Why did God make Different Aged Rocks

bloodbought09

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Obviously I didn't mean it literally, but figuratively. Embedded age implies a deceptive God, obviously this means it cannot be correct on a theological level.



I have no problem defending Genesis 1.

The issue here is what it actually refers to.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

That is pretty plain. This refers to God creating the heavens and the earth. What other interpretation can you get from that?
 
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bloodbought09

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Genesis 1:2-3

2. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3. Then God said, "Let there be light and there was light.

A lot like this thread, it is without form, void, and filled with darkness, but when the word of God is spoken, the light comes in. Like I said, "God is light, and there is no shadow of turning." God does not cast a shadow, He is the light, and anything that is all light, causes everything else that is physical to cast a shadow.
 
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bloodbought09

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Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.

He said the light is good, and made no comment about the darkness. Darkness creeps in when the light is away, but when the light shows up it dispells darkness. The physical things cast the shadow, and the darkness hides behind it.
 
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Cabal

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That is pretty plain. This refers to God creating the heavens and the earth. What other interpretation can you get from that?

Some people think the creation account refers to special creation ex nihilo in 6 days.

Others think it refers to old earth creation, or intelligent design over long timescales.

Others think it refers to God-guided cosmology and evolution (i.e. the same processes that science is discovering, but that God was in charge, possibly in a way that can't be detected by science).

I'm in the last category.
 
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Split Rock

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Would it be better to debate a professional creationist about creationism, than novice creationists trying to support the more knowledgeable creationists stance on creationism? I do not know if any supporter of evolution on this forum could stand face to face with a professional creationist.
I think little of giving a professional creationist the credibility of a debate, but all one needs to know in order to debate a professional creationist is the tactics that they engage in. Professioanl creationists are debaters above all else... once you thwart their tricks and ploys they have little of substance to argue.

As for the physical and natural world: I can look at the world and evaluate it, just as any human being should. I am a graduate of high school and have the required knowledge of science, though from a psychological standpoint we do lose knowledge at or own given rate. I have not used this knowledge for some time, so I know only what I know. As for the natural world, Jesus Christ talked about natural things and then related them to spiritual things as you would see in John 3, and a lot of His teachings in the gospels as well. If anyone is interested I can list a few.
OK, but how does any of this give you the ability to critisize the mainstream science theories usually discussed here?

What are your professions? I can probably give spiritual insight into what you already know and profess.
I am a plant biologist. I'm not sure what spiritual insight such knowledge will give you..??
 
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Darkness27

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Would it be better to debate a professional creationist about creationism, than novice creationists trying to support the more knowledgeable creationists stance on creationism? I do not know if any supporter of evolution on this forum could stand face to face with a professional creationist.

Science isn't done by, or relies on, debates but rather evidence. Going out and doing science, getting it published in legitimate peer-review, is totally different than debating. Unfortunately most of the public is scientifically illiterate, and during 'scientific' debates in the public eye (they're not really 'scientific' but usually publicity stunts) this plays right into the hands pseudo-scientific people. They don't have to know science, just good debate tactics. Shotgunning is a popular approach, just bombard the scientist with a ton of questions that would literally take hours to fully explain but the scientist only has 5 or 10 minutes to respond. With tactics like this, catch phrases, appeal to emotion, playing off the audience, you could get someone supporting any pseudo-scientific position and they will completely and utterly destroy nearly every well-trained, recognized expert in the corresponding legitimate science.

However, once you go down the road of writing debates, such as forums, where there is the ability to bring in and look up (cite) real evidence, you will rarely see a professional creationist or pseudo-scientific supporter engage in such a thing.

You may be right in that none of us would do well one on one with a professional creationist live. But then again, I've seen some professional creationists make some pretty dumb arguments that would be easy to demolish. But once they start posting, say on this forum, they will most likely lose. Once you add in the ability to look up information it is a whole new game, and one that doesn't cater to creationists because, well frankly, the scientific evidence just doesn't support their stance one bit.

As for the physical and natural world: I can look at the world and evaluate it, just as any human being should. I am a graduate of high school and have the required knowledge of science, though from a psychological standpoint we do lose knowledge at or own given rate. I have not used this knowledge for some time, so I know only what I know. As for the natural world, Jesus Christ talked about natural things and then related them to spiritual things as you would see in John 3, and a lot of His teachings in the gospels as well. If anyone is interested I can list a few.

Not to be mean, but once I graduated high school I thought I was knowledgeable too, graduated with an advanced diploma, took 5 years of science, honors math, did well in all my courses, but it didn't take long to realize that I had no ****ing clue what I was talking about half the time.

I stress that you come into this debate with humility and a desire to learn with an honest and open mind.

And btw, welcome! May Christ be your shalom.
 
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bloodbought09

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I think little of giving a professional creationist the credibility of a debate, but all one needs to know in order to debate a professional creationist is the tactics that they engage in. Professioanl creationists are debaters above all else... once you thwart their tricks and ploys they have little of substance to argue.


OK, but how does any of this give you the ability to critisize the mainstream science theories usually discussed here?


I am a plant biologist. I'm not sure what spiritual insight such knowledge will give you..??

You do understand something as simple as planting a seed, and watering. This would be a good seed. Weeds give off spores and that is how they multiply. If you do not pick out the bad, then the weeds will affect the good plants.

Now, to go in the Spirit, the bad seed is what is sown by the devil. Look at tv programming. Even some evangelists put off bad seed when they are operating under the devil. It is good to clear out the bad seeds, so that the good seed, the word can sprout and grow. But, even the good can be looked at as bad and vice versa. The world calls good, bad, and bad, good. But, if your heart is bad soil, nothing good can grow in it. God is not backwards, we are. That is why He asks us to repent, turn 180 and go in the opposite direction. He cares about us and wants to correct our course.

I hope this makes some sense.

Colossians 3:2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
 
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bloodbought09

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Darkness 27, I did not mean that I got from high school what is required of being a professional scientist, but almost the direct opposite. I took the required science for high school curriculum, and at that I did only the requirements to pass with a C. I graduated back in 1990 from high school. I am not qualified to be a professional scientist. Sometimes when we give much words it gets misunderstood. I have already told the people in this thread that I am weak in science, but God can help in our weakness. I would rather introduce myself as nothing and offer something, than to introduce myself as something and be found to be nothing. Bless.
 
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bloodbought09

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Is a person who is into plant biology qualified to talk about rocks? But, we can turn the conversation toward "Why did God make different types of plants and different ages? Just as rocks, you could explain that a bigger plant is mature, though plants have life, but rocks do not.

In a spiritual standpoint, the bible explains those who believe as living stones. Peter was called the rock, that the church would be built on, that is the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. God relates us to trees that birds of the air can nest in. In psalm 1 it is written:

Psalm 1:1-3

1. Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2. But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night.
3. He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper.

That is why we have fellowship one with another in a church. We are planted where we can be fed and watered by the word.

The word is good food to grow by.

It is signified as milk and meat. It is spiritual food as the bread of life that came from heaven and the quail that the people went out to gather every morning. The milk of the word is good to grow by, it is precept upon precept, line upon line.

Just as with a scientist, he starts off with the basics, and then when he is fed with knowledge, he is mature and can be well respected for his diligence in study. It is not good to get around fools, when we hang out with immature, we can become immature, unless we are strong enough in the subject so that we may teach the immature to become mature.

A person who is looking to be a skilled scientist would get under a professor of such. Just as Elisha left his home life to go with Elijah, we go to follow one who is skilled and hopefully accomplish more than our teacher. Elisha walked in double the anointing Elijah did. His miracles produced double the effect because he humbled himself under a tutor, until it was time for him to carry the mantle for himself.

Bless.
 
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bloodbought09

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I understand, and apologize for coming off so strong. It is good to have you here, and it's pleasant to read your allusions to scripture. I look forward to your posts and hope you have a fun time here.

No offense taken.

1 Peter 3: 15-17

15. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
16. having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.
17. For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.


I believe I will give an account for every idle word, and I just know that God sees everything I type.

Sometimes I sense an angel behind me when I am on this forum, but I will not go too far into this, that can be suscepible to attacks on delusions of grandeur.

I sometimes see things in the Spirit. This is a thing I cannot explain entirely. It just happens when the Spirit causes it to happen. I am a very visual driven type of person. The devil has counterfeits of visions. I witnessed this when I took hallucinogens in the past about ten years ago.

See, meekness is humbleness, but not by any means weak and fear is not like the spirit of fear, but an awe and respect for the greatness of God, and realizing that when we are on our knees we are the biggest we can be.


If I come in like a tyrade and bash people with the word then it is only going to be a bad witness for Christ. I am an ambassador for Christ, so I must present things with the fruit of the Spirit intact:

Galatians 5:22-23

22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23. gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

I cannot go condemning others, but let the Spirit convict:

John 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

God came in the flesh, as Jesus Christ, to show people how to live. Not only that, He rose, so that He may raise us up. Humbleness before Him is admitting that we have not done right, realizing that we cannot without Him, and when we humble ourselves before Him, He raises us up.

James 4:7-10

7. Therefor submit to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Sorry so long. I will let that marinate for now.

Bless.
 
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bloodbought09

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Remember when we were talking about this train going off the rails?

The locomotive is powered by the Holy Spirit. When it is powered by flesh and our carnal minds, it is easy for the train to go off track. But the track has a destination, the train is directed by the Lord, and He knows how to keep it on course.

If this thread were named "How does evolution produce different ages of rocks" instead of putting it into God's hands, we would only get the natural explanation of things, and not what the Spirit has to say to us.

Psalm 37:23
23. The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, and He delights in his way.
24. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; for the Lord upholds him with His hand.

Bless.
 
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pgp_protector

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Remember when we were talking about this train going off the rails?

The locomotive is powered by the Holy Spirit. When it is powered by flesh and our carnal minds, it is easy for the train to go off track. But the track has a destination, the train is directed by the Lord, and He knows how to keep it on course.

If this thread were named "How does evolution produce different ages of rocks" instead of putting it into God's hands, we would only get the natural explanation of things, and not what the Spirit has to say to us.

Psalm 37:23
23. The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, and He delights in his way.
24. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; for the Lord upholds him with His hand.

Bless.
Thing is this thread isn't about evolution, it's about the Age of rocks.
 
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sandwiches

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The cornerstone is the oldest Rock of all. You are talking about the Age of rocks and this is the Rock of ages.

That's fine. We're not talking about the Rock of Ages. We're talking about the age of rocks. Please keep up.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Would it be better to debate a professional creationist about creationism, than novice creationists trying to support the more knowledgeable creationists stance on creationism? I do not know if any supporter of evolution on this forum could stand face to face with a professional creationist.
Maybe, maybe not, a friend of mine debated Duane the debate king aka Bullfrog protein Gish very successfully way back in 1978. Unfortunately I wasn't there but the other scientists and any neutral observers who were there understood that Vince won even though the creationists bussed in a lot of people to cheer Gish on. Once his tricks, especially the Gish Gallop, were exposed Gish had to give up doing so much debating. As to those of us on this board some of us have debated Jonathan Safarti under his nom de internet Socrates over on theology web. He doesn't do so well when people have time look up the facts and refute his distortions. Glenn Morton hasn't posted here for a while but he tore "Sarfati/Socrates" apart over there. The problem with a face to face debate is that is easier to throw out a whole pack of distortions and one liners than it is to quote serious science and it takes time to fact check and refute Hovindsh lies if you are not already familiar with them. Vince had to put a lot of time into preparing for his debate with Gish and of course he had to do it in a library not with Google and Wiki.
As for the physical and natural world: I can look at the world and evaluate it, just as any human being should. I am a graduate of high school and have the required knowledge of science, though from a psychological standpoint we do lose knowledge at or own given rate. I have not used this knowledge for some time, so I know only what I know.
But do you know how much you don't know?
As for the natural world, Jesus Christ talked about natural things and then related them to spiritual things as you would see in John 3, and a lot of His teachings in the gospels as well. If anyone is interested I can list a few.

What are your professions? I can probably give spiritual insight into what you already know and profess.
I am a Professor, what is your profession?

Now back to the subject of this thread, do you believe that God created a 4.5 billion year old earth 6,000 years ago and that this newly created earth had age but not maturity? That is AV's belief as far as we can tell. Do you agree with AV? What is you opinion of "embedded age"?
 
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bloodbought09

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Thing is this thread isn't about evolution, it's about the Age of rocks.

I read this. Jesus Christ is called the Rock and the cornerstone. He has been here since the beginning. He is the oldest Rock.
 
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sandwiches

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I read this. Jesus Christ is called the Rock and the cornerstone. He has been here since the beginning. He is the oldest Rock.

Great. So, he's still older than other rocks, then. So, as per the title, "Why did God make Different Aged Rocks?"

(Conflation is fun!)
 
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