Old Earth...New Earth.. Gap Theory

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faithful89

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I have been reading lately about the different theories when it came to creation. When I first became a Christian, the old earth theory was explained to me..
as far as the earth wasn't created in 6 literal days.. all that good stuff..

I guess I am just looking for everyone's else's opinions on this.. and trying to find out which is most biblical. I think I have a pretty good understanding of what each of these theories mean, I did look them up on Wikipedia.. but I am wondering from a Christian's perspective.
 

chilehed

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I was raised to believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, but today I realise that the biblical texts don't actually demand that interpretation. The physical evidence points to an old earth, and a faithful Christian can certainly hold to that view.

But I've stopped worrying about it.
 
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JasperJackson

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Because the Bible is one continuous story I don't think it can be denied that humans have been around for 6000 years. So-and-so was X years old when so-and-so jr was born, etc.

But did God use evolution to create humans along with all other creatures? It's possible. But if that's the truth then we need to develop a metaphorical interpretation of Genesis. But what would that metaphor be? I just don't think it fits with what the word says.
 
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AlexBP

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This is obviously a heated topic and we're unlikely to come to a consensus in this thread. So please keep in mind that what I say is only my opinion.

I do not believe in the literal six-day interpretation of the creation story of Genesis. At the same time, I think that calling it strictly "metaphorical" is not quite right either. I believe that the creation story is a affirmation of the true, physical fact that God created the entire universe and everything in it with a purpose, and that after the act of creation (but before the Fall) it was good.

So why do I believe this? Let me first explain why I do not believe the literal six-day interpretation. I have two reasons for not doing so. First, there's a mountain of scientific evidence showing much more than six days time between the beginning of the universe and the start of the human race. Second, the two stories in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, if interpreted literally, contradict each other. (For starters, in chapter 1 humanity is the last act of creation and the man and woman are created simultaneously. In chapter 2 the man is created first, then the plants and animals and everything else, and then woman is created.)

Now why do I believe that the creation account is more than metaphorical? Simply because it fits with what we know, in terms of both theology and science, too well to be merely a poetic device.

In theological terms, many of the Pagan nations that surrounded Israel in Old Testament times did not believe in a purposeful creation. In their mythology, the cosmos were often formed from the swirling blood or sperm of the gods, more or less at random, without any intention on the part of the pagan Gods to produce anything meaningful. Against this empty and purposeless view of the cosmos, the creation story of Genesis is very specific in saying that God created the universes and each level of being within it--matter, plant, animal, and human--with a definite purpose in mind, and that each level of creation was observed to be good.

In scientific terms, once we shake loose from the literal six-day interpretation, the story in Genesis matches up with what science has found.

1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
In the 19th century many scientists believed that the universe had no beginning; it had always existed and lasted for an infinite amount of time. However, in the 20th century century we have found evidence that the universe did come into existence at a specific time, which means, logically, that there must have been some reason for that beginning.

2. And the earth was without form, and void;
Science confirms that for millions of years after the Big Bang, there were no planets or any other solid matter in the universe. Instead, all matter existed as fluid clouds, which only gradually coalesced into galaxies, stars, and planets.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Science has also confirmed that in order for the universe to change into a state where human life became possible, physical laws, constants, and the amounts of matter and energy all had to be set exactly right. If things were only slightly different matter would never have formed into stars and habitable planets. I believe that this truth is reflected in the second verse of the Bible, which seems to describe God moving and acting among primordial matter.

3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
In the early universe there was light emitted from the gas clouds due to high temperatures, even before stars and galaxies were formed. (It's really amazing, when you think about it, that the Bible gets this detail right. Primitive tribes would probably be expected to assume that light came only from the sun and stars.)

Likewise the Genesis account is correct that an ocean covered the early earth before land emerged, that life showed up only after the emergence of land, that plants came before animals, that sea animals came before land animals, that birds came before mammals, and that humans came only after everything else.

Skeptics can, of course, point to some discrepancies, but we need to remember that a detailed technical description of the early universe would have been beyond the grasp of the ancient Israelites, and that the theme of the creation story was to affirm that God created the world with humankind as the endpoint of creation.
 
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oi_antz

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I have come to believe that both science and the Bible are correct - how on earth would you comprehend this unless you actually had faith in God and science?

I understand big-bang and evolution are necessary theories for scientific advancement, so scientifically it is necessary to believe these theories.

I understand the story of Adam, Eve and Noah are necessary beliefs to demonstrate how awesome and merciful our Lord is, so they are necessary for us to have faith in our Lord.

I don't understand however, why the Bible is applied to the topic of modern science and why science is applied to the topic of faith - they are both necessary elements of life and they are not actually meant to be used as contradictions!

There is no way science can facilitate a relationship with God and there is no way the Bible can be used to compensate for scientific research - it's a ridiculous mess we have in our world today because certain people can't open their mind and accept the world for what it actually is.
 
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Bouke285

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It's really, (for Christians) not something we even need to worry about. If God wanted us to know exactly what he did, exactly when he did it, we would know. What matters is our future not our past. I used to argue these kinds of topics long and hard until I realized how unimportant those arguments were.
 
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sbbqb7n16

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I've always viewed it this way:

The science correctly says that it would normally take billions of years to make what God created in 6 days.

After all... when God created Adam, he didn't create a 1 day old fetus. Adam probably had the appearance of a 25-35 year old man. While we know that he was less than 1 day old, science would say (correctly) that it normally takes about 27 years to grow to that size. So was Adam 27 yrs or 1 day old?

How long would science say that it would take the sun to form on its own? Probably millions-billions of years. But it didn't happen on its own. God made the sun in a day. So is the sun billions of years old, or 1 day?

Things are not necessarily as old as they appear.
 
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ambz4God

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Peple seem to underestimate what God can do. 'Nothing is Impossible for God" , obviously, nothing is impossible for God, God can create the earth in 6 days, He is more powerfull than anything ever created!


Haha, if something is said in The Bible, it is true. Little details don't matter.

I beleive God did create the earth in 6 days. :)
 
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oi_antz

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I'm understanding it better now - been discussing it a bit the last few days. The Bible is true 100%, evolution is a necessary theory to scientific advancement, but it is a lie. Sometimes it is necessary to believe a lie to achieve the right result, so the scientists who believe evolution are doing the right thing by using it for scientific advancement, however those who use it to undermine the Bible are misusing the knowledge. That's where I stand now: The Bible is true, evolution is a lie, however both are just as necessary for us to understand and accept if we happen to be involved in either faith or science.
 
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heymikey80

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There's also Framework, recently expanded through a theologian named Kline in a "two-register" framework. His hypothesis was that the framework of Genesis showed the creation activity being enacted from Heaven -- and thus the days were days in heaven, not in creation.

I have to say a number of different views of creation make comparative sense. There are good arguments across a number of ranges, and Kline's ideas are interesting at least. But they're new and relatively untested. Most interpretations have plausible drawbacks as well as advantages.

Evolution is a word, and it's filled with meanings in philosophy that aren't confirmed by the science involved. To me that's the basic issue I have: a philosophical issue with the term used for the science.
 
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Hog Red

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Peple seem to underestimate what God can do. 'Nothing is Impossible for God" , obviously, nothing is impossible for God, God can create the earth in 6 days, He is more powerfull than anything ever created!


Haha, if something is said in The Bible, it is true. Little details don't matter.

I beleive God did create the earth in 6 days. :)[/QUOTE

x2 God doesn't need billions of years to do anything, God is not bound by time anyway. "and there was evening and there was morning", kinda need help misunderstanding that.

Plus who says he has to create anything as if it's new anyway, he just as easily created something as if it were old.
 
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ChildOfGod97

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I have been reading lately about the different theories when it came to creation. When I first became a Christian, the old earth theory was explained to me..
as far as the earth wasn't created in 6 literal days.. all that good stuff..

I guess I am just looking for everyone's else's opinions on this.. and trying to find out which is most biblical. I think I have a pretty good understanding of what each of these theories mean, I did look them up on Wikipedia.. but I am wondering from a Christian's perspective.

One point maybe no one pointed out: When people say "science says earth was created by the big bang over a million whatever years" that is theory. Not fact. They were not there and could not be there.

There seems to be evidence for this, but that evidence is not conclusive.

There are other possible explanations. The science is new and our vision limited.

As a "for instance", some look at erosion patterns on earth as "proof" for the earth's old age. What if it was created that way.

Ultimately, the important thing to understand is God created the universe and earth out of what we might call "thought". Faith. Substance of our own dreams. And He sustains it that way.

Our own existence is a miracle.

Existence, anyway one turns it is incomprehensibly improbable to the impossible.

Whatever one believes is the story of creation.

To the impossible.

No wonder Jesus could turn water into wine and walk on water. He understood that the possible was formed from the impossible.

And is so sustained.


Everything is so solid. So real. Mundane to the magnificent. Yet it is not.

Not as we think it is.


We are as characters in a book who are unaware of the true state of our existence.
 
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rationalfaith

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I personally believe in an old Earth. Keep in mind that the Creation story had to be understandable by individuals. It's not like God is going to get down into the details of quantum mechanics, both because people wouldn't comprehend it nor is it necessary to understand the meaning of the Bible. I think He gave us enough to understand what basically went on while still being accessible to people.
 
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FrequencyDX

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In my personal opinion I don't think that scientific knowledge can contradict the belief in an alimighty God, personally I think that scientific investigation is one of the ways in which we can come closer to appreciating the truly vast and complex nature of Gods creation. Aslong as we accept the special nature of human beings and our relationship with God, then I see no problem with accepting evolution as valid.

Ps. The creation story in Genesis is one of profound meaning, but in my opinion it is divinely inspired poetry, that contains the truth that God created our Universe and human life purposefully. Imagine if the author of the book of Genesis started writing about physics and the creation of the universe in scientific terms, nobody would have understood it. Modern science as we know it has only been around for what, maybe 200 years, if that. God gave us the Bible, so that we could all come to know of him, and inspired it to be written, so what would be the point in writing science into a Bible targetted towards a pre-scientific people. Thought this was a noteworthy point.
 
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JakeAM

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I hold to a modified old earth view. I think it's plausible to suggest that the creation of the heavens and earth took place over an extended period of time, but I don't think through reading the text you can come to the conclusion that any sort of evolution occurred in the creation of Adam. It just doesn't fit. John Sailhamer's view that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" refers to his creation of the universe and everything that follows is an account of the garden itself being organized, is possible.

For evolution to occur there must be death, and there was no death in the garden. I have no interest in accommodating modern science, but I don't think it's unbiblical to suggest that, sans man, the earth evolved and changed. I don't think we should be trying to line up the Bible with our current views on science, but rather try to make our views on science line up with the Bible. That may seem ignorant to some, but the fact of the matter is that the Bible is inerrant, scientists are not.
 
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DoctorJosh

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I have been reading lately about the different theories when it came to creation. When I first became a Christian, the old earth theory was explained to me..
as far as the earth wasn't created in 6 literal days.. all that good stuff..

I guess I am just looking for everyone's else's opinions on this.. and trying to find out which is most biblical. I think I have a pretty good understanding of what each of these theories mean, I did look them up on Wikipedia.. but I am wondering from a Christian's perspective.

Are you digging for proof that God created the earth in 7 days? You won't find it. However what you will find is proof God did create mankind since every other idea has only run back around to God in their theories. Such as evolution, a mosquito that is found in some 10 million year old fossilized sap is still the same mosquito today. A monkey is still a monkey, an insect is still an insect, a fish is still a fish and the list goes on. But trying to find proof of the first days the world was created is going to be almost impossible. I just leave that up to God and take Moses word for it. What science has proven is man came from man since the beginning since they already have studied DNA from all over the world and found everyone to be distantly related. They just won't put such claims in a text book that also claims man came from an ape because it defeats their billions of dollars of worthless work in trying to prove God doesn't exist, but every time something leads them back to God they just ignore it. Anyway to make a long story short, many scientists who dug deep finally became Christians because they had found there was nothing else to explain what they found. Darwin became a Christian a few years before his own death. I guess they forgot to print that in school text books as well. Hope that helps answer your question. Or perhaps I misread your question??
 
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SuzanneM52

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The Bible also says that with God, a day is as a thousand years and vice-versa. Time is irrelevant to God. I sometimes have to smile at evolutionists.....if evolution is correct, then who's to say God isnt in control of that as well?If the Big Bang theory is correct, who is to say that isnt the way God created the universe and everything in it?
 
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