Textbook recommendations

for geology, read "Basin and Range" by John Mcphee. its not a text, and he is not a geologist, but it was recommended reading by my into to geol prof, and he said if the texts were written like this, there would be a lot more geologists.

Cabal said:

So as some of you may know, I'm a physicist by trade/training but the origins debate covers a whole bunch of different disciplines. I feel like I've gotten to the point where I'd like to start reading something a bit more substantial, at least in terms of broadening my knowledge of other fields besides mine.

I was wondering if anyone here could recommend any good introductory undergrad level textbooks on evolutionary biology, geology, palaeontology, cosmology etc (I realise I'm probably using labels that are faaaaar too broad, but trying to keep it roughly within the sort of sciences that are involved in origins).

In return, if anyone is desperate for physics book advice, feel free to ask, or just go to Wiccan_Child's much better thread

Disclaimer: Creationists and ID fans need not really apply for this one.

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One of my favorite books on evolution, that doesn't assume you have a PhD in Biology, is Your Inner Fish, by Neil Shubin.

Cabal said:

So as some of you may know, I'm a physicist by trade/training but the origins debate covers a whole bunch of different disciplines. I feel like I've gotten to the point where I'd like to start reading something a bit more substantial, at least in terms of broadening my knowledge of other fields besides mine.

I was wondering if anyone here could recommend any good introductory undergrad level textbooks on evolutionary biology, geology, palaeontology, cosmology etc (I realise I'm probably using labels that are faaaaar too broad, but trying to keep it roughly within the sort of sciences that are involved in origins).

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Evolution:
Origin of Species (of course)
What Evolution IS by Ernst Mayr
Evolutionary Biology by Douglas Futuyma. These are textbooks and will tell you everything you wanted to know, and some you had no idea of, about evolution and the evidence behind it.

Evolutionary Biology will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about evolution.

Geology:
The Biblical Flood: A Case History of the Church's Response to Extrabiblical Evidence by Davis A. Young
Science and Earth History by Arthur Straher. All the geology you will ever need to know, especially concerning the evolution vs creationism debate.

Young is a geologist and there's lots of geology here, as well as good history about creationism.

If you want to know about the "origins" debate:
Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller Great data refuting the new intelligent design.
Abusing Science: The Case Against Creationism by Phillip Kitcher. Good philosophy of science discussion and creationist positions.
Science on Trial by Douglas Futuyma
Science and Creationism edited by Ashley Montagu

The relationship of science and religion:
The Fire in the Equations by Kitty Feguson
Religion and Science by Ian Barbour
The Fourth Day by Howard Van Till
Science Held Hostage by Meninga, Van Till, Young

Cabal said:

So as some of you may know, I'm a physicist by trade/training but the origins debate covers a whole bunch of different disciplines. I feel like I've gotten to the point where I'd like to start reading something a bit more substantial, at least in terms of broadening my knowledge of other fields besides mine.

I was wondering if anyone here could recommend any good introductory undergrad level textbooks on evolutionary biology, geology, palaeontology, cosmology etc (I realise I'm probably using labels that are faaaaar too broad, but trying to keep it roughly within the sort of sciences that are involved in origins).

In return, if anyone is desperate for physics book advice, feel free to ask, or just go to Wiccan_Child's much better thread

Disclaimer: Creationists and ID fans need not really apply for this one.

Click to expand...

I just picked up Neil deGrasse's "Origins" yesterday. First ch. is good so far.

14 by of cosmic evolution.

Cabal said:

So as some of you may know, I'm a physicist by trade/training but the origins debate covers a whole bunch of different disciplines. I feel like I've gotten to the point where I'd like to start reading something a bit more substantial, at least in terms of broadening my knowledge of other fields besides mine.

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The Electric Universe--The Electric Sky

Another good book:

Thunderbolts of the Gods

Have you read "The ancestor's tail" by Richard Dawkins?

Evolution: 2nd Edition - haven't read the most recent version, but prior Futuyma textbooks were great for a broad discussion of evolutionary theory.

Doveaman said:

The Electric Universe--The Electric Sky

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lets add in

"Atlantis Arises"
"Matrix: The Documentary"
"The Book of Mormon"
"Crystal healing" The Complete Handbook"

Hespera said:

lets add in

"Atlantis Arises"
"Matrix: The Documentary"
"The Book of Mormon"
"Crystal healing" The Complete Handbook"

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He said he wanted to read something a bit more substantial, at least in terms of broadening his knowledge of other fields besides his, something scientific. I'm only trying to help.

Doveaman said:

He said he wanted to read something a bit more substantial, at least in terms of broadening his knowledge of other fields besides his, something scientific. I'm only trying to help.

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if the idea is to read something more substantial, something scientific , that sure isnt it.

Hespera said:

if the idea is to read something more substantial, something scientific , that sure isnt it.

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I'll bet money you've never even read the books he recommended which are wonderful by the way (I have two copies of each).

"At a conference on the expanding Earth in Sydney in 1981 Peter Smith did a test survey of people attending: sixty people interviewed expressed disbelief in the hypothesis, but none of them had read Carey's book on the topic." -- Cliff D. Ollier, geologist, 2005

Agonaces of Susa said:

"At a conference on the expanding Earth in Sydney in 1981 Peter Smith did a test survey of people attending: sixty people interviewed expressed disbelief in the hypothesis, but none of them had read Carey's book on the topic." -- Cliff D. Ollier, geologist, 2005

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Smart people.

Doveaman said:

He said he wanted to read something a bit more substantial, at least in terms of broadening his knowledge of other fields besides his, something scientific. I'm only trying to help.

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Cabal is a physicist. What you gave him were 2 books talking about an alternative physics theory. You gave him something in his field, but an idea that has already been refuted by that field.

Cabal said:

So as some of you may know, I'm a physicist by trade/training but the origins debate covers a whole bunch of different disciplines. I feel like I've gotten to the point where I'd like to start reading something a bit more substantial, at least in terms of broadening my knowledge of other fields besides mine.

I was wondering if anyone here could recommend any good introductory undergrad level textbooks on evolutionary biology, geology, palaeontology, cosmology etc (I realise I'm probably using labels that are faaaaar too broad, but trying to keep it roughly within the sort of sciences that are involved in origins).

Click to expand...

Hah, too bad I don't usually open my textbooks. I do own some books I've actually opened on the right subjects, though.

Baggins of this forum once recommended Life on a Young Planet to me. It's a beautifully written book and appears to be a very knowledgeable, balanced account of life from its conception to the Cambrian Explosion. Pop-sci, not a textbook, but you shouldn't miss it just because of that.

*skims through list of books that serendipitously happened to be nearby*

(Hmm, Evolving Pathways might be a bit too hard-core...)

From DNA to Diversity bored me to tears, as most textbooks do, but I can't deny that it does a decent job of introducing some important ideas. With lots of nice examples that may be "classics" to me but completely unknown to a non-evo-devo person. And it's short.

I can probably second the recommendation on The Ancestor's Tale, though I haven't read that one in years. I remember I learned a lot from it when I first read it just before starting uni, though. Again, it's not a textbook, but it introduces many important and/or interesting concepts in evolutionary biology while giving you a nice walk-through of the tree of life.

On the Origin of Phyla is again a bit hard-core, but I've found it incredibly useful as a general reference book. It has a major section that's basically a zoology textbook, with information (body plan, development, fossils etc.) about all animal phyla, and a (to me) very interesting section discussing their evolution. There's also a long first section that's basically a long-winded introduction - discussing ways of classifying organisms, the structure of animal bodies, developmental genetics, the nature of the fossil record, etc. etc.

I totally fell in love with The Book of Life, but it was probably outdated even when I read it cca. 11-12 years ago