Intelligent design to be taught in Queensland schools

Dark_Lite

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After reading a thread about this in one of the Congregation forums, I knew this topic would go over oh so well here!

Intelligent design to be taught in Queensland schools under national curriculum | Courier Mail

In Queensland schools, creationism will be offered for discussion in the subject of ancient history, under the topic of "controversies".

[...]

"It's opening up opportunities for debate and discussion, not to push a particular view," Ms Bishop said. Classroom debate about issues encouraged critical thinking – an important tool, she said.

At least they're keeping it out of the science classroom, but it doesn't sound like they're including it in an ancient history course with the right intention of simply studying the beliefs of ancient peoples.
 

Split Rock

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After reading a thread about this in one of the Congregation forums, I knew this topic would go over oh so well here!

Intelligent design to be taught in Queensland schools under national curriculum | Courier Mail



At least they're keeping it out of the science classroom, but it doesn't sound like they're including it in an ancient history course with the right intention of simply studying the beliefs of ancient peoples.

Serves Australia right for giving us Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis! :p
 
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I really wish the world's religions would be taught in a general, albeit neutral, history course.

The worlds major religions have some beautiful artwork, poetry, and history that we are depriving our children of. Althought I will oppose vehemently of it being taught in science class as truth.
 
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Cabal

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Serves Australia right for giving us Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis! :p

That's something I've wondered - you never seem to hear about hardcore YECcers like Ham having a go at people who accept ID. Surely the bulk of ID supporters are old earth creationists?

This is an inconsistency I often notice - but then again, what do you expect from this lot.

Anyway, Queensland education system fail.

If they want to teach ID, they should teach all the popular alternatives. Like Christian YECism. And Muslim YECism. Especially Muslim YECism. Then we'll see how much they like "teach the controversy".
 
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Split Rock

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That's something I've wondered - you never seem to hear about hardcore YECcers like Ham having a go at people who accept ID. Surely the bulk of ID supporters are old earth creationists?

This is an inconsistency I often notice - but then again, what do you expect from this lot.

Anyway, Queensland education system fail.

If they want to teach ID, they should teach all the popular alternatives. Like Christian YECism. And Muslim YECism. Especially Muslim YECism. Then we'll see how much they like "teach the controversy".
They do sometimes say they don't like ID, since it takes God out of the equation. However, YECs are willing (or were willing) to ride the coat tails of the I.D. movement if doing so helped to waterdown the teaching of evilution. Going after I.D. proponents and OECs afterward would be the next step in the Holy Crusade against human thought.
 
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Darkness27

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I've talked with some YECs who say that they are YEC and accept ID as the scientific approach from their prospective. So YEC is the faith, ID is the methodology and 'scientific' model they propose to science and in the science classroom.

From what I've seen YEC has no problem with OEC, they are still creationists and they seem to be closely knit more so than TE and agnostic/atheist. So I doubt the purging crusade will include them, if it ever gets that far.
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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So from the looks of it, its scheduled for next year and the teachers are acting against it?

Still though its kinda funny I wonder how they will teach this. ID was designed to appeal to the laypublic under the assumption nobody looks too closely at what they are claiming.
Which pretty much means the uneducated and now those in the process of being educated. Get em while their young right?

That said i wouldnt mind actually attending a class to see this in action.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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I've talked with some YECs who say that they are YEC and accept ID as the scientific approach from their prospective. So YEC is the faith, ID is the methodology and 'scientific' model they propose to science and in the science classroom.

Given that most IDers accept common descent, I'd say these YECs have no idea what ID actually entails.
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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At least they're keeping it out of the science classroom
Intelligent Design should be taught in mathematics class and Darwinism should be taught in pseudoscience or theology class.

but it doesn't sound like they're including it in an ancient history course with the right intention of simply studying the beliefs of ancient peoples.
Anything would be an improvement over the Darwinist thought dictatorship that we have now where censorship and thought suppression = debate.
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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Given that most IDers accept common descent, I'd say these YECs have no idea what ID actually entails.
Well thats the funny thing. ID to creationists essentially is the same thing as "Kinds" they have no idea what it means and make it up as they go along and can never be wrong about it. Ive come to find this out when talking with YECs about ID.
Im almost ashamed to say it surprised me at the time.:doh:
 
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Doveaman

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ID to creationists essentially is the same thing as "Kinds" they have no idea what it means
Do you know what it means?
Ive come to find this out when talking with YECs about ID.
OK, then tell us what it means, because I'm not too sure what it means. Help me.
smiley-sad017.gif
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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Do you know what it means?
OK, then tell us what it means, because I'm not too sure what it means. Help me.
smiley-sad017.gif

Well alright. It is used in statements expressing an action, condition, fact, circumstance, or situation without reference to an agent
 
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Intelligent Design should be taught in mathematics class and Darwinism should be taught in pseudoscience or theology class.

Millions of biologists who use the theory of evolution in their research would disagree. Research in the biological sciences would come to a screeching halt without the theory. How else are we to make sense of the terabytes of genomic information pouring in?

Can you name a single scientist using ID or creationism to produce original research that is published in peer reviewed scientific journals? I can't.

Anything would be an improvement over the Darwinist thought dictatorship that we have now where censorship and thought suppression = debate.

How can you censor a complete absence of science from the ID and creationist movement? It is not the fault of science that they fail to produce anything resembling scientific research.
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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Millions of biologists who use the theory of evolution in their research would disagree.
Of course they would: they are a herd of chattel who engage in lemminglike groupthink.

Research in the biological sciences would come to a screeching halt without the theory.
LOL. You say that like it's a bad thing.

"Well, it [Intelligent Design] could come about in the folowing way, it could be that at some earlier time somewhere in the universe a civilisation ... [came] to a very high level of technology and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Now that is a possibility, an intriguing possibility, and I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry and molecular biology you might find a signature of some sort of designer. And that designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe." -- Richard Dawkins, atheist preacher, 2008

How else are we to make sense of the terabytes of genomic information pouring in?
It's called Intelligent Design.

"All things were mixed up together, then Mind came and arranged them all in distinct order." -- Anaxagoras, philosopher, 5th century B.C.

"Then I heard someone who had a book of Anaxagoras, as he said, out of which he read that mind was the disposer and cause of all, and I was quite delighted at the notion of this, which appeared admirable, and I said to myself; If mind is the disposer, mind will dispose all for the best, and put each particular in the best place ...." -- Plato, philosopher, Phaedo, 360 B.C.

"... nor again could it be right to entrust so great a matter [nature] to spontaneity and chance. When one man said, then, that reason was present -- as in animals, so throughout nature -- as the cause of order and of all arrangement, he seemed like a sober man in contrast with the random talk of his predecessors. We know that Anaxagoras certainly adopted these views, but Hermotimus of Clazomenae is credited with expressing them earlier." -- Aristotle, Metaphysics, Book I, 350 B.C.

"And the existence of male and female, and the desire of each for conjunction, and the power of using the parts which are constructed, do not even these declare the workman? Who made these things or devised them? 'No one,' you say. Oh, amazing shamelessness and stupidity!" -- Epictetus, philosopher, Discourses, Book I, 1st century

Can you name a single scientist using ID or creationism to produce original research that is published in peer reviewed scientific journals? I can't.
I can.

Crick, F.H.C., and Orgel, L.E., Directed Panspermia, Icarus, Volume 19, Pages 341-346, 1973

Axe, D.D., Estimating the Prevalence of Protein Sequences Adopting Functional Enzyme Folds, Journal of Molecular Biology, Volume 341, Issue 5, Pages 1295-1315, Aug 2004

Behe, M.J., and Snoke, D.W., Simulating Evolution By Gene Duplication of Protein Features that Require Multiple Amino Acid Residues, Protein Science, Volume 13, Number 10, Pages 2651-2664, Oct 2004

Lönnig, W-E., Dynamic Genomes Morphological Stasis and the Origin of Irreducible Complexity, Dynamical Genetics, Pages 101-119, 2005

Couvreur, P., and Vauthier, C., Nanotechnology: Intelligent Design to Treat Complex Diseases, Pharmaceutical Research, Volume 23, Number 7, Jul 2006

Meyer, S.C., The Origin Of Biological Information And The Higher Taxonomic Categories, Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, Volume 117, Number 2, Pages 213-239, May 2007

Marks, R.J., and Dembski, W.A., Conservation of Information in Search: Measuring the Cost of Success, Systems Man and Cybernetics: Part A Systems and Humans, IEEE Transactions, Volume 39, Issue 5, Pages 1051-1061, Sep 2009

How can you censor a complete absence of science from the ID and creationist movement?
You're right: it's pretty hard to censor something that has already been suppressed.

It is not the fault of science that they fail to produce anything resembling scientific research.
See the peer-reviewed science you've been deliberately kept unaware of posted above.
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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Of course they would: they are a herd of chattel who engage in lemminglike groupthink.
Oh the irony.
LOL. You say that like it's a bad thing.
Vaccines going bye bye would be pretty bad
"Well, it [Intelligent Design] could come about in the folowing way, it could be that at some earlier time somewhere in the universe a civilisation ... [came] to a very high level of technology and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Now that is a possibility, an intriguing possibility, and I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry and molecular biology you might find a signature of some sort of designer. And that designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe." -- Richard Dawkins, atheist preacher, 2008
Evidence that one of the worlds most famous scientists and atheists has no problem considering the idea, should tell you that the only problem is that there isnt any evidence for it. Not that they arent willing to consider it.
It's called Intelligent Design.

"All things were mixed up together, then Mind came and arranged them all in distinct order." -- Anaxagoras, philosopher, 5th century B.C.

"Then I heard someone who had a book of Anaxagoras, as he said, out of which he read that mind was the disposer and cause of all, and I was quite delighted at the notion of this, which appeared admirable, and I said to myself; If mind is the disposer, mind will dispose all for the best, and put each particular in the best place ...." -- Plato, philosopher, Phaedo, 360 B.C.

"... nor again could it be right to entrust so great a matter [nature] to spontaneity and chance. When one man said, then, that reason was present -- as in animals, so throughout nature -- as the cause of order and of all arrangement, he seemed like a sober man in contrast with the random talk of his predecessors. We know that Anaxagoras certainly adopted these views, but Hermotimus of Clazomenae is credited with expressing them earlier." -- Aristotle, Metaphysics, Book I, 350 B.C.

"And the existence of male and female, and the desire of each for conjunction, and the power of using the parts which are constructed, do not even these declare the workman? Who made these things or devised them? 'No one,' you say. Oh, amazing shamelessness and stupidity!" -- Epictetus, philosopher, Discourses, Book I, 1st century
Noticed how all those quotes where from people before evolution was accepted as a theory? Im sure we could do the same trick with flatearth quotes from famous people before it was accepted the earth was round* (I know its not technically round, but i cannot think of the proper word)
I can.

Crick, F.H.C., and Orgel, L.E., Directed Panspermia, Icarus, Volume 19, Pages 341-346, 1973

Axe, D.D., Estimating the Prevalence of Protein Sequences Adopting Functional Enzyme Folds, Journal of Molecular Biology, Volume 341, Issue 5, Pages 1295-1315, Aug 2004

Behe, M.J., and Snoke, D.W., Simulating Evolution By Gene Duplication of Protein Features that Require Multiple Amino Acid Residues, Protein Science, Volume 13, Number 10, Pages 2651-2664, Oct 2004

Lönnig, W-E., Dynamic Genomes Morphological Stasis and the Origin of Irreducible Complexity, Dynamical Genetics, Pages 101-119, 2005

Couvreur, P., and Vauthier, C., Nanotechnology: Intelligent Design to Treat Complex Diseases, Pharmaceutical Research, Volume 23, Number 7, Jul 2006
Nanotechnology, the identiy of the mysterious Intelligent Designer is uncovered! it was us all along! (Shocking)
Meyer, S.C., The Origin Of Biological Information And The Higher Taxonomic Categories, Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, Volume 117, Number 2, Pages 213-239, May 2007

Marks, R.J., and Dembski, W.A., Conservation of Information in Search: Measuring the Cost of Success, Systems Man and Cybernetics: Part A Systems and Humans, IEEE Transactions, Volume 39, Issue 5, Pages 1051-1061, Sep 2009


You're right: it's pretty hard to censor something that has already been suppressed.


See the peer-reviewed science you've been deliberately kept unaware of posted above.

Seriously is your position so flimsy the best you can do is grab any published article with the word design in it and present it as proving your point? Its not even about the same subject.
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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Vaccines going bye bye would be pretty bad
Vaccines have nothing to do with evolution.

Vaccines were used in 1796 beginning with Edward Jenner's smallpox vaccine.

On The Origin of Species wasn't published until 1859.

Therefore vaccines were successfully developed for 63 years without evolution.

Evidence that one of the worlds most famous scientists and atheists has no problem considering the idea, should tell you that the only problem is that there isnt any evidence for it. Not that they arent willing to consider it.
He regrets saying it.

Noticed how all those quotes where from people before evolution was accepted as a theory?
Accepted by whom? I certainly don't accept evolution as a theory. At best it's a falsified hypothesis.

YouTube - Dr. David Berlinski: Math and Darwinian Evolution (Part 2)
Im sure we could do the same trick with flatearth quotes from famous people before it was accepted the earth was round* (I know its not technically round, but i cannot think of the proper word)
Good luck with that.

It has been known since remotest antiquity that the Earth is a sphere.

"In the first place, the earth, when looked at from above, is like one of those balls which have leather coverings in twelve pieces, and is of divers colors...." -- Plato, philosopher, Phaedo, 360 B.C.

"Either then the earth is spherical or it is at least naturally spherical." -- Aristotle, philosopher, On The Heavens, Book II, 350 B.C.

Nanotechnology, the identiy of the mysterious Intelligent Designer is uncovered! it was us all along! (Shocking)
:thumbsup:

Seriously is your position so flimsy the best you can do is grab any published article with the word design in it and present it as proving your point? Its not even about the same subject.
You claim Intelligent Design has nothing to do with Intelligent Design?

What about the other ID articles you are deliberately ignoring?
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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Vaccines have nothing to do with evolution.

Vaccines were used in 1796 beginning with Edward Jenner's smallpox vaccine.

On The Origin of Species wasn't published until 1859.
Its possible to have a working knowledge of something without knowing all the details. Fire is a nice example.

But without the theory evolution vaccines would stop working as the virus becomes resistant through evolution.
He regrets saying it.
If that is so its most likely because people like yourself shamelessly quotemine him to either redicule or support a wackjob idea.
Accepted by whom? I certainly don't accept evolution as a theory. At best it's a falsified hypothesis.
By everybody that isnt terrified of hell as a result of accepting evolution. Though id be willing to extent that to anybody who is not willfully/forcefully kept ignorant by their indoctrination.
You claim Intelligent Design has nothing to do with Intelligent Design?
I claim that what those articles talk about is not the ID you are trying to argue for. It is proper scientists talking about a entirely different thing using the words Intelligent design in a sentence not as a theory name.
Its like talking about Toyota as a car then drag in papers about some japanese fellow called Toyota and claim they are the same thing.
You know that aswell as I do.

Though I like the directed transperma one. but it still does not sugjest that all life on earth was guided to its present form by a ID rather then natural selection and random mutation.
In a nutshell its a competing theory of abiogenesis not evolution.(I might aswell not write that as you will not accept that fact.)
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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Its possible to have a working knowledge of something without knowing all the details. Fire is a nice example.
I don't understand your example. Many modern evolutionists have no working knowledge of fire.

But without the theory evolution vaccines would stop working as the virus becomes resistant through evolution.
How come vaccines worked for 63 years without evolutionary so-called "theory"?

By everybody that isnt terrified of hell as a result of accepting evolution. Though id be willing to extent that to anybody who is not willfully/forcefully kept ignorant by their indoctrination.
People are terrified of evolution because it's indoctrination.

Though I like the directed transperma one. but it still does not sugjest that all life on earth was guided to its present form by a ID rather then natural selection and random mutation.

In a nutshell its a competing theory of abiogenesis not evolution.(I might aswell not write that as you will not accept that fact.)
In my view, Directed Panspermia is the opposite of abiogenesis.
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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Just for fun about the vid..

Evolution is not a compeletly random process so maths do not factor into it as a means to make it improbable.

What they are most likely talking about is how life originated but as you can see in the vid he deliberately tries to fuse the two entirely different theories together to then make the wild claim both are there for impossible.

I like how its always "Oh i know tons of people that have nothing to do with evolution, none of them are working in that field but hey they are respectable scientists!"
It works great on layman who do not realize thats the underlined bit is a pretty important part. to the point that it negates the entire statement.
 
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