Majority find homosexuality morally acceptable'for first time

Phinehas2 · Jun 11, 2010

QuakerOats,
Nathanlandon1 has outlined exactly what has been outlined by myself before.
The text does not say or indicate rape, rape is your assumption and a faulty one.

That the men wanted sex with men would make them homosexuals rather than heterosexuals under your thinking, yet as has been pointed out the terms are faulty according to the rest of the Bible.

The men also wanted sex with the men, though they were angels the men did not recognise them as angels but as men.

Of course, if people who don’t the revelation of God will look to interpret the scripture according to what they think it should say in worldly terms rather than Kingdom ones; hence the difference between believers and non believers.

KCKID · Jun 11, 2010

KCKID said:
No it wasn't. THAT was considered rape, Phinehas, and the raping of a man by another man was inhospitality taken to its extreme! True! It was regarding the man as being the equivalent of a (gasp) woman ...property!! That was a definite no, no. One could rape a woman (unless she was the property of a man) but no raping of men, please!

Phinehas2 said:
KCKID,
Well yes it was, men wanting sex with men is homosexual as opposed to heterosexual, whether you like it or not. Indeed thats where sodomy came from.

Well, I've got news for you, Phinehas. The men of Sodom - as referred to in the Bible fable - were heterosexual and NOT homosexual. These men were married (to women no less!) and had sired the young who came with the old (Genesis 19:4) to 'greet' the angels with their special brand of 'hospitality'. Where do you think the young came from ...a test tube?

The raping of a man or men by heterosexuals was considered to have been the most degrading act that could be perpetrated on the victim. It had NOTHING to do with sex per se but everything to do with intimidation. And it's THIS that is referred to in the account of Sodom. Read my lips ...it was I N H O S P I T A L I T Y toward strangers.

Do you honestly not see this, Phinehas?

Phinehas2 said:
And I dont need to hear your disbelief and denial of it again.

To tell you the truth I don't much care whether you want to hear it again or not. I'm not going to allow you and others to continually use a fable from the Bible with which to denigrate others ...especially a fable of which you are in total ignorance as to its meaning.

QuakerOats · Jun 11, 2010

Phinehas2 said:
QuakerOats,
Nathanlandon1 has outlined exactly what has been outlined by myself before.
The text does not say or indicate rape, rape is your assumption and a faulty one.

The text does not say rape, no, but I do think the text suggests it. If the men were looking for consensual sex with the angels, I don't think they would have acted with the mob mentality that they did. It's also highly unlikely, imho, that each and every male there was attracted sexually to the disguised angels. You said yourself that to say the men were all homosexual is false. Therefore, I'm not seeing what else can be inferred but gang rape.

BigBadWlf · Jun 11, 2010

Phinehas2 said:
Well they would, as society turns further away from God they find whatever suits them more acceptable. Its the world people want. Good luck.
Its also interesting in the UK how the uproar about MP's expenses has gone on for many months clammouring for MP's to face the law, fines loss of jobs and even prison, only to now find the discovery of a minister misapropriating expenses fo a flat for his gay lover has resulted in him being persuaded to stay in office as a man of integrety.
The people who dont believe the account of Sodom, obviously cant see themselves playing it out today.

"This is the sin of Sodom; she and her suburbs had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not help or encourage the poor and needy. They were arrogant and this was abominable in God's eyes." Ezekiel 16:48-49

EnemyPartyII · Jun 11, 2010

heyhihey said:
Or, in the fall of Greece, and the fall of Rome, and most other great empires for that matter. I completely agree.

I'm sure its already been pointed out, but just for fun... Greece and Rome didn't fall during the period when homosexuality was generally accepted by society. Indeed, they both suffered their "fall" and general reversion to barbarisim later, noteabley, after their conversion to Christianity.

Interesting double standard... that with zero causal link, people will blame homosexuality for the fall of Rome and Greece, based merely on the fact that these occured within the same civilisations, (albeit 3-500 years apart) but mention that empires that convert to Christianity invariably fall shortly afterward, or during the conversion process, well, THATS just a coincidence.

BigBadWlf · Jun 11, 2010

heyhihey said:
Or, in the fall of Greece, and the fall of Rome, and most other great empires for that matter. I completely agree.

Greece was conquered by Rome as was Palestine (I guess the Hebrews were in a hedonistic state of moral decay as well.)

And Rome didnt fall until it converted to Christianity

BigBadWlf · Jun 11, 2010

Phinehas2 said:
QuakerOats,
Nathanlandon1 has outlined exactly what has been outlined by myself before.
The text does not say or indicate rape, rape is your assumption and a faulty one.

That the men wanted sex with men would make them homosexuals rather than heterosexuals under your thinking, yet as has been pointed out the terms are faulty according to the rest of the Bible.

The men also wanted sex with the men, though they were angels the men did not recognise them as angels but as men.

Of course, if people who dont the revelation of God will look to interpret the scripture according to what they think it should say in worldly terms rather than Kingdom ones; hence the difference between believers and non believers.

So the only way to be True Christian is to share your personal prejudices? I guess these forums will have to change their definition of Christian to include a list of minorities that one must hate to qualify as Christian

BigBadWlf · Jun 11, 2010

KCKID said:
To tell you the truth I don't much care whether you want to hear it again or not. I'm not going to allow you and others to continually use a fable from the Bible with which to denigrate others ...especially a fable of which you are in total ignorance as to its meaning.

EnemyPartyII · Jun 11, 2010

BigBadWlf said:
So the only way to be True Christian is to share your personal prejudices? I guess these forums will have to change their definition of Christian to include a list of minorities that one must hate to qualify as Christian

And in other news, fire is hot.

Phinehas2 · Jun 11, 2010

EnemypartyII
Greece and Rome of NT times, together with the account of Sodom, and the surrounding pagans at the time of Moses, are just examples of where homosexuality has become widely acceptable. Of course those who don’t believe what the Bible says about these probably wont realise this isnt the first time a majority in a society comes to accept this.
Neither is anyone blaming homosexuality for the downfall as such, that’s just pro-gay paranoia, rather that we see the acceptance of homosexuality is a symptom of a degenerated hedonistic society. There are similarities between the descriptions of Sodom in Genesis, Ezekiel, Matthew and the epistles and now.

Phinehas2 · Jun 11, 2010

Bigbadwlf,

So the only way to be True Christian ™ is to share your personal prejudices? I guess these forums will have to change their definition of Christian to include a list of minorities that one must hate to qualify as Christian

Well a true Christian believes the Bible, all I have been doing is referring to what the Bible says. deduce what you will.

EnemyPartyII · Jun 11, 2010

Neither is anyone blaming homosexuality for the downfall as such

Really? What thread were you reading?

The "Rome and Greece fell because homosexuality was accptible there" is a routinely posted PRATT, by many posters, in many of these threads. In deed, I'd go so far as to say I'm pretty sure I remember YOU making such claims yourself.

Explain to me why, if that isn't what's being said, that the fall of Greece and Rome come up again, and again, and again, and again in these threads?

Phinehas2 · Jun 11, 2010

EnemypartyII
Read the posts, societies that accept homosexual perversion as normal, downfall. This is because they have degenerated enough to accept homosexual relations as normal. Greed, celebrity idolatry, sexual immorality, abortion human sacrifices etc.

Psudopod · Jun 11, 2010

Read the posts, societies that accept homosexual perversion as normal, downfall. This is because they have degenerated enough to accept homosexual relations as normal. Greed, celebrity idolatry, sexual immorality, abortion human sacrifices etc.

So why was the the idol worship and homosexual acceptance much higher when the empires were in their accendance, and much lower at their fall?

EnemyPartyII · Jun 11, 2010

Psudopod said:
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So why was the the idol worship and homosexual acceptance much higher when the empires were in their accendance, and much lower at their fall?

Again.

DRD4Him · Jun 11, 2010

From a good old Christian role model about the nature of "the world" and the church:

"In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encouragewith great patience and careful instruction.

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.

Instead, to suit their own desires,

they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."

- Paul to Timothy, a Greek Christian

Things are going exactly as the Christians in the new testament showed us they would.

EnemyPartyII · Jun 11, 2010

If in doubt, claim people disagreeing with your lunacy is a sign of the Apocalypse.

Phinehas2 · Jun 11, 2010

EnemypartyII
Well the word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing, which kinds of indicates those who see the word of God as lunacy will not recognise the prophecy of the 'apocalypse'.

DRD4Him · Jun 11, 2010

EnemyPartyII said:
If in doubt, claim people disagreeing with your lunacy is a sign of the Apocalypse.

Or a sign that you really are part of the lunacy but are either in denial or are a self loather?

Phinehas2 · Jun 11, 2010

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Majority find homosexuality morally acceptable'for first time