Welcome Preterists and Futurists! Let's hash it out.

"You say the promise to Israel (of a better covenant) has not been kept yet. I say it has. Hebrews 8 & 9 prove this. The Jewish/Mosaic law was passing away in the first century. In its place is the new, perfect covenant that Christ made with ALL mankind."

"Hebrews 8:10: This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel."

Joj says.......Notice He said "I will make" This is future. He had already told His disciples He would not partake of the New Covenant till He partook of it with them in His Fathers kingdom. If this is His kingdom NOW, I wouldn't want to be a part of it for eternity. Do you?

Jesus also told His chosen twelve that they would rule with Him over the 12 tribes of Judah in His kingdom from 12 thrones. Where are these guys ruling from today? Where are their subjects?

Hebrews 9:15: For this reason he is the mediator of a new covenant.

Hebrews 9:26: But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to remove sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 9:12: he entered once for all into the Holy Place, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:14: How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to worship the living God.

"So after reading these passages, it is clear that the covenant which was promised to Israel was indeed Christs sacrifice on the cross."

I disagree, it is clear the new covenant was what He said it was, He would write His law on their (Israels) inward parts etc. etc. Just like it says. The shed blood was more like the down payment for it. He did say, "this is the New Covenant in My blood". He didn't say My blood IS THE NEW COVENANT did He? I ask, what did those scriptures say was the new covenant? You stopped short of posting what they did actually say. Why?

"Do you believe this redemption was only meant for Israel?"

No, His redemption was for all men, Jew and Gentile.

"Please explain? "

Whats there to explain? The new covenant is to be made with the "House of Israel" like the scriptures said. The New Covenant is also just what the scriptures said. The law is not in all of Israels hearst. To this day, most Israelites deny Jesus was the Christ let alone have no need of teaching one another Gods word. The scriptures said they (Israelites) would ALL know Him how do you figure this has happened already?

Gods original covenant with Israel goes way back to genesis. We find out He will make a new covenant with Israel later on in the old testament. Please note that these covenants were made and were to be made with Israel, Abrahams seed, those who were not cut off from God like everyone else as long as they were circumcised and kept the commandments God laid out for them.

The Body of Christ, Jew and Gentile saved through faith in the death burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ are not in a covenant relationship with God. If you believe we are, would you care to show me the covenant? And could you explain how we (gentiles) who were never included in the Old Covenant, (unless we converted to Judaism) could even possibly be entitled to a new covenant since we never had an old one?

His........Joj

parousia....something for you to chew on while you think.

In Jesus parables, He went on to explain them in detail. Other metaphores like Lion of the tribe of Judah and Lamb of God are simple to figure out. They dont require much imagination to figure them out either.

Why would the lions and bears and asps and such have no clear explanation if they are something else? How much imagination is it gonna take for you to explain them individualy and why wont the scriptures bear whatever you can imagine out?

His.......Joj

Joj,
You claim the old covenant was "nailed to the cross", but the writer of Hebrews , in the 60's AD, infallibly claims it had not yet vanished as of that time:

Hebrews 8:13
In that he says a new covenant he has made the first obsolete, Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

A couple things here Joj, you asked me to show the contrast between the law of Moses and the law of Christ. there you go! 

Again, you claim the old covenant vanished at the cross, but the writer of Hebrews infallibly claims that as of the 60's AD, it had not yet vanished, but was in process of "Growing old, and was at that time "ready" to vanish.

I trust you can understand why I choose to side with the writer of Hebrews over your opinion on the matter.

Peace,
p70

Originally posted by Joj


Whats there to explain? The new covenant is to be made with the "House of Israel" like the scriptures said. The New Covenant is also just what the scriptures said. The law is not in all of Israels hearst. To this day, most Israelites deny Jesus was the Christ let alone have no need of teaching one another Gods word. The scriptures said they (Israelites) would ALL know Him how do you figure this has happened already?

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Joj, the people who today reside in the patch of land we call "Israel" have a much right to the name "Israel" as I have the right to claim I am Jesus Christ in the flesh.

Jesus and His JEWISH followers were TRUE Israel, and the rest were cut off in the 1st century, as fortold by Moses.

Jesus and His JEWISH followers, with gentiles grafted in, were / are the "Israel of God".

Any other who claims to be "Israel" is an imposter.

Gods original covenant with Israel goes way back to genesis. We find out He will make a new covenant with Israel later on in the old testament. Please note that these covenants were made and were to be made with Israel, Abrahams seed, those who were not cut off from God like everyone else as long as they were circumcised and kept the commandments God laid out for them.

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Again, scripture teaches that "Not all who are OF Israel ARE Israel. Abrahams seed are by faith, not DNA. Todays "Jews" are imposters with no verifiable claim to the name "Israel". There is no "Israel" apart from faith in Christ.


The Church, made up of Jesus and His JEWISH followers, with gentiles grafted in, is the "Israel of God".

Peace,

p70

"Joj,
You claim the old covenant was "nailed to the cross", but the writer of Hebrews , in the 60's AD, infallibly claims it had not yet vanished as of that time:"

Paul tells us that the law was nailed to the cross with Christ, it isnt just me who claims it. Its a fact. It was after the cross some time that that fact was revealed, as Paul wasn't saved for some time after the cross and had this revealed to him. The reason the writer of Hebrews is speaking as such is because those Israelites he is adressing were saved under the old economy. They had believed Jesus was their promised and prophesied messiah, and were still to follow His commandments just as Jesus told His followers to do before He ascended. They had to endure till the end.

"Hebrews 8:13
In that he says a new covenant he has made the first obsolete, Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

A couple things here Joj, you asked me to show the contrast between the law of Moses and the law of Christ. there you go! "

I agree, the reason it was growing old and about to vanish away was because all those saved under the old program, (believing Jesus was the Messiah) were dying off, and all would eventualy all be dead.

"Again, you claim the old covenant vanished at the cross, but the writer of Hebrews infallibly claims that as of the 60's AD, it had not yet vanished, but was in process of "Growing old, and was at that time "ready" to vanish."

I didnt say the old covenant vanished at the cross now did I? I said simply that the law was nailed to the cross with Christ as it was. As I alluded to earlier, those Jews saved by believing Jesus was their messiah, they believed the gospel of the kingdom, and were saved by believing as such, but were still required to keep the commandments.

There were also Jews that were saved after Paul was raised up by believing the gospel of the grace of God, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Jew and gentile were now apart from the law saved through faith in the death burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ. One gospel had the kingdom in view and had been prophesied since the foundation of the world, the other had been hid in God since before the foundation of the world and Has a heavenly calling.

You see, there was more than one good news/ gospel. Gospel of the kingdom. Gospel of Gods grace. The confusion comes from trying to mix the two. They dont mix, they just confuse.

"I trust you can understand why I choose to side with the writer of Hebrews over your opinion on the matter."

I agree with him too! I just happen to understand that law and grace overlapped. One was fading away, the other was gaining. We had people saved under 2 different dispensations at one time on the earth.

His.......Joj

"Joj, the people who today reside in the patch of land we call "Israel" have a much right to the name "Israel" as I have the right to claim I am Jesus Christ in the flesh. "

Joj.......I disagree. Israel comes ONLY from those of Abrahams seed. The same guys God went into covenant relationship with. Remember, God said "ALL OTHERS ARE CUT OFF" from that covenant.

"Jesus and His JEWISH followers were TRUE Israel, and the rest were cut off in the 1st century, as fortold by Moses."

Jesus and His jewish followers, were just that, followers of Jesus. They believed He was their messiah as the scriptures foretold. I would like to see where Moses fortold about those who were to be cut off so that I may examine the context of the passage though.

"Jesus and His JEWISH followers, with gentiles grafted in, were / are the "Israel of God"."

HHmmmmmmm. Where do you get that everyone who follows Jesus today is now "Israel of God"? Scripture please.

"Any other who claims to be "Israel" is an imposter. "

I wont claim that either. I am a member of the Body of Christ, Jew and gentile without distinction saved through faith in the death burial and resurection of Jesus Christ.

How are/were you saved parousia?

"Again, scripture teaches that "Not all who are OF Israel ARE Israel. Abrahams seed are by faith, not DNA. Todays "Jews" are imposters with no verifiable claim to the name "Israel". There is no "Israel" apart from faith in Christ. "

The bible says that Gods covenant was made with Israels seed, NOT of Abrahams faith, you are at odds with scripture on that point. Those of Israel who are not of Israel would simply be those out of covenant with God.


"The Church, made up of Jesus and His JEWISH followers, with gentiles grafted in, is the "Israel of God". "

I see, you are spiritualizing Israel. I can't see it myself. Gods plan for Israel the nation is far to well spelled out in scripture for me to believe He wont keep His promises to them. And so many of His promises to them are yet to be fulfilled, that your theology has to stretch the truth so that it appears they have been.

Are you gonna adress my other points and questions from a few posts back and tell me who all those metaphors represent?

His......Joj

Originally posted by Joj
"Joj,
You claim the old covenant was "nailed to the cross", but the writer of Hebrews , in the 60's AD, infallibly claims it had not yet vanished as of that time:"

Paul tells us that the law was nailed to the cross with Christ, it isnt just me who claims it. Its a fact. It was after the cross some time that that fact was revealed, as Paul wasn't saved for some time after the cross and had this revealed to him. The reason the writer of Hebrews is speaking as such is because those Israelites he is adressing were saved under the old economy. They had believed Jesus was their promised and prophesied messiah, and were still to follow His commandments just as Jesus told His followers to do before He ascended. They had to endure till the end.

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By this Logic, any "Jew" today who believes Christ is messiah, must obey the Law, correct?

If so, How does a "Messianic Jew" today obey the Law?

I agree, the reason it was growing old and about to vanish away was because all those saved under the old program, (believing Jesus was the Messiah) were dying off, and all would eventualy all be dead.

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Please elaborate.

How is believing Jesus was the mesiah the "old program"?

At what point were Law abiding Jews who believed in Christ absolved of the requirements of obeying the Law?

You see, there was more than one good news/ gospel. Gospel of the kingdom. Gospel of Gods grace. The confusion comes from trying to mix the two. They dont mix, they just confuse.

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So I'm not confused, wich Gospel is this:

"Then I saw another Angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth" (Revelation 14:6)

I agree with him too! I just happen to understand that law and grace overlapped. One was fading away, the other was gaining. We had people saved under 2 different dispensations at one time on the earth.

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Boy are you close!

The 2 covenants overlapped, New and Old, for 40 years (a biblical generation) Cross to parousia. One was fading away, the other was gaining. Contrary to your assertion, no one was saved under the old "ministration of death", but the "ministration of rightesousness" saves.

Peace,

p70

Originally posted by Joj
"
Joj.......I disagree. Israel comes ONLY from those of Abrahams seed. The same guys God went into covenant relationship with. Remember, God said "ALL OTHERS ARE CUT OFF" from that covenant.

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Joj, the problem with your "Backwards redemption" theology,(well, not THE problem, but a significant one of many) is that there is no Jewish race today.

Unless you can show me even one human being alive today who can verify Abrahamic descent, your theology falls flat.

peace anyway,

p70

BTW, I simply agree with armothe, the Child/snake/lion/lamb metaphores describe the Christian peace in the new covenant, ie: how Christianity absolves all lines of demarkation between those "in Christ".

You claim Christians are not in focus here, but in your theology, Christ believers(Christians) are the only ones around in the New Heavens and earth. How is the "Child playing on the snake pit" NOT a Christian????
peace,
p70

Originally posted by Joj
I disagree, it is clear the new covenant was what He said it was, He would write His law on their (Israels) inward parts etc. etc. Just like it says. The shed blood was more like the down payment for it. He did say, "this is the New Covenant in My blood". He didn't say My blood IS THE NEW COVENANT did He? I ask, what did those scriptures say was the new covenant? You stopped short of posting what they did actually say. Why?

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You seem content believing that Hebrews 8 speaks of a new covenant solely with Israel - and that chapter 9 has nothing to do with chapter 8 and the new covenant.

You are missing the entire point of Hebrews 7,8 & 9: Out with the old and in with the new. Read these passages again and examine the contrasts with the old covenant to the new covenant.

Hebrews 9:11 - He entered once for all into the Holy Place, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:25 - Nor was it to offer himself again and again, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year after year with blood that is not his own.
Old Covenant: sanctified by the recurring shedding of blood from animal sacrifices.
New Covenant: sanctified by the ONE time shedding of blood of Christ.

Hebrews 9:24 - For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made by human hands, a mere copy of the true one, but he entered into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
Old Covenant: Temple/Tabernacle.
New Covenant: Presence of God.

Hebrews 8:10 - I will put my laws in their minds, and write them on their hearts.
Old Covenant: Laws written on tablets of stone.
New Covenant: Laws written in our hearts.

Hebrews 9:6 - Such preparations having been made, the priests go continually into the first tent to carry out their ritual duties; but only the high priest goes into the second, and he but once a year, and not without taking the blood that he offers for himself and for the sins committed unintentionally by the people.
Hebrews 9:11 - But when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and perfect tent.
Old Covenant: Mediators of the covenant on behalf of the people were human priests from the tribe of Levi.
New Covenant: Christ is the high priest.

I believe the passages in chapter 7 explain quite well that the new covenant consists of Christ's sacrifice.

Hebrews 7:11 - Now if perfection had been attainable through the levitical priesthood—for the people received the law under this priesthood—what further need would there have been to speak of another priest arising according to the order of Melchizedek, rather than one according to the order of Aaron? For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
Hebrews 7:22 - accordingly Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant.
Hebrews 7:27 - Unlike the other high priests, he has no need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for those of the people; this He did once for all when he offered himself.

Hebrews 7,8 & 9 go hand in hand. The chapters explain that the old covenant was not perfect, and that a new one had to be made. The old covenant God had with Israel was merely a shadow of the greater covenant God would have with *all* peoples.

I hope you will be able to accept this after further meditation.

-A

VERRY GOOD, Armothe! If I may compliment your post a little bit:

"And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His Spirit. AND BEHOLD the veil of the temple was torn in two, from the TOP TO THE BOTTOM (GOD toward MAN), and the earth shook..."

"This hope we have as an anchor of our soul, a hope both sure and steadfast which enters within the veil, where JESUS has entered FOR US, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Milchizedek."

"there is ...one mediator between God and men, Jesus Christ."

Matt27:50-51
Heb6:19
1Tim2:5

"Covenant Theology" (as opposed to "Dispensationism"), Jesus is the NEW COVENANT. Not to ABOLISH the Law, but to FULFILL it... Matt5:17

"You seem content believing that Hebrews 8 speaks of a new covenant solely with Israel"

Why shouldn't I be? Thats who God said He would make it with.

Until you can give me a satisfactory explanation how God could have made a new covenant with people (gentiles) whom He hadn't given an old covenant with I wont even begin to budge.

While I believe we are partakers of the new covenant for salvation, I still see that parts of it are strictly for Israel as Gods word says. He didn't say He would write the law on everyones hearts, just Israels.

"How is the "Child playing on the snake pit" NOT a Christian????"

How is it now that they are not metaphors? Your theology is not very consistant here and neither are you?


His.......Joj

Joj,

You say this:

Originally posted by Joj
Until you can give me a satisfactory explanation how God could have made a new covenant with people (gentiles) whom He hadn't given an old covenant with I wont even begin to budge.

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But yet you say this:

Originally posted by Joj
While I believe we are partakers of the new covenant for salvation.

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You just got done saying that gentiles aren't entitled to a new covenant, yet your turn right around and say that they are partakers of a new covenant. Which is it?

As you already know the passage you are relying on, Jer 31:33 is specifically quoted in Hebrews 8:16. Why? because it's a fulfillment of scripture. The New covenant with Israel was to be fulfilled in Christ.
Two verses prior (14) it says: For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

This New Covenant which revolves around Christ is indeed a replacement covenant for Israel, however; this doesn't mean only Israel can partake of it.

It looks like you are seperating the New Covenant (as mentioned in Hebrews) into two parts: One being a gentile application which was already accomplished through Christ (praise Him!), and an Israelic application that has yet to happen.

According to you, the Israelic application will be fulfilled when:
1) God writes His laws on Israel's hearts & mind.
2) God will be Israel's God.
3) All of Israel will know God.
4) God will remember Israel's sins no more.
  
Well, guess what:
1) God's laws have become inner principles, not works, that enable His people (Christians) to delight in doing his will.
2) God and His people (Christians) currently have intimate fellowship (through prayer & His word),
3) Sinful ignorance of God has been removed forever.
4) Forgiveness of sins is an everlasting reality thanks to Christ's work on the cross.

Some verses you may find helpful regarding Jews vs. Gentiles

Romans 3:29 - Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also.
Romans 9:24 - even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Ephesians 3:5 - In former generations this mystery was not made known to humankind, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit: that is, the Gentiles have become fellow heirs, members of the same body, and sharers in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Romans 15:4 - For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the circumcised on behalf of the truth of God in order that he might confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written,
“Therefore I will confess you among the Gentiles,
and sing praises to your name”;
and again he says, “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people”;
and again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles,
and let all the peoples praise Him”;
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel: it is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek (gentiles).
Romans 10:12 - For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. 

Fact is, there is no longer any discernement between Israel & Gentiles made by God. The new covenant -made possible through Christ's sacrifice- is for everyone. Even you won't deny that.

Why you are expecting God to seperate Israel from the rest of the world again is beyond me.

-A

Originally posted by Joj


"How is the "Child playing on the snake pit" NOT a Christian????"

How is it now that they are not metaphors? Your theology is not very consistant here and neither are you?


His.......Joj

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Actually, it is you  who claims it is not a metaphore, not me.

I was merely pointing out your inconsistancy in claiming the Child was not a Christian in your "literal" rendering.

Like I said before, Your "seperation theology" amounts to nothing more than Backwards redemption.

Your theology insists that Jews have extra requirements above and beyond faith in Christ for them to achieve salvation.

I simply reject that notion outright.

Peace to you regardless,

p70

"You just got done saying that gentiles aren't entitled to a new covenant, yet your turn right around and say that they are partakers of a new covenant. Which is it?"

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear. We are in the sense that we (gentiles) who are Christs are Abrahams seed according to the promise of God Gal. 3:29. This promise is NOT the covenant. God promised Abraham before he was circumcised and became the father of Israel that through Abraham he would bless ALL the families of the earth. Our blessings come from Abraham aalright, but not according to the covenant. My mistake.

"According to you, the Israelic application will be fulfilled when:
1) God writes His laws on Israel's hearts & mind.
2) God will be Israel's God.
3) All of Israel will know God.
4) God will remember Israel's sins no more. "

NO, thats not according to me, that is what the scriptures say. You are inserting "Christians today" in place of Israel.

"Well, guess what:
1) God's laws have become inner principles, not works, that enable His people (Christians) to delight in doing his will."

His word says ALL will know the Lord. He meant that in an intimate sence. It appears you are trying to generalize it. It also says there will be no need for one to teach another does it not? Why are we even here if that has been fulfilled?

"2) God and His people (Christians) currently have intimate fellowship (through prayer & His word),"

Not ALL of us like the word says. Why not? Did God lie?


"3) Sinful ignorance of God has been removed forever. "

Spare me. I can't believe YOU believe that one.

"4) Forgiveness of sins is an everlasting reality thanks to Christ's work on the cross."

Only for those who have put their faith in what was done for us at the cross.

"Fact is, there is no longer any discernement between Israel & Gentiles made by God. The new covenant -made possible through Christ's sacrifice- is for everyone. Even you won't deny that."

I agree. Fact also is, that that bit of info wasn't available before the risen Lord revealed it to the apostle to the gentiles, Paul. Before then God was ONLY dealing with His chosen people Israel except for a few gentiles who proseltyzed and became Jews.

"Why you are expecting God to seperate Israel from the rest of the world again is beyond me."

In the beginning men were just called the race. They were wicked, so God just about killed them all off. We all know the story of that. We learn later that men were going against God, so He seperated them at the tower of babel and later called out a nation to Himself, they were the 12 tribes of Judah, Abrahams seed. They were in a conditional covenant relationship with God. Do Gods will and be blessed, don't do it and be cursed. We all know about those episodes.

Later, we find God set Israel aside in unbelief so that He could have mercy on all men through the cross. This is "the one New Man" that makes up the body of Christ.

God prior to this and recorded all through scripture made some very specific promises to Israel. He will keep them, or He lied. He promised them a King who would rule over them from the throne of David ON THE EARTH, this has not happened. He promised them the land forever, Israel does not posess the land given them by God. God promised them a kingdom out of heaven where christ would rule from with the aid of the 12 apostles, this has not happened.

The body of Christ Jew and Gentile are given a heavenly position, seated in the heavenlies. All the bodies promises are heavenly. Israel inherits the earth, and all her promises were earth centered.

You are taking doctrine and truths for Gods chosen nation Israel under the law, and trying to mix them into doctrine for the Body of Christ Jew and gentile apart from the law. ......You are trying to take the "one new man" and fit him into Israels promises. It wont work.

His......Joj

"Actually, it is you who claims it is not a metaphore, not me."

WHAT??? Earlier you said those passages were speaking metaphoricly. Then you go on to ask......"How is the "Child playing on the snake pit" NOT a Christian????"

It appears from your earlier posts that you believe all the critters in the passages from Isaiah were metaphores. But this last queston to me makes it appear you think the snakepit and child are not metaphors.

"Your theology insists that Jews have extra requirements above and beyond faith in Christ for them to achieve salvation."

They don't have seperate requirments today. ALL men, Jew and Gentile are saved through faith in what Christ did for us without any works.

Before salvation went to the gentiles, Israel most definatley had additional requirements. You are trying to lump Israel with the law and The Body of Christ Jew and Gentile (the ONE NEW MAN) apart from the law into one big happy family TODAY. It wont work....Peace to you too.

His......Joj

I simply reject that notion outright.

Originally posted by Joj

According to you, the Israelic application will be fulfilled when:
1) God writes His laws on Israel's hearts & mind.
2) God will be Israel's God.
3) All of Israel will know God.
4) God will remember Israel's sins no more.

NO, thats not according to me, that is what the scriptures say. You are inserting "Christians today" in place of Israel.

His......Joj

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Okay, how do you see the above 4 events taking place. How will you (personally) know when they have been fulfilled (if they are fulfilled in your lifetime)?

-A

Those applications will transpire after Jesus Christ comes back to earth and puts His enemies under foot and brings His Glorious kingdom to the earth.

The animal kingdom will be tamed at this time also. What a Kingdom it will be.....Nothing like this wretched planet now.

I dont expect to be around when this transpires. I will be seated in heavenly places In Christ.

Do you really think that what we are living in today is Gods Kingdom here on this earth?

His...........Joj

Originally posted by Joj

Do you really think that what we are living in today is Gods Kingdom here on this earth?

His...........Joj

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Yes.  Preterists have to believe this.  As if Jesus would have the nazis murder so many innocent Jews in His Kingdom.  BAH!

Originally posted by Joj
Those applications will transpire after Jesus Christ comes back to earth and puts His enemies under foot and brings His Glorious kingdom to the earth.
The animal kingdom will be tamed at this time also. What a Kingdom it will be.....Nothing like this wretched planet now.
I dont expect to be around when this transpires. I will be seated in heavenly places In Christ.
Do you really think that what we are living in today is Gods Kingdom here on this earth?
His...........Joj

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Okay, so let me get this straight.

1) Christ comes back - but you won't be here when he does.
2) Christ does away with all sin,evil, and death on earth - but does not destroy the old earth.
3) Christ then changes the nature of the animal kingdom (and plant kingdom?) so they are tame.

- So, what...will the animals and plants live forever, just as humans do?
- What do we eat, what do the animals eat? We can't eat animals, or plants because we'd have to slaughter them.
- Do we even need to eat?
- Why then are animals and plants even around?
- If I step on an ant will it die?

Please, educate me on how this New Kingdom on earth will work. Please be specific.

John 18:33-36 - Then Pilate entered the headquarters again, summoned Jesus, and asked him, “Are you the King of the Jews?”  Jesus answered, “Do you ask this on your own, or did others tell you about me?” Pilate replied, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests have handed you over to me. What have you done?” Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.” 

The Jews expected the Messiah to come and be a physical king who would rule over them on the earth. Obviously they were wrong.

What makes you think Christ will change His mind and come back to earth to be our physical king?

-A