What day is the Sabbath?

Originally posted by geocajun
The reason I keep coming back here, is to make sure that at least someone keeps defending Christianity and our ancienct biblical tradition of Sunday worship. I have noticed that no one is reading this thread except for you guys though, and its clear to me that you folks are happy content with your subjective interpretation of scripture - and thats good enough for some folks... but that type of paper thin sola scriptura theology is why I was a skeptic before becoming Catholic...

anyway, this is my last post on this thread.
(I did pray a rosary for you both last night)

Click to expand...

Hi Geocajun,

If you choose to follow the words of man versus the words of Jesus, that is your choice.

Over and over again, we have pointed out to you that God cannot contradict Himself.

Numbers 23:19 _God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus Christ cannot lie. His word is true. The Pope can though.

Hebrews 13:8 _Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Psalms 89:34 _My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.


We can probably start a new thread on this but here are just a few contradictions.

1) Jesus says: keep the Sabbath (Saturday)
Catholic church says: keep Sunday

2) Jesus says: bow down or serve no idols
Catholic church says: kneel or bow before statues

3) Jesus says: when you pray, pray without vain repititions
Catholic church says: pray the rosary

4) Jesus says: the soul that sins will surely die
Catholic church says: the soul is indestructable (God is powerless over destroying the human soul)

5) Jesus says: you shall have no other Gods
Catholic church: calls the Pope, "Lord Pope." "sweet Christ on earth" and "Lord God the Pope"

6) Jesus says: that He is the only mediator
Catholic church says: pray to Mary or the "saints" (baptized paganism)

7) Jesus says: baptize through immersion
Catholic church says: baptize through sprinkling

8) Jesus says: the Anti-Christ would "think" to change time and laws
Catholic church: has transferred is holy day from Saturday (4th Commandment) to Sunday, has altered the calendar and have removed the 2 Commandment which pertains to idolatry

9) Jesus says: salvation is a gift
Catholic church says: you are saved by works

10) Jesus says: that only He can forgive sins
Catholic church says: She can forgive sins

The list goes on and on.

The traditions of the Catholic Church has completely voided the Bible.

Matthew 15:9 _But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Isaiah 8:20 _To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

What law and what testimony do you speak of Geocajun?

Galatians 1:6-8 _I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The Catholic church preaches many other gospels. It would take volumes and volumes to describe.

Paul also said the following:

Acts 17:22-30 _Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Have you researched the verses, that we have been giving you regarding the Sabbath, in the Douay-Rheims Bible (Catholic)?

It is not to late. Come out of Bablylon my people.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Originally posted by adam332
TS,

here's a cut and paste from a few pages back....

"You must pay attention to the context of Col. 2 to determine what ordinances are being spoken of. One thing I'm sure you must be missing is that it speaks of the ordinances as past tense, when it says they were "nailed" to the cross. But, it speaks of the eat and drink and the Sabbaths and new moons, as being "are a shadow of things to come".

Did you catch that?!! This passage is not speaking of the ceremonial laws that were a shadow of things that had already came, but instead is speaking of a future fulfillment of Sabbaths, new moons etc.... that "are to come".

Sound familiar?

Isa. 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Another hint as to what ordinances are being referred to is, that they are mentioned in relationship to men judging men about their Sabbaths and new moons.

We saw examples of this throughout Christ ministry, didn't we? Wasn't Christ continually being judged guilty of Sabbath breaking by the Pharisees?

Well what ordinances were they judging Him with? The man-made additions they had made to the Sabbath!!!! Not the law of God!

With these things in mind let's look at what the subject matter of Col. 2 is.

4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

The subject matter of that chapter is the false teachings of men and for us to beware of them. He came as a Jew and openly disobeyed there man-made laws, "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly".

So, since Christ has come and openly challenged these items and could not be found guilty of them, no matter how hard they tried to trap Him, therefore don't let any man judge us concerning the man-made laws of the Sabbath, etc...., either.

Here are other verses where Paul is referring to the Jews who were against Christ, or their teachings, as being "contrary" to them.

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

1Thes. 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

Rom. 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Acts 23:3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?

It was the actions and laws of man that Paul was telling us was contrary to us not the ceremonial laws of Moses. These were shadows and were fulfilled, but they were not at all contrary. They are still applicable but not in a physical earthly nature, but instead in the heavenly sanctuary with Christ acting as the spiritual High priest on our behalf.

BTW: The Greek word for "ordinances" no.1 definition in the Lexicon is "doctrines".

Remember, Paul says that when Christ disarmed("spoiled" see Strongs) the principalities and powers when He took away their ordinances that were AGAINST them ......

2Cor. 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Eph. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Also remember Paul was once a high power and a Pharisee who also spoke and falsely accused the brethren based on man's laws and not God's.....

Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them."

Click to expand...

Hi Adam332,

First of all, I'd like to apologize for having you do the cut and pasting. As you know, this thread has moved quickly.

Are you suggesting that we should continue to keep the holydays (yearly sabbaths), ceremonies of the offerings of grain and drink and the new moons?

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Originally posted by adam332
The theme of this chapter is that we not be beguiled by mens doctrines, nor their additions to Gods.

So....I am inclined to believe that this warning for men not to be over judgemental, in regard meat and drink and holydays is referring to a problem that not only occurred here but also probably in Laodaceia as well as the church in Rome. And I believe these two are the same issues which Paul is addressing, (Rom. 14:5, 6). Not that it matters, but Thomas Nelson has noted the same conclusion. And remember, that he was addressing in His book to the Romans the fact that in God's eyes these things didn't matter but only in the eyes of others were their differences significant. God never instructed us not to fast, or to eat meat offered to idols, simply let no man judge you in their personal ideas concerning them.

This only leaves the relevance to us not letting man men judge us by their standards of the next two items, the Sabbath and new moons. As as noted in Isa. 66:23 they have future significance. Things that are yet to come....

So that leaves us three questions.....
1. What examples are there of men judging others by their standards and not God's concerning new moons and the Sabbath?

2. What future significance of things yet do come do they have?

3. What examples to men judging others on drink by their own standards, and not God's?

Off the top of my head I cannot recollect such an example regarding men judging others by their own standards of the new moon(feast of trumpets). (My study on Col. 2 isn't complete yet, when I have it finished I will be sure to post it here). But, as for the Sabbath, with consideration to the context of the preceding verse 15, we have many such clear examples of men judging Christ and the disciples about the Sabbath, according to their sacred traditions found in the Mishnah.

And as far as future shadowy fulfillment of these, I would actually be interested to see what you think. I don't think we can Biblically pinpoint what they will shadow anymore then those of Christ's time were able to pinpoint all the shadows that were fulfilled then. I am sure it is very similar to baptism being symbolic of the future ressurrection of the righteous. But scripturally, I think one could logically speculate some fairly sound theories. And if you do a little searching you will see that there are many interesting theories on the future fulfillment of them. Anyway, see ya'.....

Click to expand...

Hi Adam332,

Yes, it is true that the theme of Colossians 2 is about not being judgemental and that the Jews of Paul's time added their man-made traditions to the Law. However, Paul is saying "Why would you follow the man-made traditions that has been added to Moses' law when the very Law of Moses is no longer binding. Don't let any one condemn you for not observing the Law of Moses. It's no longer binding."

There is a sharp distinction between the Law of God (10 Commandments) and the Law of Moses (ordinances--civil laws "statutes and judgments" and ceremonial laws). The Law of God is eternal and the Law of Moses was made void at the cross.

Jesus said the following to Israel:

2 Kings 21:8 Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

Moses said the following:

Deuteronomy 4:13, 14 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

The Law of God (10 Commandment) and the Law of Moses (civil and ceremonial laws) were never equal.

As you know, Jesus wrote the 10 Commandments.

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

As you know, Moses wrote "the Law of Moses."

Deuteronomy 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Moses put the 10 Commandments into the ark of the testimony but put his book of laws beside the ark of the testimony.

Exodus 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Notice how the Law of Moses is said to be "against" (contrary-Colossians 2:14) the people in Deuteronomy. Why? Because it was understood that the people of Israel had not obeyed and would not obey and therefore face the judgements or curses that were written in the Book of Moses (Law of Moses).

Ezekiel 20:24, 25 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols. Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

The Law of Moses are called "carnal commandments." This means that they are not eternal. They were short-lived.

Hebrews 7:12-16 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

This is why Paul said that Jesus abolished the "commandments contained in the ordinances."

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Remember, all ceremonial laws pointed to the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ (the Lamb). They were to be abolished by the death of Jesus.

Hebrews 9:9, 10 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; _Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Daniel 9:24-27 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In Bible prophecy, one prophetic day is equal to one year (Numbers 14:23; Eziekel 4:6).

According to Daniel 9:24-27, ancient Israel had 490 years (70 weeks) to get it "right" with the Lord "make an end of sin" or repent.

The "commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem" was proclaimed in 457 B.C. (Ezra 7:1-27) by Artaxerxes.

Jesus started His mission 483 years (69 weeks) after the command to rebuild Jerusalem, at His baptism.

He confirmed the covenant for 1 week (7 years) and caused the "sacrifice and oblation to cease" in the middle of the week (3 1/2 years--the duration of Jesus' ministry before He was crucified). God gave ancient Israel 3 1/2 years after His death to repent--to get it right. However, this grace ended after Steven was stoned 3 1/2 years later and the gospel went to the Gentiles.

The death of Jesus brought an end to meat offerings, sacrifices etc... They all had a part in the yearly sabbaths, feasts. Jesus caused the "sacrifice and oblation" to cease.

This was confirmed by the ripping of the veil in the temple.

Mark 15:37, 37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Colossians 2 is referring to yearly sabbaths being nailed to the cross not the weekly Sabbath day. Leviticus 23 names 7 yearly sabbaths.

Leviticus says that the yearly sabbaths were to be kept along wth the "Sabbaths of the Lord" (weekly Sabbath--Saturday).

Leviticus 23:37-38 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Concerning the shadows, the Ultimate Sacrifice (the center of each type) was given for each one. This means that they are no longer binding. However, they are still being fulfilled. That is another topic all together. Do you think we should start a new thread for that?

These shadows were given because of sin. However, the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) existed before there was any sin. Therefore, it is not classified as a "carnal commandment or ordinance."

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
Good post.
Now, what do we do with Matt. 25? And Eccl. 1:9-10 & chapter 3:15? If we are any differant than non/believers that is?---P/N/B/

PS: Surely Rev. 3:9 must have blind Virgin ex/believers who were seen in 1 Peter 4:17's FIRST JUDGEMENT

Click to expand...

Hi Pastor N.B.,

What topic(s) are you describing? Are they related to the Sabbath? If not please create a new thread and I will join you there.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
*****
Hi,
Bottom line is that the Word of God is [ALL] NEEDED, is it not? (Matt. 4:4) Or do we want a thread full of PROMISES with ALL of the Everlasting Covenant CONDITIONS on another 'thread'?? Sounds 'j'esuite to me? (see 2 Tim. 3:16, your quote I believe?)

Matt. 25 are ALL SABBATH KEEPERS! The testing for these was & is NOT the Sabbath. (might this deceive the very elect?)

In 70AD, these ones were ALL Sabbath KEEPERS (believers) also. The TESTING here, was not the Sabbath day commandment. The 'target' for the question that I asked here was that ALL of these ones were judged FIRST, before the Gentils came on the scene, and WERE ALL OF SABBATH PROFESSION. (1 Peter 4:17) This is not to be comfused with 666, but understood with ".. except there come a falling away first" (by the way, who left whom in Christ's day? who fell away? Both were Sabbath keepers)

They had THEIR 'Midnight cry' & 70AD was their 'Loud cry'. One 'cry' brought a 'c'hristless denomination, the other cry brought an end in slaughter. Is the SUBJECT out of place, off thread?? Perhaps to some. But the REAL QUESTION about the SABBATH, is the REASON IT IS KEPT! "IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" the Master asks? And the Bible teaches that before we enter 'OUR LAND OF CANNAN' the [world] professed ones will be tested as in history of old, to see 'if' they REALLY do LOVE THE MASTER!

(the testing is different for the ones giving this message, ok? see Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15)

In other words, it seems to me that we need to keep our EYES on Christ & NEVER Sabbath/tise without EVERLASTING GOSPILIZING CHRIST FIRST. (see Rev. 14:6) ALL of these SABBATH KEEPING ones who stayed put in Christ's day made a wrong DECISION. It is scene in Isa. 5:3. "And NOW, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Juda, JUDGE , I PRAY YOU, [BETWIXT] ME AND MY VINEYARD." (sounds like some chose denomination & Sabbath keeping OVER the MASTER of the Sabbath Keeping denomination! see Matt. 23:3)

So a Sabbath keeping denomination that IS 'c'hristless is also WORTHLESS!
This is my thinking that I was trying to get across. The thread just seems to be somewhat vain perhaps, (see Titus 3:9-11) or maybe a better word might be that of sounding of LEGALISM? If it is not balanced & Christ centered. ---P/N/B/

Click to expand...

Hi Pastor N.B.,

Sometimes it is hard for me to understand what you are really saying or what you mean to convey.

What sounds Jesuit? Who said or implied that we should not make Christ the center? Why do you think spreading the truth about the Sabbath to be vain?

Please be as descriptive as you can when you reply.

Thanks for the reply.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
***********

The 'thread' is about the SABBATH, is it not? It sounds like some here are setting me up? You ask me questions for a different thread, and then say that my remarks are off thread! Or, so say some.

Now: The Sabbath is [one] Commandment of the ten, written by the Son of God in tables of stone, & recreated 'in' the fleshy tables of the heart, of the BORN AGAIN believers. (see 2 Cor. 3:3) This EPISTLE (LETTER) of Christ
IS SEEN IN ACTIVE LIVING WORKING FAITH. OK so far? It IS HIS CHARACTER LETTER!

Now, about this THREAD?
God has no objection to anyone calling SIN by the proper name. I have said what I have about anyone putting 'any mans' words above the Word of God. Yet, to be Christlike as I see it, [YOUR] MOTIVES CANNOT EVER be read by me.
And still yet, the thread subject is the SABBATH, that IS PART OF THE LAW OF GOD is it not? And it is 'HAMMERED' back & forth on this thread in the NAME OF one BELIEVING GOD?? Wow!

I might add, that not hardly ever is the ONE WHO WROTE the law talked about! This 'to me' is LEGALISM or worse, if that is possible?

And the Word of VAIN is called into account as I had used it from the Word of God? And, yes, I do understand that there are seen some in Heb. 5 that are on the pacifier. (milk) Yet, it supprises me that they cannot understand Heb. 6, while being believed by themselves that they are the Master's spoksmen of THE ROYAL LAW OF THE UNIVERSE?? Surely EVEN one must know that the Sabbath is one of the ten, and James states that if 'one' is broken, the person or persons are GUILTY of breaking them ALL?

Back & forth one goes! Is it VAIN or not? Can you or I change our minds against our VAIN stubborn will? Will we? Or are we settled into our VAIN FAITH? (regardless of it being me, or you?)

So, this brings me to the SABBATH QUESTION, (the LAW OF THE UNIVERSE! Heb. 13:20) In Titus 3:8-10 we see the TRUTH stated 'very plainly' for one that is not the condemned of the verse! (me or others)
The Holy Spirit inspired these Word's:
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, [AND CONTENTIONS ABOUT THE LAW; for they ARE UNPROFITABLE AND VAIN]. ..."

Before we finish the verse, the 'simple' question is asked, what has this thread been doing? Has it not been trying to make 'ones MOTIVES' seem FOOLISH? EVEN the poster's name being used? Is this is Christlike?? And if one questions this remark? Go back and see what has been said, not about ERROR OF DOCTRINE, but to the person?

Now for the rest of the verse, how many times does INSPIRATION state that one is to 'teach' (hammer) before they are VAIN??
"A man that IS A HERETICK AFTER THE FIRST AND SECOND ADMONITION REJECT; Knowing that he that IS SUCH is subverted, and sinneth, BEING CONDEMED OF HIMSELF."

It might be said that this would apply to Paul himself.----P/N/B/

Click to expand...

Hi Pastor N.B.,

No one has set you up, Pastor N.B. As a man of the cloth (pastor), you should know that your words should be chosen carefully, as to prevent others from stumbling because they may carry a lot of weight. You are the only pastor here.

However, I think that I understand what you are saying, now. You are saying that once we give the truth out once or twice, we have done our jobs and that if we proclaim the truth more than 2 times then we are discussing in vain, right?

I don't agree with this insight, because, as you may know, hundreds of people visit this site everyday. In fact, someone might have learned the truth about the Sabbath for the first time in his or her life, today. If someone new wants me to start from the beginning, I will. If someone continues to ask questions upon questions on this thread regarding the Sabbath, for their edification, I will answer them. We cannot be "respecters of person" or pick and choose. As for those who have already witnessed the truth about the Sabbath, they are in the hands of the Holy Spirit.

This discussion has, very well, been centered on Jesus. At least, that it what I have been trying to convey. Please see the link below for example (the 5th post).

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/23454-20.html

Yes, the Sabbath will be a testing point in these last days that we are living in. Do you remember the link below (the first post).

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/23454-11.html

Regarding legalism, are you legalist for not killing, committing adultry, worshipping idols. No. At least I don't think so. I cannot read your heart. I see people protesting abortion and inappropriate contentography, and the likes, all the time. Does that make them legalists? Usually, the word "legalist" is used by those who want an excuse to live in iniquity (lawlessness). Of course, the motive of any Christian for keeping the 10 Commandments of Jesus should be love. Jesus would have it no other way.

Jesus said:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.

Click to expand...

Hi Pastor N.B.,

I still don't understand what you are trying to explain.

As for contention regarding the Law, please show me where this exists on this thread. What I see is that we have all tried to describe the importance of keeping the 10 Commandments through the Holy Spirit for the motive of love. We cannot force people to see things our way, Pastor N.B. That is the job of the Holy Spirit after we have presented our understanding of the truth.

I suggest that we return to the original purpose of this thread--to proclaim the truth about the Sabbath (Saturday). Let's not take away from the primary purpose of this thread. I'm sure that would make Satan very happy. Let's exalt the word of Jesus and not self. Let's not get in the way of the truth.

The interesting thing about the spirit of contention is that the disciples of Christ had this spirit before the day of pentacost. However, when everyone died to self, and the number of the disciples was complete, the Holy Spirit descended on the brethren and worked marvelously through them. I believe that this example was given for our edification.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.

Click to expand...

Hi Pastor N.B.,

Not only is Geocajun my brother in Christ, but you and everyone in this world is. This is why my signature always contains that phrase "Your brother in Christ." Remember, God is a God of love, truth and mercy. It is important to call sin or apostacy by its right name. However, the person is your brother. If I see that my brother is living in sin (purposely or through ignorance) I will point it out because I love my brother. I will try hard to gain his attention and unravel the falsehood that he is tied up in.

The Bible says the following:

1 John 4:21 _And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

The Christian walk is a progressive walk. I am a sinner like anyone else, however, I am being perfected daily. Like Paul I have not yet apprehended but I am "pressing to the mark" daily.

Philippians 3:13-15 _Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

My job is first, to be a living sacrifice for Jesus. To allow the Holy Spirit to remove the "beams" from my eyes so that I can see clearly enough to help another. I must first, and foremost, "die to self" daily.

Paul said:

1 Corinthians 9:27 _But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

The knowledge of the word, Pastor N.B., is not what saves. It is what we allow the Holy Spirit to do in us with the word that we have that saves. If we are faithful stewards He will give us more and do more in us.

Remember Jesus loves the sinner but absolutely hates the sin. I feel the same way. I understand that it is not just our responsibility to spread the gospel around the world but it is also our responsibility to call sin by its right name wether or not it is popular or "politically correct."

Please read what the Lord said to Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 3:18 _When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. _Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

Here is a Bible text that I have used concerning idolatry.

Acts 17:22-30 _Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

What do you think our main focus on this text should be? I see "the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent" This, again, shows that the Lord is a God of mercy.

Read the following:

2 Peter 3:9 _The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Jesus has not returned, yet, because He is a God of mercy. He wants all to repent. My goal is to be like Jesus.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
I read NOTHING about the 'thread' of Sabbath keeping in this missive of yours?? But be that as it may, the Adventist denomination is a DONE DEAL! They have gone the way of Israel of old! Check Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 forum. They also are going ALL over the world as Israel of old did in the Master's Word of Matt. 23:15.
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, (SABBATH CONVERT) and when he is made, YE MAKE HIM TWOFOLD MORE THE CHILD OF HELL THAN YOURSELVES." It seems that they were Christless! Read Matt. 23:38 with Rev. 3:9!

By the way, this is the Word Himself speaking! Now notice the professed last day Virgin SABBATH DAY professor..
The Adventist Review -November 21, 2002 Pg. 18 & 19 (in part) under Statistical Report
"Haloviak also pointed out that the church's apostasy rate has increased significantly. In the past TWO YEARS the number of people leaving the church jumped from 23 to 39 for every [100 that join]." O well, these are maturing brethern, huh? (come on, WAKE UP!)

And what do you say?? Note this Annual Council of 2002 message from the Adventist General Conference President himself on pg. 18 of the November 14, 2002 Review (Their official denomination paper forum)
"Paulson pointed to two personal concerns, (and you say they are 'beams in ones eye?) "Adventist mutations" and preoccupation with NUMBERS---measuring growth only IN NUMBERICAL terms. "When I hear that 80,000 megacampaigns with an imported team, they don't even bother to WRITE DOWN THE NAMES of those who are BAPTISED---(NOTICE THE MENTALITY TO FOLLOW) 'we'll do it after THEY HAVE BEEN BAPTISED FOR THE THIRD TIME'---something is wrong." (he stared??)

And what does the Master say in Joshua?? ".. NEITHER WILL I BE WITH YOU ANYMORE, *EXCEPT YOU DESTROY THE ACCURSED THING FROM AMOUNG YOU." And were not ALL OF THESE 'PROFESSED' Sabbath keepers?

Read Eze. 9 for their ending!

But, I understand that some just cannot understand OPEN SINNERS yoked in membership 'together' & this message of Rev. 18:4, huh? Again, I understand your message of 'deafness' loud & clear. See 1 John 4:6.

Pastor N.B.
*****

Click to expand...

Hi Pastor N.B.,

May God bless you.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker