Does, 'Love thy neighbor as thyself' mean homosexual sex is okay with Jesus?

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Polycarp1

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LOVE =/= HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONS

Not on my watch will you attempt to distort the Golden Rule like that. Not while I'm here ....

:nono:

First, unless you're Mr. Obama or Bp. Ratziger, it's not "your watch."

Second, you and seemingly everyone else opposed to homosexual relations is completely missing the point.

The question as Jesus requires us to face it is not "is what they're doing moral?" but rather "is what I'm doing moral?"

And that means loving a gay person as yourself, doing unto a LGBT person as you would wish to have done unto you. There may be room for kindly guidance there, but there is not for uncompassionate condemnation. And you can spring every other verse of Scripture on me, that defines the behavior my Lord and Savior expects from me in absolute principles. Not, please note, that I am expected to have sex with him, but that I am to treat him with respect, courtesy, compassion, agapetic and brotherly love.

This is not "Anything Goes-ism" nor is is secular humanism -- it is the core of moral theology as taught by the Gospel. And it is the part that most Christians find goes too much against their carnal desire to be judge and jury of the behavior of their fellow man, so they try to rationalize it away.
 
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*Starlight*

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So I want to be murdered, so I murder anything and everything I see.
I'm truly a God-fearing man.
Even if you want to be murdered, when you murder others who don't want to be murdered, you're going against the second commandment, "love your neighbor as yourself". :)
 
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Apollo Celestio

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Even if you want to be murdered, when you murder others who don't want to be murdered, you're going against the second commandment, "love your neighbor as yourself". :)
But I don't love myself! D:

Catholic guy: I was trying to snuff out the Godless Christianity thing.
 
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*Starlight*

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But I don't love myself! D:

Catholic guy: I was trying to snuff out the Godless Christianity thing.
Well, in that case it shows that the golden rule isn't perfect :D But adding weird stuff like "no homosexuality", "no mixed fabrics", etc. doesn't really bring it closer to perfection.
 
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*Starlight*

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context is important. We shouldn't be so quick as to put our 21st century lens on ancient judea
I agree. :) It's very possible that they had some reasons for these laws. But these reasons most probably aren't applicable today.
 
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*Starlight*

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You should try and learn the reasons back then before doodling conclusions!

I wasn't there, so I don't know. :) I've read a hypothesis that homosexual rape at that time was a common sign of domination of one man over another, for example in a war. If it's true, then this could be the reason why they were against it. However, I can't really think of any reason to be against homosexual relationships today.
 
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Archer93

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Anal sex (which is disgusting IMO) is certainly not limited to homosexuals, but when it's called sodomy it has certain connotations. The sodomy laws of generations past were not aimed at heterosexual couples.

Actually, they were.
Buggery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IIRC, there was a point in the UK when anal sex between two men was legal, but between a man and a woman wasn't.

This might be the only case in which homosexual men had a special right.
These days, there's full equality and everyone has the same right. :clap:
 
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Archer93

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I'll try to remember how hedonistic, wanton, selfish and licentious our lifestyle is this evening when my partner and I do our big fabulous gay friday night debauch... we get a pizza and a couple of new release DVDs, and sit around in tracksuits and ughboots and vege out. Does our evil know no bounds?

It's gone global- that's pretty much what my fiancee and I do as well.
With knitting.
We're kinky like that....
 
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EnemyPartyII

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And obeying God could simply mean following the second commandment: "love your neighbor as yourself". I have no idea if that's what Jesus meant, but it's definitely a possibility.
Thats pretty much it, so far as I'm concerned.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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I've met many homosexual men and I have yet to meet one who claimed he ever wanted to be in a monogamous relationship. Heterosexuals will usually at least lie about that. Homosexuals, men, tend to be honest. They know what they want and its not a spouse.
It only takes one genuine monogomous couple to make all arguments for recognition of homosexual marriage valid.



Homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says it is.
I don't believe ANYTHING is a sin "because the Bible says". What a terrifying universe to live in, if one believed in such an arbitrary, illogical God!
The STD thing is icing on the cake.
If you like strawman cake, perhaps. again, the "STD thing" is not an issue for people in monogomous relationships, or even people who openly disclose their STD status.
Homosexual men are the most promiscuous of all sexually active members of society.
Baloney. But even if this outdated stereotype were true, why should the actions of those who are restrict those who aren't? There are promiscuous heterosexuals as well, but that isn't a valid reason to restrict the rights of heterosexuals, is it?
Hence, the incidence of VD among them is huge. We can make pretend homosexuals just want to be monogamous and left alone but the reality is very different. Please tell me you already knew that. Up until now I though only well meaning Christians were clueless about such things.
[citation needed] Oh, and please, nothing from the department of oiled up houseboys from professor self loather (also known as NARTH and ASA)
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Um, I don't think Jesus was applying the Golden Rule to sexual tastes. And same gender sex acts are in no way condoned by the Golden Rule. In Christian reality, it would be applying the Golden Rule perfectly in being anti-gay in action and belief.
The Golden rule applies to ALL human interaction to determine what is, and isn't ethical.

You don't need to addd a whole bunch of arbitrary legalism on top of it. It works perfectly in its simplicity. Thats what's so divine about it. Once you start trying to make arbitrary rules to go on it as well, rules that make no sense, you lose the point and meaning of it.
 
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Autumnleaf

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It only takes one genuine monogomous couple to make all arguments for recognition of homosexual marriage valid.

No it doesn't. There's still the little matter of word definitions, laws, and morality that many people seem to derive from religious texts which tend to be disagreeable with such things.



I don't believe ANYTHING is a sin "because the Bible says". What a terrifying universe to live in, if one believed in such an arbitrary, illogical God!If you like strawman cake, perhaps. again, the "STD thing" is not an issue for people in monogomous relationships, or even people who openly disclose their STD status.Baloney. But even if this outdated stereotype were true, why should the actions of those who are restrict those who aren't? There are promiscuous heterosexuals as well, but that isn't a valid reason to restrict the rights of heterosexuals, is it?[citation needed] Oh, and please, nothing from the department of oiled up houseboys from professor self loather (also known as NARTH and ASA)

Part of being on Christian forums means you are dealing with people who take the Bible seriously. To them 'because the Bible says so' is a valid reason to believe and do all sorts of seemingly illogical things.
 
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DRD4Him

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The Golden rule applies to ALL human interaction to determine what is, and isn't ethical.

A pedophile does not think he or she is doing anything wrong. They used to be little children neighbors and are treating their little children neighbors the way they want to be treated.

And the same could be said for many other forms of criminals as well.

You don't need to addd a whole bunch of arbitrary legalism on top of it.

Instead of adding sexual licentiousness to it? How odd that you don't see all of the heaps of extras put on it by LGBT's and common liberals.

It works perfectly in its simplicity. Thats what's so divine about it.

It's connected to preaching the Gospel of repentance and forgiveness. There's no such thing as the Golden Rule for orgies. Well, maybe condoms and alcohol.

Once you start trying to make arbitrary rules to go on it as well, rules that make no sense, you lose the point and meaning of it.

Same gender marriages would be the makes no sense part of it. Doing as pagans do and cheering others on to do it as well is not part of applying the Golden Rule in the Christian aspect of it.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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A pedophile does not think he or she is doing anything wrong. They used to be little children neighbors and are treating their little children neighbors the way they want to be treated.

And the same could be said for many other forms of criminals as well.



Instead of adding sexual licentiousness to it? How odd that you don't see all of the heaps of extras put on it by LGBT's and common liberals.



It's connected to preaching the Gospel of repentance and forgiveness. There's no such thing as the Golden Rule for orgies. Well, maybe condoms and alcohol.



Same gender marriages would be the makes no sense part of it. Doing as pagans do and cheering others on to do it as well is not part of applying the Golden Rule in the Christian aspect of it.
*rolls eyes* Always with the paedophiles.

So tell me, why don't YOU excplain what the Golden rule means, if not "treat other people the way you want to be treated"?

I've already stated there are areas where it gets tricky in cases of greatest good for greatest number and self defence, feel free to through "mental illness" in there as well.

I'll be hoinest, I think you are being needlessly argumentative and contrarian. You don't WANT to see my point.
 
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elizabetta_bella

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I really struggle with this topic and pray about it often, as I believe sexual issues keep many from Jesus. I think we should love one another as He loved us, but as stated above it doesn't really apply to this situation...IMHO.

I consider myself an ally (straight and not narrow), because I have family, friends, and co-workers in the LGBTQ community who are beautiful souls. I love and care deeply about their well-being, both in this life and the next. BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IT IS THE WILL OF GOD to have them be subjected to a life of self-loathing, isolation, and minority stress* because the true nature of human sexuality was not fully understood during biblical times.

I believe the Bible to be inspired by God, but I also believe God gave us minds to think critically about scripture and not take everything at face value. In my heart I believe Christ called all men and women to not enter into sexual relationships unless in marriage/lifelong commitment is made. Obviously, gay marriage would be the answer, but I know the chances of that happening are slim here in the US.

I really don't know the answers, only that I am another sinner who loves the Lord, her loved ones, and ruminating!

*I know that some denominations believe that my affirmation of their sexuality could condemn us to Hell, which is infinitely worse than just one lifetime. However, I also believe that the Lord is merciful and just and will save multitudes more than will be condemned.
 
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KCKID

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I really struggle with this topic and pray about it often, as I believe sexual issues keep many from Jesus. I think we should love one another as He loved us, but as stated above it doesn't really apply to this situation...IMHO.

I consider myself an ally (straight and not narrow), because I have family, friends, and co-workers in the LGBTQ community who are beautiful souls. I love and care deeply about their well-being, both in this life and the next. BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IT IS THE WILL OF GOD to have them be subjected to a life of self-loathing, isolation, and minority stress* because the true nature of human sexuality was not fully understood during biblical times.

I believe the Bible to be inspired by God, but I also believe God gave us minds to think critically about scripture and not take everything at face value. In my heart I believe Christ called all men and women to not enter into sexual relationships unless in marriage/lifelong commitment is made. Obviously, gay marriage would be the answer, but I know the chances of that happening are slim here in the US.

I really don't know the answers, only that I am another sinner who loves the Lord, her loved ones, and ruminating!

*I know that some denominations believe that my affirmation of their sexuality could condemn us to Hell, which is infinitely worse than just one lifetime. However, I also believe that the Lord is merciful and just and will save multitudes more than will be condemned.

My, there really ARE Christians and Christians, aren't there...?

Thanks for a most thoughtful post, e_b!
 
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