Who are the two Witnesses?
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Originally posted by JesusServant [/i]
Can you quote where PC has said this about Jesus? I have read a lot of what he has written. Although I don't agree with every word, I certainly did NOT see him say this. Maybe I missed it, please post the quote and set all us Christians straight again. We sure do need it.
Eph replies...
Sorry I haven't checked back in this thread for awhile...This site is SO huge I get into other threads and forget my way back to this one...!
Some of "PC's" posts have been selectively "deleted" I guess...either by him or a monitor...So now I can't direct you to his comment on Michael...other than my original post that was made point by point...using his original post..!
BTW Jesus servant...I'm not here to set anyone "straight"....If the Lord doesn't do that for a person...I sure can't..nor do I try to...!
Can you quote where PC has said this about Jesus? I have read a lot of what he has written. Although I don't agree with every word, I certainly did NOT see him say this. Maybe I missed it, please post the quote and set all us Christians straight again. We sure do need it.
Eph replies...
Sorry I haven't checked back in this thread for awhile...This site is SO huge I get into other threads and forget my way back to this one...!
Some of "PC's" posts have been selectively "deleted" I guess...either by him or a monitor...So now I can't direct you to his comment on Michael...other than my original post that was made point by point...using his original post..!
BTW Jesus servant...I'm not here to set anyone "straight"....If the Lord doesn't do that for a person...I sure can't..nor do I try to...!
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Originally posted by 66books
ephraim
not sure who you perceive michael as.?
any input would be great.
b.i.c
66books
Eph says...
Apparently.."PC" or someone else has pulled the post in question 66books...!
What I percive Michael the Archangel mentioned in JUDE 9...is Michael is an ArchAngel...He's not Jesus Christ...he's a created being...!
Thats how I always precieved Michael...PC claimed Michael was Jesus...I disagreed...!
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Originally posted by Douglas
Prophecy Countdown,
First of all, if you considered the previous posts you've made here which you have now removed to have contained and been the truth, then it was childish of you to go and remove them - there are others here besides your nemesis, "Ephraim777", and what you have done is to prevent them from being able to read your posts which you apparently believe contained sound and true doctrine. (Not that by this I am implying agreement with your doctrine, mind you.)
Eph writes...
Uh...Doug...?? I kinda take a wee bit of issue with you calling me someone's "Nemesis"...I'm not someone who imposes punishment or vengence..or retribution on people...
So "In Christ" your a bit out of line with calling me that...! I don't know who "deleted" those posts PC made...nor do I care...The info is STILL there to be seen because of the way I reply...!
I use the persons original post...(( like I'm doing with yours here ))...and interject my thoughts throughout the post...THEY made....So unless they can mess with MY post somehow...The original post is there for ALL to review....MY posts included because I don't know how to delete them..I only know how to edit them..!
I think thats fair..what about you..?
Now you called me a "Nemesis"...I'd ask you to please look that word up in the dictionary...read the definition of that word..and "In Christ"...let the Lord lead you to do whatever HE says about it...!
My stance on sound Biblical doctrine and it's teaching isn't wishy washy...I'll agree...But I'm not sent to be a Nemisis to anyone..(( It's not my style ))
Doug writes...
Michael is the "archangel", but is not God. Jesus is God, and is not the "archangel". """"""" Jesus was the "Angel of the Lord" in the Old Testament (or perhaps that was the Holy Spirit, but we can assume, I suppose, that it was Jesus).""""""""
Eph kindly asks...?
Do you have scripture for the last portion of this statement..?
I don't agree at all with that last bit at all...In no way would I ever assume or suppose Jesus was the "Angel of the Lord" in the OT...!
Please remember Doug...I'm not trying to be a "nemesis"...because I ask you for "proof" from scripture...! My approach to teaching ...is to state what I believe and why and from where....and challenge the things other people post that I know to be in error...by asking them to "firm up" their position with scripture...!
Thus I accomplish 2 things....when they go and check me on things I post..
...1, They first have to read their Bible...and
2, They can see for themselves the "misinformation" they might have learned or been taught..!
The ground is then ready for planting...!
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Originally posted by JesusServant [/i]
Just for the record, I agree that Michael is in no way Jesus or vice versa. But if I'm wrong about something I wouldn't deleted every thing I ever posted here and I wish you wouldn't either PC.
Eph writes...
I concur.....No one is perfect...Nor do we ever reach a state in our walk with the Lord...where we can sit back and say " I know it all "...
We're not goning to be judged on how much we know...But WHO we know..!
The object is to be honest with each other in our postings and when we make a mistake..learn from it...and grow from it and teach others not to make the same mistakes we've made or learned...!
Helping others to avoid the dicthes in life we might have just crawled out of ourself..!
Paul said HE was the chiefest of sinners...well in that sence...I'm close enough to him in the "sinners line" that I don't have to rasie my voice to speak with em...!
GAL 6:1:3....is always the reason behind MY posting...!
Just for the record, I agree that Michael is in no way Jesus or vice versa. But if I'm wrong about something I wouldn't deleted every thing I ever posted here and I wish you wouldn't either PC.
Eph writes...
I concur.....No one is perfect...Nor do we ever reach a state in our walk with the Lord...where we can sit back and say " I know it all "...
We're not goning to be judged on how much we know...But WHO we know..!
The object is to be honest with each other in our postings and when we make a mistake..learn from it...and grow from it and teach others not to make the same mistakes we've made or learned...!
Helping others to avoid the dicthes in life we might have just crawled out of ourself..!
Paul said HE was the chiefest of sinners...well in that sence...I'm close enough to him in the "sinners line" that I don't have to rasie my voice to speak with em...!
GAL 6:1:3....is always the reason behind MY posting...!
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Greetings. Dear Ephriam.
Eph quote,,, What I percive Michael the Archangel mentioned in JUDE 9...is Michael is an ArchAngel...He's not Jesus Christ...he's a created being...!
P C asks Show me, please where the Bible states that Michael was created.
Jesus has other names do you know any apart from His obvious titles?
Greetings Douglas,
Douglas quote,,, "Also, there is a huge problem with your interpretation that it was Jesus who contended with Satan over Moses' body: Jesus was (and is) God, correct? Well, as such, why would Jesus be hesitant to Himself rebuke Satan, especially when at the time Jesus was not yet come as a man and thus was not yet subject to temptation? For that matter, when Jesus WAS tempted by Satan, and had come as a man and was subject to temptation, Jesus was not at all hesitant to HIMSELF rebuke Satan ("Get thee behind me, Satan!"). Your interpretation is contradicted by Biblical indications, examples, and teachings, I'm afraid."
PC Dear Douglas,, to the first part of your statement above may I suggest that Jesus carries many titles.The one being Michael the archangel.
It is as Michael that contended about the body of Moses it will be Michael that will stand when the little horn speaks great words against the Most High, that is His position.
As the Lamb Jesus takes the lost inheritance back as a Family member of, the family of Adam becoming the second Adam another title.
As a man as the second Adam He is able to meet the requirements of the court to find Him worthy to open the Book. It is a man that is the only type that can do this, but men are not worthy.
As God, Jesus does not have the right to claim back the Deeds lost by Adam to the prince of Darkness.
Jesus The son of man was tempted by Satan on Earth and rebuked Satan as a man for that was his role. He had to earn the right as a man, who overcame sin to be qualified and die to pay for that right. The price could only be met by God. God had to take the title as man but be God and die to reach the price of our salvation.
Also Jesus came as a man to Earth, before He became the son of the virgin Mary as The Son of man.
He also walked with men.
However when Moses wanted to see Him he was told that he could not look upon God. Exodus 33 20.And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
This is also why Jesus has different Titles and roles and appears as a man or as an Angel, so that His Godliness and glory does not destroy us.
We as humans have titles as to the jobs we do and our titles change daily depending the role we play.
However Jesus has yet to be found worthy to be judged by created beings before He can take His Glory, Honour, Kingdom and Might as the Lamb in Rev 5.
He has to appear in court as a man to claim back the Lost inheritance, also as the Lamb to pay the price for us to be saved.
He had to live here as a son of Adam to get the deeds back as a squatter, as the second Adam. He is also called the second Adam.
1 Corinthians 15: 45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
As each specific legal role is required to be met and Jesus, as the role player must conform to the legal requirements of the court, yet to sit.
I do not wish to offend you Douglas or Epriam or anyone by the things I see and understand I simply gave you all too much without going in gently and explaining myself.
I know you love Jesus and our Father dearly as this is evident by the way you wish to deffend HIM.
This subject of the two Witnesses is not a salvation issue it is an interesting subject, that's all.
However the way our Dear Lord Jesus performs all His duties rightly with exacting correctness, is a Reflection of HIS humility and thoroughness and care in his Quest to Save us and to our world and I believe the Universe.
Satan means Accuser and he is cunning this is why Jesus must do everything absolutely correctly.
I hope you can understand that I do not insult our Lord by degrading HIS position in any way, I do not and could not. I just want to show the character of God through the Humility and grace of Jesus.
Jesus is Humble, He is not too proud to take the Titles of Man or Angel, that is His character of love and humility. This is why the most important commandment is numbered one. He needs our love because that is the way HE is. We like to see our children take care of each other. Jesus wants to see us as His children do the same. He knows us and we know our God even though we do not agree on all aspects of the Book we are all waiting and watching.
Maranatha
P C
Eph quote,,, What I percive Michael the Archangel mentioned in JUDE 9...is Michael is an ArchAngel...He's not Jesus Christ...he's a created being...!
P C asks Show me, please where the Bible states that Michael was created.
Jesus has other names do you know any apart from His obvious titles?
Greetings Douglas,
Douglas quote,,, "Also, there is a huge problem with your interpretation that it was Jesus who contended with Satan over Moses' body: Jesus was (and is) God, correct? Well, as such, why would Jesus be hesitant to Himself rebuke Satan, especially when at the time Jesus was not yet come as a man and thus was not yet subject to temptation? For that matter, when Jesus WAS tempted by Satan, and had come as a man and was subject to temptation, Jesus was not at all hesitant to HIMSELF rebuke Satan ("Get thee behind me, Satan!"). Your interpretation is contradicted by Biblical indications, examples, and teachings, I'm afraid."
PC Dear Douglas,, to the first part of your statement above may I suggest that Jesus carries many titles.The one being Michael the archangel.
It is as Michael that contended about the body of Moses it will be Michael that will stand when the little horn speaks great words against the Most High, that is His position.
As the Lamb Jesus takes the lost inheritance back as a Family member of, the family of Adam becoming the second Adam another title.
As a man as the second Adam He is able to meet the requirements of the court to find Him worthy to open the Book. It is a man that is the only type that can do this, but men are not worthy.
As God, Jesus does not have the right to claim back the Deeds lost by Adam to the prince of Darkness.
Jesus The son of man was tempted by Satan on Earth and rebuked Satan as a man for that was his role. He had to earn the right as a man, who overcame sin to be qualified and die to pay for that right. The price could only be met by God. God had to take the title as man but be God and die to reach the price of our salvation.
Also Jesus came as a man to Earth, before He became the son of the virgin Mary as The Son of man.
He also walked with men.
However when Moses wanted to see Him he was told that he could not look upon God. Exodus 33 20.And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
This is also why Jesus has different Titles and roles and appears as a man or as an Angel, so that His Godliness and glory does not destroy us.
We as humans have titles as to the jobs we do and our titles change daily depending the role we play.
However Jesus has yet to be found worthy to be judged by created beings before He can take His Glory, Honour, Kingdom and Might as the Lamb in Rev 5.
He has to appear in court as a man to claim back the Lost inheritance, also as the Lamb to pay the price for us to be saved.
He had to live here as a son of Adam to get the deeds back as a squatter, as the second Adam. He is also called the second Adam.
1 Corinthians 15: 45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
As each specific legal role is required to be met and Jesus, as the role player must conform to the legal requirements of the court, yet to sit.
I do not wish to offend you Douglas or Epriam or anyone by the things I see and understand I simply gave you all too much without going in gently and explaining myself.
I know you love Jesus and our Father dearly as this is evident by the way you wish to deffend HIM.
This subject of the two Witnesses is not a salvation issue it is an interesting subject, that's all.
However the way our Dear Lord Jesus performs all His duties rightly with exacting correctness, is a Reflection of HIS humility and thoroughness and care in his Quest to Save us and to our world and I believe the Universe.
Satan means Accuser and he is cunning this is why Jesus must do everything absolutely correctly.
I hope you can understand that I do not insult our Lord by degrading HIS position in any way, I do not and could not. I just want to show the character of God through the Humility and grace of Jesus.
Jesus is Humble, He is not too proud to take the Titles of Man or Angel, that is His character of love and humility. This is why the most important commandment is numbered one. He needs our love because that is the way HE is. We like to see our children take care of each other. Jesus wants to see us as His children do the same. He knows us and we know our God even though we do not agree on all aspects of the Book we are all waiting and watching.
Maranatha
P C
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Originally posted by Prophecy Countdown
Greetings. Dear Ephriam.
Eph quote,,, What I percive Michael the Archangel mentioned in JUDE 9...is Michael is an ArchAngel...He's not Jesus Christ...he's a created being...!
P C asks Show me, please where the Bible states that Michael was created.
Jesus has other names do you know any apart from His obvious titles?
Eph replies....
No problem PC I'm glad you asked...please turn in your Bible to..GEN 2:1:3.."host" in the first verse includes Angels...!
God is not an Angel...!
Just because Jesus says in REV 21:16..what he does..doesn't mean he is "literally" those things...Jesus is not a root...and he's not a "star"...
Jesus also referred to himself as the "door of the sheep" see JOHN 10:7...that doesn't mean Jesus has a hinge bolted to his back PC...!
Someone has fed you bad seed PC...Do you also think Jesus and Satan we brothers wayyyy back there at one point in time..?
God at times DID come down and meet with people...God also sent Angels as his "messengers"...But your confusing Michael the Archangel..with also being Jesus...!
I can't give you a verse because one doesn't exist on it...ALTHOUGH Lucifer is an ANGEL and HE was created...see ISH 14:12:16..notice in the text Lucifer is the subject..yet in verse 16 he's referred to as a "man"...
EZK 28:12:17 is another "proof text" that angels are created beings ..pay close attention to verse 15 here...PC..
Also in the OT...it's always written "the Angel OF the Lord" or "the Angel OF God"....!
It's not ever written...." the Angel IS the Lord "...or " the Angel who IS God "....ect ect..!
Greetings. Dear Ephriam.
Eph quote,,, What I percive Michael the Archangel mentioned in JUDE 9...is Michael is an ArchAngel...He's not Jesus Christ...he's a created being...!
P C asks Show me, please where the Bible states that Michael was created.
Jesus has other names do you know any apart from His obvious titles?
Eph replies....
No problem PC I'm glad you asked...please turn in your Bible to..GEN 2:1:3.."host" in the first verse includes Angels...!
God is not an Angel...!
Just because Jesus says in REV 21:16..what he does..doesn't mean he is "literally" those things...Jesus is not a root...and he's not a "star"...
Jesus also referred to himself as the "door of the sheep" see JOHN 10:7...that doesn't mean Jesus has a hinge bolted to his back PC...!
Someone has fed you bad seed PC...Do you also think Jesus and Satan we brothers wayyyy back there at one point in time..?
God at times DID come down and meet with people...God also sent Angels as his "messengers"...But your confusing Michael the Archangel..with also being Jesus...!
I can't give you a verse because one doesn't exist on it...ALTHOUGH Lucifer is an ANGEL and HE was created...see ISH 14:12:16..notice in the text Lucifer is the subject..yet in verse 16 he's referred to as a "man"...
EZK 28:12:17 is another "proof text" that angels are created beings ..pay close attention to verse 15 here...PC..
Also in the OT...it's always written "the Angel OF the Lord" or "the Angel OF God"....!
It's not ever written...." the Angel IS the Lord "...or " the Angel who IS God "....ect ect..!
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Originally posted by Prophecy Countdown
.
Eph quote,,, What I percive Michael the Archangel mentioned in JUDE 9...is Michael is an ArchAngel...He's not Jesus Christ...he's a created being...!
P C asks Show me, please where the Bible states that Michael was created.
Jesus has other names do you know any apart from His obvious titles?
Eph replies....
No problem PC I'm glad you asked...please turn in your Bible to..GEN 2:1:3.."host" in the first verse includes Angels...!
EPH REPLY,, God is not an Angel...!
Prophecy Countdown,,,, Jesus is omnipotent and can change HIS role to that of an angel as required, read what the Bible says.
Exodus 3: 2. And THE ANGEL OF THE LORD APPEARED UNTO HIM IN A FLAME of fire OUT of the MIDST of a BUSH: and he LOOKED, and, behold, the BUSH burned with FIRE, and the BUSH was NOT CONSUMED. 3And Moses said, I WILL NOW TURN aside, and SEE this great SIGHT, WHY THE BUSH IS NOT BURNT. 4And when the LORD saw that he TURNED aside TO SEE, GOD CALLED unto him out of the MIDST OF THE BUSH, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5And he said, DRAW NOT NIGH HITHER: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6Moreover he said, I am THE GOD OF THY FATHER, the GOD of ABRAHAM, the GOD of ISAAC, and the GOD of JACOB. And MOSES hid his face; FOR HE WAS AFRAID TO LOOK UPON GOD.
J S My friend, angels often speak for God. They bring a direct message from God exactly as it was spoken of God. It's like God sending a hologram (but real) but what is spoken is from God's own mouth.
P C,,, Sometimes Jesus speaks for Himself as the angel of the Lord.
Prophecy Countdown The angel of the Lord is God. It was the angel of the lord that was in that bush, it was God that told Moses not to draw closer. This is just another reason why I believe that the angel of the Lord is God because the Bible says so. It is not an issue whether angels are created, the Angel of the Lord was not created. Jesus became man incarnate, men are created beings so are angels this is not an issue unless we start deciding what God can and cant do and I will have no part in that.
EPH REPLY,, Just because Jesus says in REV 21:16..what he does..doesn't mean he is "literally" those things...Jesus is not a root...and he's not a "star"...
Prophecy Countdown,, Ephriam you quoted Revelation 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.???? You quoted the wrong passage ,, just as I quoted the wrong author of acts, Well, well, you arent perfect either.
Jesus has a greater brightness than a star and is the root of David
Revelation 5:5. Ezek 1:28.
EPH REPLY,, Jesus also referred to himself as the "door of the sheep" see JOHN 10:7...that doesn't mean Jesus has a hinge bolted to his back PC...!
Prophecy Countdown,, Stop patronising people. There is a great deal of difference as to when Jesus speaks metaphorically about the door, explaining that HE is the entry to Heaven. Your analogy is simplistic to say the least.
EPH REPLY,, Someone has fed you bad seed PC...Do you also think Jesus and Satan we brothers wayyyy back there at one point in time..?
Prophecy Countdown,, The more you speak the closer you get to the pit you are very smug and self opinionated and pompous, that is why you use ridicule. In the guise of stupid inane questions. You act like the Pharisees and Seduces. You are a walking know all, jumping in here and there putting everyone right. Grow up!
Who told me that Jesus and Satan were brothers?
The only person to utter those words to me is you Eph nobody else has even hinted at such an idea even in question form!
A quote from Eph about my study.
That info is down right EVIL ...misleading..and false...!
EPH REPLY,, God at times DID come down and meet with people...God also sent Angels as his "messengers"...But your confusing Michael the Archangel..with also being Jesus...!
Prophecy Countdown,,, No I am not confused at all. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that an archangel is a created being, but you say an archangel is a created being, and on that basis you claim that God cant appear as an Archangel?
Your statement is here-say and a construct. I am pleased that you admit that the Bible does not state that the archangel is a created being. You didnt know that when you blurted out that Archangels are created beings in your haste to be Mr right.
EPH REPLY,, I can't give you a verse because one doesn't exist on it...ALTHOUGH Lucifer is an ANGEL and HE was created...see ISH 14:12:16..notice in the text Lucifer is the subject..yet in verse 16 he's referred to as a "man"...
Prophecy Countdown we were talking of the angel of the Lord and an Archangel! Lucifer is not an angel of the Lord or an archangel, how did you drag him into the scene?
OK your in a corner because you said the Archangel was created but its not in the Bible. So well sort this one out.
Let me explain how the title system works and how an angel becomes a man.
The angel of the morning , Lucifer held the highest position a created being could in Heaven.
The problem started with Lucifer as we shall see read Isaiah 14: in verses 13 to 21 Lucifer wants to be like the most High God. He gained the names of Satan, meaning Accuser, because he accuses. Dragon, Prince of Darkness, because he twists and hides truth. Serpent, because he was in the garden of Eden as a snake tempting Eve.
He will Came down to Earth and cause, a great deal of death and destruction. He works his way down and down to the title of a man.
He keeps working his way to the pit losing all his grandness, finely reaching mortality and then suffering death.
This is how the title system works. There is no mystery or problem in my mind at all, that an angel can change in character and his appearance from angel to man.
Everything Lucifer was given, his beauty and grandeur, were from God but he gave his inheritance away he ends up at the pit as a common man and others notice.
That is how the title system works it works both ways. By our free choice we gain them for ourselves. These labels are a result and reflection of our characters.
The most humble of men will hold the highest places in Heaven.
EPH ,, EZK 28:12:17 is another "proof text" that angels are created beings ..pay close attention to verse 15 here...PC..
Prophecy Countdown,,, This verse is speaking of the angel Lucifer. Ezek 28: 15. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
I have no problem with the fact that Lucifer was created like other angels, because the Bible says so. You seem to limit the power of God by telling me HE cant become an angel wearing that Title when he needs to do certain things, well He can and does. Or do you think, Jesus too proud to take on the mantle of angel?
Or is it that the Lord cant do it because that means Jesus doesnt fit into your conceived character slot?
EPH REPLY,, Also in the OT...it's always written "the Angel OF the Lord" or "the Angel OF God"....!,, It's not ever written...." the Angel IS the Lord "...or " the Angel who IS God "....ect ect..!
Prophecy Countdown ,,, Eph,,,,, IT IS written in the Bible!!!!
Manoah and his wife, state the opposite view to yours.
Manoah and his wifes story is recorded in the BIBLE that Jesus did appear as the angel of the Lord.
Judges 13:21. But THE ANGEL OF THE LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then MANOAH KNEW THAT HE was AN ANGEL of the LORD. 22And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because WE HAVE SEEN GOD. 23But his wife said unto him, If THE LORD were PLEASED TO KILL US, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would HE HAVE shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.
.
Eph quote,,, What I percive Michael the Archangel mentioned in JUDE 9...is Michael is an ArchAngel...He's not Jesus Christ...he's a created being...!
P C asks Show me, please where the Bible states that Michael was created.
Jesus has other names do you know any apart from His obvious titles?
Eph replies....
No problem PC I'm glad you asked...please turn in your Bible to..GEN 2:1:3.."host" in the first verse includes Angels...!
EPH REPLY,, God is not an Angel...!
Prophecy Countdown,,,, Jesus is omnipotent and can change HIS role to that of an angel as required, read what the Bible says.
Exodus 3: 2. And THE ANGEL OF THE LORD APPEARED UNTO HIM IN A FLAME of fire OUT of the MIDST of a BUSH: and he LOOKED, and, behold, the BUSH burned with FIRE, and the BUSH was NOT CONSUMED. 3And Moses said, I WILL NOW TURN aside, and SEE this great SIGHT, WHY THE BUSH IS NOT BURNT. 4And when the LORD saw that he TURNED aside TO SEE, GOD CALLED unto him out of the MIDST OF THE BUSH, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5And he said, DRAW NOT NIGH HITHER: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6Moreover he said, I am THE GOD OF THY FATHER, the GOD of ABRAHAM, the GOD of ISAAC, and the GOD of JACOB. And MOSES hid his face; FOR HE WAS AFRAID TO LOOK UPON GOD.
J S My friend, angels often speak for God. They bring a direct message from God exactly as it was spoken of God. It's like God sending a hologram (but real) but what is spoken is from God's own mouth.
P C,,, Sometimes Jesus speaks for Himself as the angel of the Lord.
Prophecy Countdown The angel of the Lord is God. It was the angel of the lord that was in that bush, it was God that told Moses not to draw closer. This is just another reason why I believe that the angel of the Lord is God because the Bible says so. It is not an issue whether angels are created, the Angel of the Lord was not created. Jesus became man incarnate, men are created beings so are angels this is not an issue unless we start deciding what God can and cant do and I will have no part in that.
EPH REPLY,, Just because Jesus says in REV 21:16..what he does..doesn't mean he is "literally" those things...Jesus is not a root...and he's not a "star"...
Prophecy Countdown,, Ephriam you quoted Revelation 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.???? You quoted the wrong passage ,, just as I quoted the wrong author of acts, Well, well, you arent perfect either.
Jesus has a greater brightness than a star and is the root of David
Revelation 5:5. Ezek 1:28.
EPH REPLY,, Jesus also referred to himself as the "door of the sheep" see JOHN 10:7...that doesn't mean Jesus has a hinge bolted to his back PC...!
Prophecy Countdown,, Stop patronising people. There is a great deal of difference as to when Jesus speaks metaphorically about the door, explaining that HE is the entry to Heaven. Your analogy is simplistic to say the least.
EPH REPLY,, Someone has fed you bad seed PC...Do you also think Jesus and Satan we brothers wayyyy back there at one point in time..?
Prophecy Countdown,, The more you speak the closer you get to the pit you are very smug and self opinionated and pompous, that is why you use ridicule. In the guise of stupid inane questions. You act like the Pharisees and Seduces. You are a walking know all, jumping in here and there putting everyone right. Grow up!
Who told me that Jesus and Satan were brothers?
The only person to utter those words to me is you Eph nobody else has even hinted at such an idea even in question form!
A quote from Eph about my study.
That info is down right EVIL ...misleading..and false...!
EPH REPLY,, God at times DID come down and meet with people...God also sent Angels as his "messengers"...But your confusing Michael the Archangel..with also being Jesus...!
Prophecy Countdown,,, No I am not confused at all. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that an archangel is a created being, but you say an archangel is a created being, and on that basis you claim that God cant appear as an Archangel?
Your statement is here-say and a construct. I am pleased that you admit that the Bible does not state that the archangel is a created being. You didnt know that when you blurted out that Archangels are created beings in your haste to be Mr right.
EPH REPLY,, I can't give you a verse because one doesn't exist on it...ALTHOUGH Lucifer is an ANGEL and HE was created...see ISH 14:12:16..notice in the text Lucifer is the subject..yet in verse 16 he's referred to as a "man"...
Prophecy Countdown we were talking of the angel of the Lord and an Archangel! Lucifer is not an angel of the Lord or an archangel, how did you drag him into the scene?
OK your in a corner because you said the Archangel was created but its not in the Bible. So well sort this one out.
Let me explain how the title system works and how an angel becomes a man.
The angel of the morning , Lucifer held the highest position a created being could in Heaven.
The problem started with Lucifer as we shall see read Isaiah 14: in verses 13 to 21 Lucifer wants to be like the most High God. He gained the names of Satan, meaning Accuser, because he accuses. Dragon, Prince of Darkness, because he twists and hides truth. Serpent, because he was in the garden of Eden as a snake tempting Eve.
He will Came down to Earth and cause, a great deal of death and destruction. He works his way down and down to the title of a man.
He keeps working his way to the pit losing all his grandness, finely reaching mortality and then suffering death.
This is how the title system works. There is no mystery or problem in my mind at all, that an angel can change in character and his appearance from angel to man.
Everything Lucifer was given, his beauty and grandeur, were from God but he gave his inheritance away he ends up at the pit as a common man and others notice.
That is how the title system works it works both ways. By our free choice we gain them for ourselves. These labels are a result and reflection of our characters.
The most humble of men will hold the highest places in Heaven.
EPH ,, EZK 28:12:17 is another "proof text" that angels are created beings ..pay close attention to verse 15 here...PC..
Prophecy Countdown,,, This verse is speaking of the angel Lucifer. Ezek 28: 15. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
I have no problem with the fact that Lucifer was created like other angels, because the Bible says so. You seem to limit the power of God by telling me HE cant become an angel wearing that Title when he needs to do certain things, well He can and does. Or do you think, Jesus too proud to take on the mantle of angel?
Or is it that the Lord cant do it because that means Jesus doesnt fit into your conceived character slot?
EPH REPLY,, Also in the OT...it's always written "the Angel OF the Lord" or "the Angel OF God"....!,, It's not ever written...." the Angel IS the Lord "...or " the Angel who IS God "....ect ect..!
Prophecy Countdown ,,, Eph,,,,, IT IS written in the Bible!!!!
Manoah and his wife, state the opposite view to yours.
Manoah and his wifes story is recorded in the BIBLE that Jesus did appear as the angel of the Lord.
Judges 13:21. But THE ANGEL OF THE LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then MANOAH KNEW THAT HE was AN ANGEL of the LORD. 22And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because WE HAVE SEEN GOD. 23But his wife said unto him, If THE LORD were PLEASED TO KILL US, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would HE HAVE shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.
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EPH REPLY,, Notice at no time did the 3 correct Abe for calling them Lord..IF the 3 were ANGELS..they would have...!
All through this 18 th chapter they speak as one...yet Abe talks to them in the singular and in verse 4 Abe uses the plural..In verse 17 thru 19....."God" actually has a 3 person conversation with "himself"about Abe...!
But at no time according to the first verses context...should they be called angels..or MEN..
Prophecy Countdown,,, well I have shown that the Bibles states that the angel of God is God recognised as God. Also Jacob wrestled a man and called HIM GOD.
I also disagree with your personal explanation of Abraham in Geneses 18. I may follow it up if I have time.
Also heres more Bible to prove Jesus has another name and did walk as a MAN as a Priests in fact.
Who is Melchisedec?
1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation KING OF RIGHTIOUSNESS, and after that also King of SALEM, which is, King of peace; 3WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DECENT, having neither BEGINNING OF DAYS NOR END OF LIFE,; but made like unto THE SON OF GOD; abideth a PRIEST CONTINUALLY. 4Now consider how GREAT THIS MAN was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. 5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: 6But HE WHOSE DESCENT is not counted from THEM received TITHES of Abraham, and BLESSED him that had the promises. 7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he LIVETH. 9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Hebrews 5: 10. Called of God an HIGH PRIEST after the order of Melchisedec. 11Of whom we have MANY THINGSTO SAY, and hard to be UTTERED, seeing YE ARE DULL of HEARING. 12For when for the TIME ye OUGHT to be TEACHERS, ye have NEED that one TEACH YOUAGAIN which be the FIRST PRINCIPLES of the ORACLE of God; and are become such as have NEED OF MILK, and not of DTRONG MEAT. 13For every one that USETH MILK is UNSKILLED in the WORD of RIGHTIOUSNESS: for he is a BABE. 14But STRONG MEAT belongeth to THEM that are of FULL AGE, even those who BY REASON OF USE have their SENSES EXERCISED to DISCERN both GOOD and EVIL.
All I ask is. Read what the Bible says. Just read it with an open mind.
Maranatha,
Prophecy Countdown
All through this 18 th chapter they speak as one...yet Abe talks to them in the singular and in verse 4 Abe uses the plural..In verse 17 thru 19....."God" actually has a 3 person conversation with "himself"about Abe...!
But at no time according to the first verses context...should they be called angels..or MEN..
Prophecy Countdown,,, well I have shown that the Bibles states that the angel of God is God recognised as God. Also Jacob wrestled a man and called HIM GOD.
I also disagree with your personal explanation of Abraham in Geneses 18. I may follow it up if I have time.
Also heres more Bible to prove Jesus has another name and did walk as a MAN as a Priests in fact.
Who is Melchisedec?
1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation KING OF RIGHTIOUSNESS, and after that also King of SALEM, which is, King of peace; 3WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DECENT, having neither BEGINNING OF DAYS NOR END OF LIFE,; but made like unto THE SON OF GOD; abideth a PRIEST CONTINUALLY. 4Now consider how GREAT THIS MAN was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. 5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: 6But HE WHOSE DESCENT is not counted from THEM received TITHES of Abraham, and BLESSED him that had the promises. 7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he LIVETH. 9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Hebrews 5: 10. Called of God an HIGH PRIEST after the order of Melchisedec. 11Of whom we have MANY THINGSTO SAY, and hard to be UTTERED, seeing YE ARE DULL of HEARING. 12For when for the TIME ye OUGHT to be TEACHERS, ye have NEED that one TEACH YOUAGAIN which be the FIRST PRINCIPLES of the ORACLE of God; and are become such as have NEED OF MILK, and not of DTRONG MEAT. 13For every one that USETH MILK is UNSKILLED in the WORD of RIGHTIOUSNESS: for he is a BABE. 14But STRONG MEAT belongeth to THEM that are of FULL AGE, even those who BY REASON OF USE have their SENSES EXERCISED to DISCERN both GOOD and EVIL.
All I ask is. Read what the Bible says. Just read it with an open mind.
Maranatha,
Prophecy Countdown
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Prophecy Countdown, greetings 66Books, Higher Truth.
CAN Jesus take the title angel, archangel, and Michael?
I say He can.
Eph writes...
Higher Truth....I would "strongly" suggest you Re-double your study efforts with reguards to "PC's postings"....!
I find them chock full of MISINFORMATION...not based on scriptures...
What you can do is ASK him or her for the scripture that the information is based on..and then be as the Berean's of Acts 17 were...They searched the scriptures daily to SEE for themselves if what was being taught to them was truthful or not...!
The "claim" by PC in the post...that Jesus is no more than a CREATED Angel...should run the "red flag" up the pole quite quickly..!
_________________________________________________
Prophecy answers. I did not state that Jesus is no more than a CREATED Angel..
This is but one reason I lifted my postings because of the false statements attributed to me by Ephriam and others.
Gen 16:10. And THE ANGEL OF THE LORD SAID UNTO HER, I WILL MULTIPLY THY SEED EXCEEDINGLY, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Now if there is only one Creator, THE ANGEL OF THE LORD said I WILL MULTIPLY YOUR SEED.
THE ANGEL OF THE LORD is Jesus.
Only Jesus the Creator could make such a claim
created angels would not. It would be a sin.
Ephriams quote to Higher Truth.
What you can do is ASK him or her for the scripture that the information is based on..and then be as the Berean's of Acts 17 were...They searched the scriptures daily to SEE for themselves if what was being taught to them was truthful or not...!
Dear Higher Truth, and 66Books, Lets look at the Bible on this and work it out for ourselves without the thought cop jumping all over us.
Angel of the Lord. Gen 16: 7. And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
10And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
The special form in which God manifested Himself to man, and hence Christs visible form before the incarnation. Compare the following texts.
Acts 7:30. And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
31When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
32Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.
33Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.
34I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
35This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
36He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
37This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us.
ANGELS.
By the word angels (i.e., messengers of God) we ordinarily understand a race of spiritual beings of a nature exalted far above that of man, although infinitely removed from that of God-whose office is to do Him service in Heaven, and by His appointment to succor and defend men on Earth.
1. scriptural use of the word.
There are many passages in which the expression angel of God is certainly used for a manifestation of God Himself.
Genesis 22:11 with 12. And THE ANGEL OF THE LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son FROM ME.
Ex3: 2 with 6 and 14.
2And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent ME unto you.
It is to be observed, also, that side by side with these expressions we read of Gods being manifested in the form of man-as to Abraham at Mamre, Gen 18:, 2, 22.
Compare Jacob at Penuel, Gen32:24,30.
24And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacobs thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: FOR I HAVE SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE, and my LIFE IS PRESERVED.
Compare Joshua at Gilgal,
Josh 5: 13, 15.
13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood A MAN over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14And he said, Nay; but captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And JOSHUA FELL ON HIS FACE to the earth, and DID WORSHIP, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15And the captain of the LORDS host said unto Joshua, LOOSE thy SHOE from OFF thy FOOT; for the place whereon thou standest is HOLY. And Joshua did so.
This is the highest application of the word angel that I can think of, as it is applicable to God in the above verses, therefore not a created angel but the angel of the Lord omnipotent.
Prince is another title for Jesus
Proverbs 25:7. For better that it be said unto thee, CIME UP HITHER; than that thou shouldest be put lower in the presence of the PRINCE WHOM THINE EYES HAVE SEEN.
Isaiah 9: 6. For unto us a CHILD IS BORN, unto us A SON is given: and the government shall be upon HIS shoulder: and HIS name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The PRINCE of Peace.
Acts 3: 14, 15. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the PRINCE of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Rev 1: 5. And from JESUS CHRIST, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the PRINCE OF KINGS of the earth. Unto HIM that LOVED us, and washed us from our sins in his OWN BLOOD,
Acts 5: 31. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a PRINCE and a SAVIOUR, for to give repentance to ISRAEL, and forgiveness of sins.
In the following Bible verse the Angel speaks of the Prince that stands for thy people , that Prince is Jesus. The Prince is also known as Michael, but there is only one Prince of Israel that God exalted with his right hand a PRINCE, Only one stands for Israel only one, therefore Michael standing, is Jesus wearing another title.
Dan 12: 1.And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great PRINCE WHICH STANDETH FOR THE CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Jesus has many guises, several he has had to earn, such as, the Lamb, the second Adam, Jesus needs to fulfill these specific roles with the titles that are appropriate. Michael does not appear in the court to claim the title of His kingdom on Earth, only the Lamb as a MAN can do this to be worthy to open the Book needed a man, which no man could achieve, eccept Christ as the Son of David the son of Adam.
Maranatha
P. C.
CAN Jesus take the title angel, archangel, and Michael?
I say He can.
Eph writes...
Higher Truth....I would "strongly" suggest you Re-double your study efforts with reguards to "PC's postings"....!
I find them chock full of MISINFORMATION...not based on scriptures...
What you can do is ASK him or her for the scripture that the information is based on..and then be as the Berean's of Acts 17 were...They searched the scriptures daily to SEE for themselves if what was being taught to them was truthful or not...!
The "claim" by PC in the post...that Jesus is no more than a CREATED Angel...should run the "red flag" up the pole quite quickly..!
_________________________________________________
Prophecy answers. I did not state that Jesus is no more than a CREATED Angel..
This is but one reason I lifted my postings because of the false statements attributed to me by Ephriam and others.
Gen 16:10. And THE ANGEL OF THE LORD SAID UNTO HER, I WILL MULTIPLY THY SEED EXCEEDINGLY, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Now if there is only one Creator, THE ANGEL OF THE LORD said I WILL MULTIPLY YOUR SEED.
THE ANGEL OF THE LORD is Jesus.
Only Jesus the Creator could make such a claim
created angels would not. It would be a sin.
Ephriams quote to Higher Truth.
What you can do is ASK him or her for the scripture that the information is based on..and then be as the Berean's of Acts 17 were...They searched the scriptures daily to SEE for themselves if what was being taught to them was truthful or not...!
Dear Higher Truth, and 66Books, Lets look at the Bible on this and work it out for ourselves without the thought cop jumping all over us.
Angel of the Lord. Gen 16: 7. And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
10And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
The special form in which God manifested Himself to man, and hence Christs visible form before the incarnation. Compare the following texts.
Acts 7:30. And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
31When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
32Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.
33Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.
34I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
35This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
36He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
37This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us.
ANGELS.
By the word angels (i.e., messengers of God) we ordinarily understand a race of spiritual beings of a nature exalted far above that of man, although infinitely removed from that of God-whose office is to do Him service in Heaven, and by His appointment to succor and defend men on Earth.
1. scriptural use of the word.
There are many passages in which the expression angel of God is certainly used for a manifestation of God Himself.
Genesis 22:11 with 12. And THE ANGEL OF THE LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son FROM ME.
Ex3: 2 with 6 and 14.
2And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent ME unto you.
It is to be observed, also, that side by side with these expressions we read of Gods being manifested in the form of man-as to Abraham at Mamre, Gen 18:, 2, 22.
Compare Jacob at Penuel, Gen32:24,30.
24And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacobs thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: FOR I HAVE SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE, and my LIFE IS PRESERVED.
Compare Joshua at Gilgal,
Josh 5: 13, 15.
13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood A MAN over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14And he said, Nay; but captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And JOSHUA FELL ON HIS FACE to the earth, and DID WORSHIP, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15And the captain of the LORDS host said unto Joshua, LOOSE thy SHOE from OFF thy FOOT; for the place whereon thou standest is HOLY. And Joshua did so.
This is the highest application of the word angel that I can think of, as it is applicable to God in the above verses, therefore not a created angel but the angel of the Lord omnipotent.
Prince is another title for Jesus
Proverbs 25:7. For better that it be said unto thee, CIME UP HITHER; than that thou shouldest be put lower in the presence of the PRINCE WHOM THINE EYES HAVE SEEN.
Isaiah 9: 6. For unto us a CHILD IS BORN, unto us A SON is given: and the government shall be upon HIS shoulder: and HIS name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The PRINCE of Peace.
Acts 3: 14, 15. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the PRINCE of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Rev 1: 5. And from JESUS CHRIST, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the PRINCE OF KINGS of the earth. Unto HIM that LOVED us, and washed us from our sins in his OWN BLOOD,
Acts 5: 31. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a PRINCE and a SAVIOUR, for to give repentance to ISRAEL, and forgiveness of sins.
In the following Bible verse the Angel speaks of the Prince that stands for thy people , that Prince is Jesus. The Prince is also known as Michael, but there is only one Prince of Israel that God exalted with his right hand a PRINCE, Only one stands for Israel only one, therefore Michael standing, is Jesus wearing another title.
Dan 12: 1.And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great PRINCE WHICH STANDETH FOR THE CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Jesus has many guises, several he has had to earn, such as, the Lamb, the second Adam, Jesus needs to fulfill these specific roles with the titles that are appropriate. Michael does not appear in the court to claim the title of His kingdom on Earth, only the Lamb as a MAN can do this to be worthy to open the Book needed a man, which no man could achieve, eccept Christ as the Son of David the son of Adam.
Maranatha
P. C.
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Originally posted by Prophecy Countdown , greetings 66Books, Higher Truth.
CAN Jesus take the title angel, archangel, and Michael?
I say He can.
Eph replies...
What YOU say he can do...and what the BIBLE says he has..are two different things...PC !
Jesus claimed to be the LAMB of God...That doesn't mean he walks on all fours and goes "baaaa"....!
Now HE sure could if he wanted to....But he never has according to the Bible..!
PC said...
Prophecy answers. I did not state that Jesus is no more than a CREATED Angel..
This is but one reason I lifted my postings because of the false statements attributed to me by Ephriam and others
Eph writes...
OHHH thats where your wrong...PC...By saying Jesus is an Angel...your ALSO saying ( knowingly or unknowingly )..that He is a created being...!
CAN Jesus take the title angel, archangel, and Michael?
I say He can.
Eph replies...
What YOU say he can do...and what the BIBLE says he has..are two different things...PC !
Jesus claimed to be the LAMB of God...That doesn't mean he walks on all fours and goes "baaaa"....!
Now HE sure could if he wanted to....But he never has according to the Bible..!
PC said...
Prophecy answers. I did not state that Jesus is no more than a CREATED Angel..
This is but one reason I lifted my postings because of the false statements attributed to me by Ephriam and others
Eph writes...
OHHH thats where your wrong...PC...By saying Jesus is an Angel...your ALSO saying ( knowingly or unknowingly )..that He is a created being...!
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Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
Originally posted by Prophecy Countdown , greetings 66Books, Higher Truth.
CAN Jesus take the title angel, archangel, and Michael?
I say He can.
Eph replies...
What YOU say he can do...and what the BIBLE says he has..are two different things...PC !
Jesus claimed to be the LAMB of God...That doesn't mean he walks on all fours and goes "baaaa"....!
Now HE sure could if he wanted to....But he never has according to the Bible..!
PC said...
Prophecy answers. I did not state that Jesus is no more than a CREATED Angel..
This is but one reason I lifted my postings because of the false statements attributed to me by Ephriam and others
Eph writes...
OHHH thats where your wrong...PC...By saying Jesus is an Angel...your ALSO saying ( knowingly or unknowingly )..that He is a created being...!
You lifted your posts..ONLY to cover your tracks....But you can't "lift" mine...and I directly copied and quoted yours...!
Your "cat" so to speak..is OUT of the bag...!
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I have checked many versions of that verse ( Matthew 17:4) and in none of them can I find where it says that Peter wanted to make altars to worship Moses.
Three shelters ~ NIV
Three tabernacles ~ KJ ~ NKJ
Three booths ~ YLT
These are the different translations I have found, but none say altars, can you tell me which translation says that please eph?
TY!
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Greetings Sonworshipper, that is an excellent point.
Ephriam claims that Moses and Elijah came in spirit form and were transformed in Matt 17: 1. But when I read it, it says only Jesus was transfigured and "then" Moses and Elijah turn up to talk to Jesus. God never said not to listen to the two Prophets as Ephriam claims, but he never admits error even when the Bible states the opposite view.
Matt 17:1. And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, <SUP>2</SUP>And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. <SUP>3</SUP>And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Maranatha
Prophecy Countdown.
Ephriam claims that Moses and Elijah came in spirit form and were transformed in Matt 17: 1. But when I read it, it says only Jesus was transfigured and "then" Moses and Elijah turn up to talk to Jesus. God never said not to listen to the two Prophets as Ephriam claims, but he never admits error even when the Bible states the opposite view.
Matt 17:1. And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, <SUP>2</SUP>And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. <SUP>3</SUP>And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Maranatha
Prophecy Countdown.
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Originally posted by sonworshipper
I have checked many versions of that verse ( Matthew 17:4) and in none of them can I find where it says that Peter wanted to make altars to worship Moses.
Three shelters ~ NIV
Three tabernacles ~ KJ ~ NKJ
Three booths ~ YLT
These are the different translations I have found, but none say altars, can you tell me which translation says that please eph?
TY!
Eph kindly replies...
A alter is a place of worship..BUT the word used is "tabernacle"..
IT was something that Peter was gonna built right then and there...Now at the top of that MT...there wasn't a Home Depot around...So Peter was gonna build an "alter"..or a tabernacle....Noah built them..Jacob built them...Abraham built them...out of stones..!
PETER wanted to build 3....tabernacles and thus worship all 3...!
BUT..in all fairness YOUR correct..the word used IS tabernacle...So I stand corrected...
Peter wanted to build 3 tabernacles...( that being a place of worship "could" also be called alters )...!
An alter was a place of sacrifice and worship...BTW..!
So that being said...whats yer point..?
I have checked many versions of that verse ( Matthew 17:4) and in none of them can I find where it says that Peter wanted to make altars to worship Moses.
Three shelters ~ NIV
Three tabernacles ~ KJ ~ NKJ
Three booths ~ YLT
These are the different translations I have found, but none say altars, can you tell me which translation says that please eph?
TY!
Eph kindly replies...
A alter is a place of worship..BUT the word used is "tabernacle"..
IT was something that Peter was gonna built right then and there...Now at the top of that MT...there wasn't a Home Depot around...So Peter was gonna build an "alter"..or a tabernacle....Noah built them..Jacob built them...Abraham built them...out of stones..!
PETER wanted to build 3....tabernacles and thus worship all 3...!
BUT..in all fairness YOUR correct..the word used IS tabernacle...So I stand corrected...
Peter wanted to build 3 tabernacles...( that being a place of worship "could" also be called alters )...!
An alter was a place of sacrifice and worship...BTW..!
So that being said...whats yer point..?
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