"Spiritual Isreal"... What do we mean by that term?

LittleLambofJesus · May 26, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
How do these relate to the two folds (of the Jews first) as were the disciples then of the Gentiles (sheep not of this fold)? The two houses of Israel (of Jew and Greek) made one fold having one Sherperd. They are not to cast off their first faith.

Jesus speaks of those not His sheep (which are certainly not of His fold)

John 10:36-37 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

The Lord knoweth them that are His

1Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

My rather "unique" view [as usual

] is that "fold" in Reve 11:2 is symbolizing the OC Priesthood.
Notice that word is also used here

Matthew 26:3 Then were gathered together the Chief-priests and the Scribes, and the Elders of the people to the court/fold/aulhn <833> of the Chief-priest who was called Caiaphas
[Revelation 11:2]

Reve 11:2 and the court/fold/aulhn <833> *without the Sanctuary be casting out! out-side and thou mayest not be measuring her

http://www.christianforums.com/t7272732-6/#post48193672
The Court in Revelation 11:2

Fireinfolding · May 26, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
My rather "unique" view [as usual ] is that "fold" in Reve 11:2 is symbolizing the OC Priesthood.
Notice that word is also used here

Matthew 26:3 Then were gathered together the Chief-priests and the Scribes, and the Elders of the people to the court/fold/aulhn <833> of the Chief-priest who was called Caiaphas
[Revelation 11:2]

Reve 11:2 and the court/fold/aulhn <833> the within/without the Sanctuary be casting out! out-side and thou mayest not be measuring her

http://www.christianforums.com/t7272732-6/#post48193672
The Court in Revelation 11:2

But what is the Spirit of it Lamb?

Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Job 36:13 But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.

Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Job 15:24 For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Yet receiving the greater condemnation is also shown here...

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Has hypocricy ceased?

Job 13:16 He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.

Job 27:8 For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?

Rick Otto · May 26, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
Yeah the persecution comes from the one born after the flesh not the one born after the Spirit (thats the design of it for sure). They are both manifested just as the children of God (born of incorruptible seed) and the one born of corruptible seed (of which we all are) till we be born of God again of the Spirit (His promise). The distinguishing factor between the children of the flesh or the children of the promise is the Spirit alone. If you have His Spirit you are His but if you have not His Spirit you are none of His. But both are in the flesh after a carnal truth, its just that the other is not (but after a spiritual truth) and basically by Him who is invisible (not those He dwells in who are visible). They arent invisible. What do you mean by invisible church (so I can understand where you are coming from)? You dont mean we become casper do you?

Ok, but no term is gonna suffice because spirit is beyond form. If we call it the spiritual church, it will just start a new round of interpretive struggle.
But the idea of "Invisible Church" exists to express the idea that all the visible churches are not in themselves able to completely keep out the goats & admit only the sheep. So no visible church is without error in this regard. There are members to every visible church that are not of The Body of Christ (The Invisible Church). They weren't placed "in Christ" before the foundation of the world.

"St Caspar's 1st Invisible Church"?.... (naw, it funny but it ain't right) ^_^

Fireinfolding · May 26, 2010

Rick Otto said:
Ok, but no term is gonna suffice because spirit is beyond form. If we call it the spiritual church, it will just start a new round of interpretive struggle.
But the idea of "Invisible Church" exists to express the idea that all the visible churches are not in themselves able to completely keep out the goats & admit only the sheep. So no visible church is without error in this regard.

Ok ok...I think I recall how this got started. for instance someone saying that the city on a hill is on "a visible mountain" you can touch (type thing) sound familiar? Whereas (where you are come is unto Mount Sion) which is not a mount that "can be" touched though it consist of the church of the firstborn. Whereas the argument is used thats its "a visible mountain" or an visible church (type thing) and the otherside ( I somewhat relate to) though using that term anymore would be making matters worse) because its come across to folks that its implying an invisible type (spirit people without physical flesh) playing church somewheres unseen ^_^

There are members to every visible church that are not of The Body of Christ (The Invisible Church). They weren't placed "in Christ" before the foundation of the world.

That I can agree with as it speaks of those feasting with you (that are twicedead without fruit etc)

"St Caspar's 1st Invisible Church"?.... (naw, it funny but it ain't right)

St Caspers, only YOU!!! LOL

LittleLambofJesus · May 26, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
"St Caspar's 1st Invisible Church"?.... (naw, it funny but it ain't right)

Click to expand...

St Caspers, only YOU!!! LOL

Tado appeared to have a slight problem with that

http://www.christianforums.com/t5603395-7/#post36068595
My Problem with the Invisible Church

tadoflamb said:
It's invisible. I can't see it.

Fireinfolding · May 26, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Tado appeared to have a slight problem with that

http://www.christianforums.com/t5603395-7/#post36068595
My Problem with the Invisible Church

Sheesh, I was replying to you and the forum went down as I hit submit (Thank God I saved it)

Yep, Thats how it got started Lamb, and that one was the very one I was recalling when it dawned on me

Man...How many years ago was that? ^_^

I get the invisible part even as Otto pointed out. I do tend to lean toward the invisibility of the church because we are not to know one another after the flesh (which is by the sight of the eyes). So I understand the argument (after how its meant). It speaks of those "feasting with you" that are twicedead (so all who visibly show up are not always as they appear to be. For man looks at outward appearance but God looks at the heart. So invisibilty (to the flesh in relation to the Spirit makes sense to some extent) and we know the natural man cannot discern things of the Spirit anyway (but it can outward things) though they are not always as they appear either lol. The very reason why the world cannot receiveth Him is it seeth him not but faith looks at what is unseen not at what is seen.
Pointing to a literal physical mountain and saying "this is Sion" cant be as its not a mount that can be touched, YET YE ARE COME (to just "that").

So I do relate the "that argument" moreso, not at all meaning that people (in general) are invisible as even His Kingdom is in/and/or among us, just know one another after the Spirit . So though we be in the flesh (after a carnal truth) we are not in the flesh (after a spiritual truth) If we have His Spirit so we are to know no man after the former. Even then its sorta like "I see you but I dont see you" and so you are invisible to me anyway ( ^_^

kidding with ya)

Rick Otto · May 27, 2010

The very reason why the world cannot receiveth Him is it seeth him not but faith looks at what is unseen not at what is seen.

Right, because the faith is of God, not of ourselves and only spirit discerns & desires spiritual things.(1Cor2:14)

And it can be amusing. Heterosexual women can have cultural expectations like expecting to be looked at if they're good-looking, and ignored if they're not. When I reverse my response to that expectation it can be amusing at least & rewarding at best. Same thing just personality - wise too, sex aside. Cultural expectations are largely semi-unconsciously learned & held behavioral responses.
The new person hosting the "open mic" night at Bones ( a bar I been playin' at) is lesbian and a crowd of her friends are now regulars. So now I get to see a whole new set of expectations that are basicaly the same, but with the roles juggled.
And it can be a real challenge to stay on my feet.
Last night there was some confusion brewing onstage and Rosy came outside totaly frustrated. Her partner in hosting the night, a young hetero guy, cut his cigarette break short to dive into it.
A young, cute lesbian already brimming with attitude said "What happened to the music?" and I replied "The men are in charge now." which I meant as a way of explaining what went wrong, but she took it completely wrong, as if I'd told her to get back in the kitchen.
I went over and stood right by her for a minute to give her a chance to vent, but I think she saw that & understood intuitively what had happened. She didn't exactly ignore me as I didn't exactly get in her face, but I stood there lookin' at 'em & listenin' to 'em (her & her 2 or 3 friends by the door) long enough for them to sense I had no hostility in me was willing to make myself vulnerable, not threatening.

There's a whole lot of "invisible" interaction that goes on soulfully, even if nothin' much is goin' on spiritualy.

I think the word "invisible" might provoke an almost involuntary disdain for the very reason it doesn't satisfy the appetite for stimulation of any of the 5 senses.

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"Spiritual Isreal"... What do we mean by that term?

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Fireinfolding

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Rick Otto

The Dude Abides

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Fireinfolding

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Fireinfolding

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Rick Otto

The Dude Abides

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