; they can refer to the same post-resurrection ascension of Jesus. In the original Greek, the Greek-passive-voice ascension in Acts 1:11 can be taken together with the Greek-active-voice ascension in Ephesians 4:8 to mean that Jesus ascended after his resurrection by both an external power and his own power working together at the same time. An analogy of this would be a man walking up an ascending escalator: both the man actively employing his own power to walk up the steps, and the man passively allowing the escalator to move those steps upward, are together responsible for the man's ascension.
Your escalator theory isn't supported by scripture. In each case where the mechanics of Christ's ascension are described, he ascends via an external power only.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Your "active voice" argument is simply a slight of hand trick. "Anabaino" simply means "to go up".
How the subject "went up" isn't provided in the context of John 3:13 or Ephesians 4:8, so the "active voice" verb is employed because the subject is doing the "going up".
A simple example of this would be: "I went to the store". Because
how I went to the store is not specified in the context, the verb "went" is classified in the 'active voice' and the
how remains ambiguous.
But you would argue from the simple sentence "I went to the store" that the only way I could get to the store was "under my own power" - which is not true.
If an "active voice" verb that self-defined the mechanics of the trip to the store was used, such as "I walked to the store", then you could draw definite conclusions about "under which power" the action was taken. "Went" is not self-defining in this way, and neither is "ascend". You can "ascend", which simply means to "go up", under your own power or by way of an external force.
When the same sentence is constructed with additional information, and the
how I went to the store is provided in the context either the verb "went" is retained if in fact I did go to the store "under my own power", or changed if I arrived at the store via an external power. The example would be..
I got in my car and went to the store. Active
I got in my buddies car and was taken to the store. Passive
Both the sentences "I went to the store" and "I got in my buddies car and was taken to the store" are describing the same event. "I went to the store" does not necessarily mean that I went "under my own power", although it can. "I got in my buddies car and was taken to the store" can only mean that went to the store "by an external power".
This is why the "active voice" verb 'anabaino' in used in John 3:13 and Ephesians 4:8 and Luke 24:51, Mark 16:19, and Acts 1:9, 11 use "passive voice" verbs. Because Luke, Mark, and Acts provide the mechanics of the 'going up' and John and Ephesians do not. But they are all referring to the same event. When it is clear from the context that Christ ascended via an external power, the "passive voice" verbs are applied. When it is not clear from the context by what power Christ ascended, the "active voice" or even "middle voice" verb (1Peter 3:22) is used and the power provided for the ascension is ambiguous.
You wouldn't analyze the two sentences describing the same trip - "I went to the store" and "I got in my buddies car and was taken to the store" - and come to the conclusion that this trip to the store involved some weird, hybrid self-powered/externally powered action. You would say that the verb in the first sentence can be either self powered or externally powered whereas the verb in the second sentence can be only externally powered. And conclude that the trip was externally powered.
To put it simply, your argument is flawed at it's core because you are essentially asserting that "anabaino" can only mean to go upwards under your own power. I'm not able to find a scriptural example of 'anabaino" being used in the sense of going upwards under an external power, but it certainly can be used that way. However, 'katabaino' which is also used in John 3:13, and means the exact opposite of "anabaino" is used in scripture in a way that illustrates my point.
In Luke 22:44 when Christ's sweat is "falling down" to the ground, 'katabaino' (active voice) is used. Here, to be consistent in your argument, you would have to say that the sweat was going downward "under it's own power" because the verb used is "active voice". But in reality, the descent of the sweat downward is due to the external force of gravity, it is not a self-powered descent.
Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down (*katabaino) to the ground.
G2597
καταβαίνω
katabainō
kat-ab-ah'ee-no
From G2596 and the base of G939; to descend (literally or figuratively): - come (get, go, step) down, descend, fall (down).
Also, when Jesus said that no man but he had ascended into heaven (John 3:13), he must have meant that no man but he had ascended into heaven in a way that involved his own power, because otherwise Jesus would have been contradicting, for example, 2 Kings 2:11, which explicitly says that Elijah ascended "into heaven" by an external power.
Or it could be you are misinterpreting the events of 2 Kings 2:11.
I appreciated the discussion Bible2, and I believe that we've both had ample opportunity to make our cases regarding John 3:13. So I will leave you with the last word.
God bless you,
crush
