Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love.

ozell · Jul 5, 2010

Lively Stone said:
Where does it say, "If you love me, try to keep my commandments"?

it don't

I said I try to keep God's commandments,

becuase he said so and I love him and he me if I keep his commandments

do you?

LS

it is written

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

and if you sin

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

we are told to

Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2Thes 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Tm 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Tm 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

pay close attention

Prov 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

lets keep it real!

razzelflabben · Jul 5, 2010

ozell said:
Sister

you are so in a frenzy to debate and prove me wrong you are NOT paying attention to anything I post.

continue to read the posts I put and comment with a open mind.

this denominational teaching that being presented that God love all people
is denominational teaching.

it's interesting that that is the argument you want to go with in that I already told you twice or more times now, that I threw out denominational teaching and delved into scripture with all abandonment, and found that God's love is indeed without condition....and I did all this, I did all this study so that you could come here, and claim to be more wise than scripture, more wise than the God who inspired the scriptures...and you claim that we don't follow God's commands...this pride of yours is evidence enough that you are missing God and His purpose/intent in love.

God is Love

but he put a condition on what Love is.

God is love, this is truth, but by the very definition of God is love, love cannot be conditional. That very definition removes all conditions from our answer here.

he showed us how to Love and gave to us on how he Love.

and gave to us on how he love???? what does that even mean? typo I'm sure, but I don't know what it is suppose to mean.

comment on my next few post and tell me what you gather.

cool, when are you going to attempt to answer any of my questions to you?

razzelflabben · Jul 5, 2010

ozell said:
2Peter 2: 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS

surely there was babies and children in the flood and sodom, why did they die?

because they were of the evil religions of the time, religions that would have drawn the children of Isreal away from God and into death.

who are the ungodly?

those that do not follow God and His commands.

why did the uncondtional God of Love who love all men kill them?

This question goes back to the Shepherd love, one of many things I wanted to study with you, but you refuse. You see, according to Psalms 23 the good shepherd, protects the sheep (us). So what does He protect us from? We see things from a worldly perspective...do you know anything about sheep? Sheep get scared easily, even at things that pose no real danger. God alone knows what is real danger and what is not. God shows us in scripture, time and time again, that the real dangers are eternal not temporal. So why then did God kill the people, because of His love, He protected the children of Isreal from the real dangers of being led astray, and those that HE killed, He preserved from a worse punishment, a worse death.

we have Godly and we have ungodly what is the difference between the Godly and the ungodly?

The Godly are those that love God and in so doing strive to obey the law...the ungodly are those that are content to live in their sin and self.

razzelflabben · Jul 5, 2010

ozell said:
like you said the topic is Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love.

God's commandments are conditons that God want us to keep

His commandments,

not man's

God's commandments are linked to Love.

let me ask you this, and please at least attempt to answer...do you know why man's love for God demands obedience? What about Love, real love, requires it to obey the commands of God? and don't just answer that God says so, the answer is much more important and interesting, and yes, scripture tells us why....

Lively Stone · Jul 5, 2010

ozell said:
2Peter 3v7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

the God of unconditional love has a place reserved for ungodly men?

by the way

why did the people learn their fate on judgement day?

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

what is the will of the Father?

22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

All in vain.

23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

why did the unconditional God of love say this?

that's kinda hard to find out on Judgement day you did everthing in the name of the Lord wrong!

Are you one of those who says, "We are all God's children!" ? Because that is false. Only those who have met and accept Jesus Christ personally have the right to become the sons of God. They receive God's unconditional love.

Those outside of the family of God are of another father (Satan) and family, and cannot experience that unconditional love.

Does your father love you unconditionally? I should hope so, because you are his child. Does your father love all the children down the street the same way? No, because they belong to other fathers.

razzelflabben · Jul 5, 2010

ozell said:
2Peter 3v7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

the God of unconditional love has a place reserved for ungodly men?

yep...doesn't mean He doesn't grieve for their loss...we are still deep in grief, why? Because of our deep and unconditional love for our son. Deep grief comes from deep love. Unconditional love doesn't mean that there will be no suffering, I don't know where people get this idea...

by the way

why did the people learn their fate on judgement day?

because that is how God designed it...they can know before judgment day, but on judgment day there will be no question on anyone's mind.

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

what is the will of the Father?

to protect His creation/people...Goes back to Gen.

22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

All in vain.

23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

why did the unconditional God of love say this?

because it's part of unconditional love...I know I have shown you this repeatedly as have others.

that's kinda hard to find out on Judgement day you did everthing in the name of the Lord wrong!

we can know before judgment day, but yes, if you have been deceived till judgment day, it would be a hard day to be sure.

ozell · Jul 6, 2010

Lively Stone;55156229]Are you one of those who says, "We are all God's children!" ? Because that is false. Only those who have met and accept Jesus Christ personally have the right to become the sons of God. They receive God's unconditional love.

sound like conditions :wave:

for only those who have met and accepted Jesus.

Those outside of the family of God are of another father (Satan) and family, and cannot experience that unconditional love.

so they follow the conditions or rules of satan?

Does your father love you unconditionally? I should hope so, because you are his child. Does your father love all the children down the street the same way? No, because they belong to other fathers

if I had not obeyed his rules continuously, probally not.

people fall out of love with unruly children and people!

ozell · Jul 6, 2010

Originally Posted by ozell
2Peter 3v7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

the God of unconditional love has a place reserved for ungodly men?

yep...doesn't mean He doesn't grieve for their loss...we are still deep in grief, why? Because of our deep and unconditional love for our son. Deep grief comes from deep love. Unconditional love doesn't mean that there will be no suffering, I don't know where people get this idea...

where is your response written in the bible?

lets read

Gen 6:5: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

it greived him so much that he destroyed them!

by the way

why did the people learn their fate on judgement day?
because that is how God designed it...they can know before judgment day, but on judgment day there will be no question on anyone's mind.

God designed that these people should learn that they was serving the Lord in vain on Judgement day.

you are telling me that YOUR unconditional God of Love would do such a thing?

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

what is the will of the Father?

to protect His creation/people...Goes back to Gen.

Sister
Christian all over this planet are worshipping Jesus in vain
how is this protecting his people when we have all these denomination running around claiming they are the church of God. :o

22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

All in vain.

23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

why did the unconditional God of love say this?

because it's part of unconditional love...I know I have shown you this repeatedly as have others.

what you and others have shown me is some denomination hogwash.

a unconditional God would not tell his followers this, your unconditional God don't have rules for anyone to follow!

that's kinda hard to find out on Judgement day you did everthing in the name of the Lord wrong!

we can know before judgment day, but yes, if you have been deceived till judgment day, it would be a hard day to be sure.

the Unconditional God of Love has no rules for a person to be deceived.

to be deceived the person has to kow what deception consist of.

THE CONDITIONS for deception must be in place for one to be deceived.

ozell · Jul 6, 2010

razzelflabben said:
let me ask you this, and please at least attempt to answer...do you know why man's love for God demands obedience? What about Love, real love, requires it to obey the commands of God? and don't just answer that God says so, the answer is much more important and interesting, and yes, scripture tells us why....

tell me Sister why do God's love demand obedience?

what is real love?

Please use scripture.

I'm repeating myself over and over

Jesus said Love is keeping his commandments

ozell · Jul 6, 2010

Originally Posted by ozell
2Peter 2: 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS

surely there was babies and children in the flood and sodom, why did they die?

because they were of the evil religions of the time, religions that would have drawn the children of Isreal away from God and into death.

is this your opinion or is this bible

who are the ungodly?
those that do not follow God and His commands.

so you are aware NOW that the commandments are a factor

why did the uncondtional God of Love who love all men kill them?

This question goes back to the Shepherd love, one of many things I wanted to study with you, but you refuse. You see, according to Psalms 23 the good shepherd, protects the sheep (us). So what does He protect us from? We see things from a worldly perspective...do you know anything about sheep? Sheep get scared easily, even at things that pose no real danger. God alone knows what is real danger and what is not. God shows us in scripture, time and time again, that the real dangers are eternal not temporal. So why then did God kill the people, because of His love, He protected the children of Isreal from the real dangers of being led astray, and those that HE killed, He preserved from a worse punishment, a worse death.

your God of unconditional love kills because of his love?

the wages of sin is death

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

if adam and eve had not sinned what would have happened?

we have Godly and we have ungodly what is the difference between the Godly and the ungodly?

the Godly are those that love God and in so doing strive to obey the law...the ungodly are those that are content to live in their sin and self.

sin is the breaking of the law

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

by your own words the ungodly are content to live in their sin.
they break God's laws

Jesus said

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

these people cannot love Jesus if they are content to break God's laws

razzelflabben · Jul 6, 2010

ozell said:
sound like conditions for only those who have met and accepted Jesus.

God's love is unconditional, it is extended to all people reguardless. Unfortunately, only some accept that love. Let's look at another biblical story for this understanding...take the prodigal son. Did the father stop loving the son just because the son ran away and lived in sin? Of course not, the whole point of the story is that the father still loved the son and quickly welcomed him home. The point of the story is the unconditional love of the father (God)

so they follow the conditions or rules of satan?

if I had not obeyed his rules continuously, probally not.

people fall out of love with unruly children and people!

You really withhold love from your children every time they do something wrong? Oh how I pain for your children if this is true...either that, or you don't have a clue in all this world what real love is....which is it? Do you not understand love, or do you withhold love every time you deem it necessary to correct? Even scripture tells us that correction is part of love.

ozell · Jul 6, 2010

Jesus said

Deut 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God,

which keepeth covenant

and mercy

with them that love him

and keep his commandments

to a thousand generations;

promises and mercy is to those that Love God and keep his commandments

to a 1000 generations

we are part of the 1000 generations

From Deuteronomy to John

generations have come and gone

and the Lord said again in John

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Paul said for our day and beyond

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

'

ozell · Jul 6, 2010

it was written before a apostles was born

Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

how do we do this?

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

how do we do this?

ozell · Jul 6, 2010

what happened to the children, newborn, babies of the flood and Sodom and gomorrah?

what did Jesus the God of conditional love kill these supposely inoocent folk?

Peter said the people of the flood and Sodom were ungodly.

this includes the children and the babies

Gen 6

5: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7: And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

people pay attention here God destroyed children and babies along witht he men and women. entire families were destroyed.

2Pt 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2Pt 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Peter said these people were ungodly. all except Noah and his family,Lot and his family

do you really think that God Love everyone?

EVERYONE includes the ungodly and the wicked.

razzelflabben · Jul 6, 2010

ozell said:
where is your response written in the bible?

so now you are asking me where in the bible it says that God grieves, something I highlighted in your own passages, and you can't see it....wow...okay, once again....Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Genesis 6:6
The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

Genesis 6:7
So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earthmen and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the airfor I am grieved that I have made them."

1 Samuel 15:11
"I am grieved that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions." Samuel was troubled, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

1 Samuel 15:35
Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the LORD was grieved that he had made Saul king over Israel.

2 Samuel 24:16
When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the LORD was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

1 Chronicles 21:15
And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But as the angel was doing so, the LORD saw it and was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." The angel of the LORD was then standing at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

Psalm 78:40
How often they rebelled against him in the desert and grieved him in the wasteland!

Isaiah 63:10
Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them.

Ezekiel 6:9
Then in the nations where they have been carried captive, those who escape will remember mehow I have been grieved by their adulterous hearts, which have turned away from me, and by their eyes, which have lusted after their idols. They will loathe themselves for the evil they have done and for all their detestable practices.

that is a good start...it is now time for you to accuse me of not posting any passages, so that I can tell you I have, and you can pretend there is nothing for you to address. God Grieves over the lost....

lets read

Gen 6:5: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

it greived him so much that he destroyed them!

notice the grieving which is what I said and you asked me to evidence in scripture....also notice that the passage is about justice and judgment, both of which are part of love!!!!! I really don't know what you don't get about that, if you do more than just quote passages no one is questioning it might help us to know what you don't understand. Grief shows Gods' love, a love that is unconditional to their behavior, a behavior that God cannot accept. A behavior in which the consequence is death. A behavior that grieves Him, a grief that comes from unconditional love. What part of that do you not understand? If I know, I will be able to do a better job of explaining and showing you scriptures that support the correction. If one does not love, they do not grieve...God grieves. Are you confusing love with pains in this world? Are you missing the justice and judgment of love? That is the best I can tell, as best I can figure, you think that love is some warm fuzzy which is why I have been begging you to study it with me...love is not a warm fuzzy, love includes but is not limited to justice and judgment, and this verse is a good place to start that understanding. The good father is another as is correction which is also found in scripture Proverbs 3:10-12 (King James Version)

10So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
11My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
12For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

God designed that these people should learn that they was serving the Lord in vain on Judgement day.

I don't even know what that has to do with the OP question...please connect the dots if you wish a reply.

you are telling me that YOUR unconditional God of Love would do such a thing?

such a thing as what exactly? Love them with correction? Love with a justice and judgment that is beyond our ability to comprehend? Love with a pureness that removes from the world those that could and would kill you and your children and your children's children? You think that justice/judgment for evils that kill the innocent is actually a lack of love? Why? Why would it be a lack of love for a father to protect his family by killing an intruder whose purpose was to terrorize and kill the children and wife and husband...in our world, we call it self defense...when it is God, you call it evil, lack of love...which is it...?

Sister
Christian all over this planet are worshipping Jesus in vain
how is this protecting his people when we have all these denomination running around claiming they are the church of God. :o

more of your judgment, not God's? Why do you think it is your place to judge others? Scripture tells us not to judge....Matt. 7:1 do you have a bible or should I cut and paste it for you?

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

what you and others have shown me is some denomination hogwash.

since I am nondenominational in belief, and worshiping with the brethren which have a wide range of beliefs, it would seem that once again, your judgment is false...good thing God is judge and not you.

a unconditional God would not tell his followers this, your unconditional God don't have rules for anyone to follow!

this honestly sounds like double talk, especially when applied to the discussion at hand...

the Unconditional God of Love has no rules for a person to be deceived.

He gives us conditions to judge whether or not we are being led astray, guidelines that show your teaching to be false.

to be deceived the person has to kow what deception consist of.

scratching my head, not sure what you think you are saying...

THE CONDITIONS for deception must be in place for one to be deceived.

so now we are changing the discussion to deception...how are you making this leap? I'm not tracking...

razzelflabben · Jul 6, 2010

ozell said:
tell me Sister why do God's love demand obedience?

what is real love?

Please use scripture.

I'm repeating myself over and over

Jesus said Love is keeping his commandments

There are a lot of different ways to answer this question which is why I asked you for your understanding, which you did not give. But the easiest to evidence for you and the quickest for me since it is a simple cut and paste, is humility...before the scriptures, let me give you this...when we study what scripture says love is, which includes but is not limited to I Cor. 13 we find that a very good short version (which includes but is not limited to obedience (especially since that is God's command for man's love, not love in general)) is to put others above self. IOW's love is an act of humility. It is to live the reciprical life God has called us to when He says that the first will be last and the last will be first (if you haven't studied this reciprical idea yet, please do it is awesome) anyway. Love, the short definition is humility, a humility like that of Christ...a humility in which Christ Himself subjected Himself to obedience...IOW's we obey because we humble ourselves to the point of putting God and His authority over our own. It's all an act of humility (which btw, just for the record, means that our judging others is an act of selfish pride, not love's humility, keep that in mind as you feel compelled to continue to judge others unfairly)

Anyway, passages, you want passages...there are tons, here are a few, hope you bible will withstand the study of Christ's humility... What is God's power over or who is it given to?
II Samuel 22:33 I Chronicles 19:11
II Chronicles 20:6-9 II Chronicles 25:8
Job 1:12 Job 5
Job 26 Job 36
Job 37 Psalms 29
Psalms 59:16 Psalms 62:11-12
Psalms 65:5-13 Psalms 66:3-7
Psalms 78:26-29 Psalms 106:8-11
Psalms 111:5-6 Psalms 147
Proverbs 8:13-16 Isaiah 27:1
Isaiah 40:25-31 Jeremiah 10:6 and 12-13
Jeremiah 27:5 Jeremiah 32:17-18
Jeremiah 51:15-16 Daniel 2:20-23
Daniel 7:14 Hosea 13:14
Micah 3:8 Nahum 1:3-9
Habakkuk 3:4-6 Zechariah 4:6
Matthew 13:53-58 Matthew 14:2
Matthew 22:29-32 Matthew 24:30-31
Mark 13:26-27 Luke 4:14-15 and 36
Luke 5:17-19 Luke 6:19
Luke 9:1-2 Luke 10:18-20
Luke 12:5 Luke 24:49
John 13:3 Acts 1:8
Acts 6:8 Acts 8:9-13
Acts 9:22 Acts 10:38
Acts 13:17 Acts 19:20
Romans 4:21 I Corinthians 1:24
I Corinthians 4:19 I Corinthians 6:14
I Corinthians 12:10 Philippians 3:21
II Timothy 1:6-12 Hebrews 1:3-4
Jude 1:24-25 Revelation 4:11
Revelation 15:8

What is the purpose of God's power?
Exodus 9:16 Numbers 14:17-18
Deuteronomy 8:16-18 Acts 26:12-18
Romans 1:4 and 16-17 and 20 Romans 9:17-18 and 22-23
Romans 15:13 I Corinthians 1:17-18
I Corinthians 2:4-5 I Corinthians 4:20
I Corinthians 5:4 II Corinthians 4:7
II Corinthians 6:3-12 II Corinthians 12:9-10
Ephesians 1:28-23 Ephesians 3:7-13 and 14-21 (also shows what His power is) Ephesians 10:10-18
Philippians 3:10 Colossians 1:9-14 and 28-29
II Thessalonians 1:11-12 I Peter 1:5
II Peter 1:3-4 Revelation 12:10-12

How do God's power and humility co-exist?
II Corinthians 10:1-6 II Corinthians 13:1-4
Galatians 4:28-31 Colossians 2:9-12
I Thessalonians 1:4-10 II Timothy 3:5
Hebrews 2:14-18 Revelation 5:12-13

Why is Love humble?
Exodus 10:3-6 God's judgment II Samuel 22:28
II Chronicles 7:13-16 II Chronicles 34:23-28
Isaiah 57:15 Isaiah 66:1-2 God esteems humble
Job 22:29-30 Psalms 18:27
Psalms 25:9 guides and teaches Psalms 149:4 salvation
Proverbs 3:34 grace Proverbs 11:2 wisdom
Proverbs 22:4 Proverbs 29:23 honor
Matthew 11:28-30 Luke 1:46-56
Philippians 2:1-11 Christ like II Corinthians 10:7-11 we are transparent
Ephesians 4:1-6 I Peter 3:8-12
I Peter 5:5-9

Where does humility come from?
Deuteronomy 8:1-5 suffering Deuteronomy 8:11-20
Daniel 4:36-37 Philippians 3:7-11
II Corinthians 5:11-21 II Corinthians 12:7-10
Colossians 3:12-14 James 3:13-18
James 4:7-10 submitting to God

Philippians 2:1-7 ish
In order just to love us unto repentance, Jesus our Christ had to give up, crucify self, empty Himself so that the following things define for us what real humility is...(I'm sure this is only a partial list...
Christ give up: His heavenly glory and in so doing, live among men (John 17:4-5)
Christ gave up: His face to face communication with God the Father (John 17:5)
Christ gave up: His Godly authority by being subject to the Father's will (Matt. 26:39; John 5:30; Heb. 5:8)
Christ gave up: His divine attributes by becoming not just a man, but an uncomely man (Mat. 24:36; John 1:45-49)
Christ gave up: His eternal riches (II Cor. 8:9)
Christ gave up: His relationship with God, when He took upon Himself the sin of the world and God could not look upon Him in that sin..."my God my God why have you forsaken me" (Mat. 27:46)
Christ gave up: His God nature (Luke 2:52; Gal. 4:4; Col. 1:22)
Christ gave up: His authority of a man by becoming a servant, the lowest of all men (Rom. 15:7-9; Phil. 2:6-8)
Christ gave up: His very life ([FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 10:11, 17-18; Luke 23:46)[/FONT]
Christ gave up: His pride as He endured humiliation even of that of the cross (Deuteronomy 21:22-23; Galatians 3:13)
Christ gave up: His right to defend Himself, when He opened not His mouth. (Isaiah 53:7)
Christ gave up: His right to self, by obedience (Philippians 2:8)

Again, if you send me a PM with an email address, I can provide you with even more passages on God's love to study.

razzelflabben · Jul 6, 2010

ozell said:
is this your opinion or is this bible

study the scriptures and then come back and tell me which it is...scripture is clear

so you are aware NOW that the commandments are a factor

a factor in what? No one has ever questioned the importance of the commandments, or that man is to obey God...this is all a made up argument on your part. The discussion is about God's love for man, not man's love for God.

your God of unconditional love kills because of his love?

yep, it's a just judgment thing, said that many times over, a lot of different ways...are you just now reading anything posted?

the wages of sin is death

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

if adam and eve had not sinned what would have happened?

they would have continued to live the life God had first given them I would guess...but that doesn't answer the OP question, now does it?

sin is the breaking of the law

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

by your own words the ungodly are content to live in their sin.
they break God's laws

yep, but that doesn't answer the question of whether or not God's love for man is unconditional, now does it?

Jesus said

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

these people cannot love Jesus if they are content to break God's laws

no contest, but that isn't the question being posed, which is what you are being told and asked about, but refuse to address. We aren't talking about man's love for God, but rather God's love for man....

razzelflabben · Jul 6, 2010

ozell said:
Jesus said

Deut 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God,

which keepeth covenant

and mercy

with them that love him

and keep his commandments

to a thousand generations;

promises and mercy is to those that Love God and keep his commandments

to a 1000 generations

we are part of the 1000 generations

From Deuteronomy to John

generations have come and gone

and the Lord said again in John

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Paul said for our day and beyond

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

'

please point out to us which part of this post addresses the OP topic...thanks

razzelflabben · Jul 6, 2010

ozell said:
it was written before a apostles was born

Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

how do we do this?

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

how do we do this?

still waiting for something that relates to the OP topic let me know when you are ready to deal with the OP topic

razzelflabben · Jul 6, 2010

ozell said:
what happened to the children, newborn, babies of the flood and Sodom and gomorrah?

what did Jesus the God of conditional love kill these supposely inoocent folk?

because they would have led the children of Isreal astray...consider the father who protects his family from and intruder and the intruder get's killed, is that because the father does not love? What about the father who stops his own son from killing others, is that because he does not love the son. if you son was commiting a crime, even murder would you try to stop him? Would you try to stop him because you no longer love him?

Peter said the people of the flood and Sodom were ungodly.

yep

this includes the children and the babies

Gen 6

5: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7:And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

yep...and your point is?

people pay attention here God destroyed children and babies along witht he men and women. entire families were destroyed.

yep, all for the very same reasons....and your point is?

2Pt 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2Pt 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Peter said these people were ungodly. all except Noah and his family,Lot and his family

do you really think that God Love everyone?

EVERYONE includes the ungodly and the wicked.

yes, see, you act like people here are agreeing with scripture, we do, what we disagree with is your application of that scripture to the topic at hand. You are claiming that judgment is not love, we are trying to show you that judgment is love. You are trying to claim superiority to God, we are trying to show you that we cannot be God.

Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love.

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