Christian marriage same gender? Where???

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Gishin

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What are you talking about? Divorce is accepted in Islam, are you talking about certain practices in Christianity by certain churches?



What I'm saying is, if you're in a homosexual relationship and you want to get married, don't go to the masjid, synagogue, or church and expect to have the usual marriage ceremony. It goes against the teachings of all 3 religions and I wasn't literally saying that said places of worship are ours and not the homosexuals.
That's not really an issue in America. The issue is because some religions look down on homosexuality they manipulate the system to deny homosexuals legal rights to marriage in a secular court.
 
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Beanieboy

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Since the Bible is used so often by non Christians to show Christians how they should act, then for the sake of morality and ethics, let's ask this question:

Where, in the New Testament, is there ANY cause or justification, to define or support "Christian marriage" between people of the same gender?

(And please, keep to the subject of this OP and do not compare misbehaviors of Christians to enter the discussion.

For example: "Christians commit adultery and get divorces, so, same sex marriage should be allowed in Christian churches."

That would show same sex marriage as another wrong behavior and certainly comparing wrongs to make a right wouldn't fit the description of morality or ethics.)

So the question:

Where, in the New Testament, is there ANY cause or justification, to define or support "Christian marriage" between people of the same gender?

The bible doesn't support being Muslim or atheist, and yet, you tolerate it. Is that because you have learned to love your neighbor as yourself (you want the freedom to practice your religion, so you extend it to others) or do you believe that you can have any God before God, and disobey the First Commandment by "condoning it" because you tolerate it?

If you are against same-sex marriage, don't get married to someone of the same-sex, and let others disagree with you, and live in freedom.

No one is asking for your approval.

However, as long as we are on the subject, many people in the bible had multiple wives, so you support polygamy? There are slaves, so you support slavery? There are verses saying that women should marry their rapist. You support this? You support stoning adulterers?

There are a lot of things in the bible that we don't observe.

There is also no mention of the internet. Is the internet therefore sinful?
 
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DRD4Him

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The bible doesn't support being Muslim or atheist, and yet, you tolerate it. Is that because you have learned to love your neighbor as yourself (you want the freedom to practice your religion, so you extend it to others) or do you believe that you can have any God before God, and disobey the First Commandment by "condoning it" because you tolerate it?

If you are against same-sex marriage, don't get married to someone of the same-sex, and let others disagree with you, and live in freedom.

No one is asking for your approval.

However, as long as we are on the subject, many people in the bible had multiple wives, so you support polygamy? There are slaves, so you support slavery? There are verses saying that women should marry their rapist. You support this? You support stoning adulterers?

There are a lot of things in the bible that we don't observe.

There is also no mention of the internet. Is the internet therefore sinful?

So you agree that there is no such thing as same gender (same sex) marriage in Christian truth.

Thank you.
 
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katautumn

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I'm not sure what the fascination is with using the Bible to prove something is acceptable. For example, you hear people say "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" or "the Bible only mentions heterosexual marriage, so clearly that was the intent". There are things that are clearcut, defined by the Bible as wrong (lying, bearing false witness, murder, stealing, cheating on your spouse, greed, laziness, etc.) and then there are the extra-biblical things like masturbation and same-sex marriage and listening to secular music and should women cover their heads, etc. People assume that if the Bible doesn't mention it as acceptable, then it must be unacceptable. Then they go out of their way to point to vague Scriptures that somehow back this theory up.

There's no justification in the NT for driving cars, using the computer or using birth control either, but most Christians find these things acceptable.
 
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KCKID

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I'm not sure what the fascination is with using the Bible to prove something is acceptable. For example, you hear people say "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" or "the Bible only mentions heterosexual marriage, so clearly that was the intent". There are things that are clearcut, defined by the Bible as wrong (lying, bearing false witness, murder, stealing, cheating on your spouse, greed, laziness, etc.) and then there are the extra-biblical things like masturbation and same-sex marriage and listening to secular music and should women cover their heads, etc. People assume that if the Bible doesn't mention it as acceptable, then it must be unacceptable. Then they go out of their way to point to vague Scriptures that somehow back this theory up.

There's no justification in the NT for driving cars, using the computer or using birth control either, but most Christians find these things acceptable.

You said it. I absolutely agree with you.
 
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Phinehas2

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lawtonfogle,
But girls are female but girls are not women,
And neither girls nor women are same gender marriage, kindly get back on topic.


No the teaching is that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, so not child marriages. The question is about where is the support for same gender marriage, stay on topic please.
Yes, a man will be united with his wife, never says his wife has to be of a certain age,
Still off topic. Get back on topic please.


I asked you a question, you need to answer it first before we can continue.
The scriptures cited are the answer to your question. The letter is written to believers, The believer has two words and gifts given throughout the NT, as specified both in 1 Corinthians 7 and Matthew 19, faithful man woman marriage or celibacy, that applies to all believers, is the homosexual you referred to a believer or not?

Your question suggests you dont believe this either. The thread is asking what scriptures support same gender marriage, not what thinking you have as to why you dont believe what they scriptures say.
 
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wanderingone

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My thing is, if homosexuals want to get "married," then fine, they can do so in the secular world and obtain the benefits and so on. But why on Earth would expect religions to accept you also? Or expect members of the clergy to perform the marriage ceremony for you? Despite the intellectual acrobatics that some do to justify their or others behavior, homosexuality is a sin to most religions and it's moronic to try to fight for religious homosexual marriages. I say don't come to our masjids, churches and synagogues looking for us to accept and perform your marriage ceremony as we would for heterosexual couples.

But... who is fighting for religious marriage as a right? In the US marriage is a state product.

Generally couples obtain a license and follow up by having someone legally allowed to perform a ceremony do so, the marriage is then registered (again with "the state") and life goes on. The marriage ceremony itself may be religious or it may be secular, while I know MANY MANY opposite sex couples who suddenly feel the need to have a church as the setting for their wedding when they haven't set foot in one for years and who have gotten highly offended when turned away from the church of their choice I don't actually know any same sex couples who have asked a church they didn't know to be supportive of marriage equality to perform their wedding.
 
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Phinehas2

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KatAutumn,
I'm not sure what the fascination is with using the Bible to prove something is acceptable.
well for those who believe it is the word of God which gives life it is very important. Would you not be interested in what you thought was life rather than death?

For example, you hear people say "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" or "the Bible only mentions heterosexual marriage, so clearly that was the intent". There are things that are clearcut, defined by the Bible as wrong (lying, bearing false witness, murder, stealing, cheating on your spouse, greed, laziness, etc.) and then there are the extra-biblical things like masturbation and same-sex marriage and listening to secular music and should women cover their heads, etc.

This is the bearing false witness we are addressing.
But before the false witnessing, firstly heterosexual and homosexual are sexual attractions to either the opposite or same gender/sex. They have little bearing on marriage defined in scripture as man/woman except that someone who has same gender sexual attraction might not be attracted to sex within a marriage.
As soon as one uses the terms heterosexual and homosexual they immediately put the approach to a discussion from a human perspective contrary to God’s.
The scriptures describe God made male and female, man and woman to be united in marriage, so homosexual is consequently disordered.
What you have done is ignore the request to provide scripture to support same gender marriage by ignoring the condemnation of same gender relationships.

Now the Bible mentions men with men instead of the natural with women as error and homosexual offenders, those who practice homosexuality, abusers of themselves with men, in the same passages as describing bearing false witness murder, theft, adultery and sexual immorality.
So what you have said is bearing false witness by leaving homosexual practice out of the list of sins and trying to make out it isn’t clear cut.

Here are some excerpts from a few more versions...
9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
- ASV

9 Don't you know that evil people will not receive God's kingdom? Don't be fooled. Those who commit sexual sins will not receive the kingdom. Neither will those who worship statues of gods or commit adultery. Neither will men who are prostitutes or who commit homosexual acts. - NIRV
9-10 Surely you know that the people who do wrong will not inherit God's kingdom. Do not be fooled. Those who sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, those who are male prostitutes, or men who have sexual relations with other men, those who steal, are greedy, get drunk, lie about others, or rob—these people will not inherit God's kingdom. - CEV
9Or (A)do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? (C)Do not be deceived; (D)neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals, - NASB

So either admit the Bible is as clear about its condemnation of homosexual practice as any other sin, or admit you dont believe what the Bible says; but dont lie.
 
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Apollo Celestio

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I'm as orthodox as mostly anyone, but the sex drive homosexuals have is just as it is with heterosexuals. One could interpret it to say, get married if you can't control yourself. Heterosexuals fall so often, why do we not think the same happens to homosexuals? Do you think in this way they've been forced into that hypersexualized sub culture leading into promiscuity?
 
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Phinehas2

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If the issue was we can’t control ourselves then we might as well continue with any sin we don’t think we can control. The fact is people do remain celibate both for the Kingdom and for other reasons, and people do live out faithful marriages.
The battle for the world is to listen to God, note that all things are possible with the Holy Spirit and forgive and restore where people do fall short, NOT listen to the lies about why people cant do what their stubborn hearts don’t want to do.

The homosexual argument has set itself on a pedestal as though all sins are possible to avoid except homosexual desires. Ask yourself, is it easier to give up wealth for poverty than sex?
 
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KCKID

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lawtonfogle,
And neither girls nor women are same gender marriage, kindly get back on topic.

No the teaching is that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, so not child marriages. The question is about where is the support for same gender marriage, stay on topic please.
Still off topic. Get back on topic please.

The scriptures cited are the answer to your question. The letter is written to believers, The believer has two words and gifts given throughout the NT, as specified both in 1 Corinthians 7 and Matthew 19, faithful man woman marriage or celibacy, that applies to all believers, is the homosexual you referred to a believer or not?
Your question suggests you dont believe this either. The thread is asking what scriptures support same gender marriage, not what thinking you have as to why you dont believe what they scriptures say.

Phinehas, the answer to the OP is, of course, that marriage in scripture is solely between a man and a woman. Having said that, however, one really DOES have to apply the culture of the day to this topic. It's unavoidable. In the good ol' days of scripture a woman became a man's PROPERTY and, whether you like it or not, that was the lot of women in the days that you would have us return to. Men were NOT another man's property so any suggestion back then regarding male/male marriage would have made every male's head do a 90% spin ...sorta like Linda Blair in The Exorcist. Read the 7th-commandment of the Big Ten, Phinehas. This is a commandment about PROPERTY! The man's HOME is his numero uno property. His wife comes SECOND. The man's 'neighbor' mentioned in the commandment is A MALE!

So, put two and two together, mix in the culture of the day, add the patriarchal element, stir, and you will soon figure out WHY it was expected that a MAN marry a WOMAN!

Or, um ...maybe not. :sorry:
 
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Phinehas2

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KCKID,
Phinehas, the answer to the OP is, of course, that marriage in scripture is solely between a man and a woman. Having said that, however, one really DOES have to apply the culture of the day to this topic.

No because the scripture shows believers they must hold to the that truth desite cultures such as at the time of Genesis, Leviticus, and Greek and Roman NT times.
Sure the days of when a woman was a man’s property are OT, the NT describes the husband in Christ needs to make all decisions in the interest of the wife.
So what you are saying is all wrong, as the marriage is still man and woman throughout the Bible as in God’s creation purpose.
Your view is not scriptural and in line with God’s word, it is the very cultural falsehood you claim.
 
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KCKID

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KCKID,

No because the scripture shows believers they must hold to the that truth desite cultures such as at the time of Genesis, Leviticus, and Greek and Roman NT times.
Sure the days of when a woman was a man’s property are OT, the NT describes the husband in Christ needs to make all decisions in the interest of the wife.
So what you are saying is all wrong, as the marriage is still man and woman throughout the Bible as in God’s creation purpose.
Your view is not scriptural and in line with God’s word, it is the very cultural falsehood you claim.

You really are kidding yourself, Phinehas. Even today women don't have equality with men. What about 20 years ago? So, just imagine how it was for the woman back in the days of yore. Even Paul had to instruct the men to LOVE their wives. If they had been doing so they would not have needed such an instruction, now would they?

This 'the scripture states that marriage is between a man and woman and anything other is error' is just a smokescreen to support a culture that had little respect for a woman as an actual person. A woman was merely a food preparing, "do as you're told, or else!" baby-making chattel.

Where are you guys coming from? I mean ...really?
 
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Phinehas2

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KCKID,
You really are kidding yourself, Phinehas. Even today women don't have equality with men.
I was referring to the word of God KCKID, the Kingdom, let your Kingdom come, let your will be done on earth as in heaven. I have no issue with what you say about what happens in the world.


I think you are kidding yourself by having no idea of the Kingdom of God, all your thinking is worldly based. The NT teaching of Christ is for husbands to love their wives even as their own bodies also belong to the wife. Read 1 Cor 7 and Eph 5.
Note also there should be no hint of sexual immorality.
As to human concepts of equality, the woman and the man are not equal, not even physically for a start, this is why same gender coupling is not an equality but a disorder.
 
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DRD4Him

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Phinehas, the answer to the OP is, of course, that marriage in scripture is solely between a man and a woman.

End of issue in the "bigotry, hatefulness and phobia" of the pro family Christian position. You should be defending the pro-marriage (Man and Woman marriage) Christians.

Having said that, however, one really DOES have to apply the culture of the day to this topic. It's unavoidable.

It's unavoidable that your theology is Anything goes ism. Of course you have the right to tag a Christian label on it, but we have the right to challenge your alternate version. As Jude so aptly urges us to.

In the good ol' days of scripture a woman became a man's PROPERTY and, whether you like it or not, that was the lot of women in the days that you would have us return to.

YET, the Christian scriptures "Christianity" defined marriage far differently than that. The man and woman were equals with a structure. And still absoluetly no such things as endorsed or an endorsement of same gender marriage. Your theological political movement was addressed as being current throughout time. Now, you CAN become a secularist and follow secularism, which it appears you are doing firmly, but that also has no endorsement in the scriptures. And we see, that is why they must be relgated to the ash heap of ancient times.

Men were NOT another man's property so any suggestion back then regarding male/male marriage would have made every male's head do a 90% spin ...sorta like Linda Blair in The Exorcist.

Slaves were common from Moses' time remember? Are you forgetting there is a epistle (Philemon) detailing how to treat slaves?

Read the 7th-commandment of the Big Ten, Phinehas. This is a commandment about PROPERTY! The man's HOME is his numero uno property. His wife comes SECOND. The man's 'neighbor' mentioned in the commandment is A MALE!

The Hebrew-Christians dealt with NON Hebrew Christians and still, never changed what a marriage is. You have utterly no justification to do so except a non Christian angle. Just be honest that your position on gay marriage runs counter to the message of the church and be done with it. Your position unleashes anything and everything now be a Christian thing just because a new group doesn't like Christian truth.

Are there NOT Christian truths for the ages??? Even you liberals seem to say there is, except you want it to fit whatever drives your humanism to be its equal.

So, put two and two together, mix in the culture of the day, add the patriarchal element, stir, and you will soon figure out WHY it was expected that a MAN marry a WOMAN!

The chauvanistic or domination element within the patriarchal mindset was dealt with too in Christian truth. Still though, not even a hint of homosexuality being a basis for forever redefining marriage as the pagans have and will do.

Or, um ...maybe not.

Not. There is Christian truth and there is false teachings that say they are Christian reality. In the "That was then this is now," positions, there is no such thing as Christian truth. There is only the word "Christian" attached to whatever new political/social movement desires power in western (and global south, central and south America and asian) societies while trying to gain power without resorting to military action or violent civil unrest.

How does your position NOT redefine everything through a secular/godless lens, and is able to force that method into the "historic" Christain church?
 
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Psudopod

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Nice try, but, "they" were living in Roman Judea. They lved under Roman rule, Roman Law and in a Roman culture.

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's . . . right?

They knew what same gender sexual behavior was and is.

We know it as homosexuality or LGBT culture.

But Jesus had to explicitly point out that they should render unto Caesar what is Caesars. And Paul explicitly mentions pagan rites (including sex acts) and why they are wrong. This is my point. Some things are explicitly mentioned as wrong, or as right, in the Roman culture, other things are just ignored. Nothing is said one way or another about committed relationships, suggesting that at the very least Jesus had better things to talk about.
 
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Psudopod

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End of issue in the "bigotry, hatefulness and phobia" of the pro family Christian position. You should be defending the pro-marriage (Man and Woman marriage) Christians.

Only if this to apply only to other Christians. The bible should have no special place in determining secular laws and morality.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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How does "I subscribe to the idea of 'love one another as you yourself would be loved'" (i.e. I wouldn't want to be murdered, so I won't murder, I wouldn't want to be raped, so I won't rape) equate to "anything goes"?

Its one of the most non sequiter-y "logic" shifts I see around here.

He'll start banging on about "turning out" again any second. I'm still waiting for an explanation of that term, and more importantly, why he is so familiar with "GLBT" terminology that even I (and no other G, L, B or T person I have recently discussed the matter with) have no idea what it means.
 
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