Lost - Episode 6:15 (5/11/10) - Across the Sea

Oddness...

I can't believe it's almost over :

To be honest I am not yet ready for another episode. I am still trying to recover from last weeks.

All I can say is.... WOW

Agreed...Wow.

That certainly explained a lot and didn't have the exposition feel that some previous episodes have.

Ok...

1) What is it about this island and crazy killer women?

2) Did the Crazy Killer Woman have the 'gate-keeper' ability like Jacob? (Did she control just who came to the island?)

3) From the looks of things, the Crazy Killer Woman was a first class sorceress: *she* was the one who set up the rule confining the (unnamed) man in black to the island and forbidding Jacob and MIB from directly killing each other. Jacob came pretty close to breaking that rule when he sent MIB into the 'heart of the island'.

4) Just how did Crazy Killer Woman massacre the entire settlement? One woman verses something like a hundred plus people, many of them armed warriors. Errr...

5) We know that MIB and the 'village people' came up with the 'wheel' idea for directing/controling the island energy, but it looks like that particular settlement got wiped out before it could be installed. MIB tried the same thing with a later group, maybe?

6) For the most part, Jacob comes across as...subservient...here, though he is already a distant figure even at this time period.

7) Speaking of which...just how far back is this? Might be as recently as a thousand years ago...which would make the statue Jacob later took up residence in the creation of an even earlier bunch.

8) Disturbing thought: if this was *way* back - 2000 - 3000 years ago, and the statue, lighthouse, ect were all later constructs by later groups of people (after Jacob became the guardian), then the implication here is that Jacob was directly responsible for wiping out these earlier groups, much as Crazy Killer Woman did with this bunch. Does not really argue for Jacob being 'good'.

9) Despite being guardian of the island, and not really inclined to leave at this point in time, we know that Jacob was able to leave the island, at least for periods of time, later on. The irony here is, that given his stay at home nature, he probably would have prefered to send MIB off on these off island errands, and MIB would have jumped at the chance.

10) Speculation - after the being tossed into the 'Heart of the Island', MIB is probably more closely linked to and dependant on the island for his continued existence than he is willing to admit. I suspect that even if he was able to leave the island, he would end up either dead or crippled in short order as a direct result.

Also sheds light on the black and white stones thing, the 'Adam and Eve' bit (though that would mean that Jacks dating was way off on that), and other little things.

Jack said the clothes look about more than 50 years old, but Adam and Eve were many centuries older than that. What gives?

Lost is Survivor meets the Hatch meets Back to the Future meets Indiana Jones meets Mythology and Super Powers.

It's a big bag of tricks all mixed together. In the few hours left can they explain where Jacob and MIB's powers came from or do we just accept it as it came from "mom" and go no further?

I liked the time travel part but mixing magic with it seems hard to explain?

Where did the mom come from and who left her there to be the protector of the island?
And what is the light/energy? Jacob and MIB don't know about it for much of their human lives and don't seem to know the power or what it's for; although Jacob gets a glimpse of that power when he sends MIB down there. Where does C.W. fit in? Jacob is now looking for someone to follow after him in protecting the island and MIB is seeking to kill all the candidates. If there is no one to protect the island, he can leave? in smokey's form?

mina said:

Where did the mom come from and who left her there to be the protector of the island?
And what is the light/energy? Jacob and MIB don't know about it for much of their human lives and don't seem to know the power or what it's for; although Jacob gets a glimpse of that power when he sends MIB down there. Where does C.W. fit in? Jacob is now looking for someone to follow after him in protecting the island and MIB is seeking to kill all the candidates. If there is no one to protect the island, he can leave? in smokey's form?

Click to expand...

I think my suspicious were right about Jacob/Good MIB/Bad not being so black and white.

"MIB" was abused, and he was right when he said his mother was crazy, as we see the substance of that in this episode. It seems all he ever wanted to do was get off of the ISLAND!!!

Now, Jacob is the "protector," whatever that means, of the "light," which is nothing more than the Exotic Matter spoken of by Mr. Candle of Dharma. It keeps the island stabilized while it moves through a wormhole almost constantly. This is the "bubble" Ben created in which Desmond had to press the button every 108 minutes. It allowed the island to stay in 1996 "forever." (Of course, when Desmond failed to press the button the first time, the "bubble" opened up allowing the plane to crash, the second time the failsafe was pressed and shot them into 2004.)

I have always sympathized with the MIB, but even more so after this episode. He is taken from his mother, finds out his mother who he thought was actually isn't, is rejected by his mother and twin brother, loses the only "family" he knows (the humans,) then gets murdered by his brother only to turn into the smoke monster (doomed to NEVER leave.) I mean, what luck?

Meanwhile, because Jacob never questioned anything he is given everything. I don't think I like Jacob that much anymore. And, I understand why Smokey would want to kill the potential protectors - the process would start all over again!!! He finally has a chance to get off the island and become a real person again.

I think SMOKEY represents the human struggle, unlike Jacob who represents everything we strive to be.

I don't know if anyone watches Dragonball Z, but it reminds me of Goku (Jacob) and Vegeta (MIB/Smokey).

And the kid still doesn't have a name!

Thinker said:

Ok...

1) What is it about this island and crazy killer women?

Click to expand...

That may be a key question to ask. Maybe this was the first step in answering that and why pregnant women were dieing.

Thinker said:

2) Did the Crazy Killer Woman have the 'gate-keeper' ability like Jacob? (Did she control just who came to the island?)

Click to expand...

My guess is yes, though she did appear to age throughout the episode.

Thinker said:

3) From the looks of things, the Crazy Killer Woman was a first class sorceress: *she* was the one who set up the rule confining the (unnamed) man in black to the island and forbidding Jacob and MIB from directly killing each other. Jacob came pretty close to breaking that rule when he sent MIB into the 'heart of the island'.

4) Just how did Crazy Killer Woman massacre the entire settlement? One woman verses something like a hundred plus people, many of them armed warriors. Errr...

Click to expand...

I wonder if she did exactly what she warned the kids that others would do, maybe she sought after the light herself and had the ability to do something similar to the smoke monster.

Thinker said:

5) We know that MIB and the 'village people' came up with the 'wheel' idea for directing/controling the island energy, but it looks like that particular settlement got wiped out before it could be installed. MIB tried the same thing with a later group, maybe?

Click to expand...

Makes sense

Thinker said:

6) For the most part, Jacob comes across as...subservient...here, though he is already a distant figure even at this time period.

Click to expand...

I liked this episode mostly because it explained a lot more about Jacob. He's a simple man who doesn't really want the job, but ended up there anyway. And while he chose a better path than his brother, he's definitely not "good". He makes a lot of mistakes and has his own motives.

Thinker said:

7) Speaking of which...just how far back is this? Might be as recently as a thousand years ago...which would make the statue Jacob later took up residence in the creation of an even earlier bunch.

8) Disturbing thought: if this was *way* back - 2000 - 3000 years ago, and the statue, lighthouse, ect were all later constructs by later groups of people (after Jacob became the guardian), then the implication here is that Jacob was directly responsible for wiping out these earlier groups, much as Crazy Killer Woman did with this bunch. Does not really argue for Jacob being 'good'.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking it would be more that Jacob brought most of those people over the years in hopes of finding a replacement. His brother would have killed them all as was suggested in the Black Rock episode.

Thinker said:

9) Despite being guardian of the island, and not really inclined to leave at this point in time, we know that Jacob was able to leave the island, at least for periods of time, later on. The irony here is, that given his stay at home nature, he probably would have prefered to send MIB off on these off island errands, and MIB would have jumped at the chance.

10) Speculation - after the being tossed into the 'Heart of the Island', MIB is probably more closely linked to and dependant on the island for his continued existence than he is willing to admit. I suspect that even if he was able to leave the island, he would end up either dead or crippled in short order as a direct result.

Also sheds light on the black and white stones thing, the 'Adam and Eve' bit (though that would mean that Jacks dating was way off on that), and other little things.

Click to expand...

Definitely leaves a lot of questions, that's for sure.

The whole light thing... kinda sounds like the tree in the Garden of Eden, no?

This episode made me feel sorry for MIB, I don't blame him for wanting to leave. Here's what I'm not quite understanding... we definately saw that MIB's body died. So when he went to the heart of the island was he changed into smokie and can now only inhabit dead bodies? Or did that just "release" smokie from the heart of the island and MIB is really dead like "mom"?

Very interesting points by you all. So much to still think about. How they will finish it, I have NO idea. Not enough time, imo

~ Very interesting that they are twins. Did everyone notice Jacob was in a light blanket and MIB was in a dark one? Right from birth we had the dark/light thing going on.

~ How did real Mom appear to only MIB...why not Jacob too? It seems to me, except for Hurley seeing dead folks, that Smokey animates dead people. hmmmm

~ Totally agree with the question of how the entire group of people got killed. Could "mom" become smokie too? Reminded me of the dharma mass murder. Oh, and how did the well get filled in? She's quite a woman!

~ Many people dream of visiting or living on such an island paradise, but MIB want off! Why? He's seen what people are really like, he lived with them for 30 years and found them unappealing. And he wants it above all else and no one will stop him. So...while I feel bad that he was an innocent victim at first, he's done a whole lot of murdering in his days. I'm not feeling very bad for him, really. Maybe he didn't kill off everyone to begin with because he needed the man-power for the time. Now most if not all of them seem rather disposable. What is he really after?

I have a thought about why Jacob and MIB were unable to directly kill each other:

'Mom' made them both candidates. One of the rules governing candidates is that they cannot directly kill each other. Even now, in his twisted form, MIB is probably *still* a candidate.

One other observation: MIB is scary, but in stand up fights, Jacob is dang good. He took out Richard without working up a sweat (not too hard, as Richard wasn't a trained fighter and not in that good of shape) and took down MIB *twice*.

I'm thinking it would be more that Jacob brought most of those people over the years in hopes of finding a replacement. His brother would have killed them all as was suggested in the Black Rock episode.

Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you here. Judging from some of the carvings under the temple, MIB was regarded as a literal deity in the past by some of the island occupants (unless, there was another being with similiar abilities *way* back). Plus, at some point he had to convince one of these groups to install his 'wheel' next to the energy source.

The other thing is that Jacob is (or was) first and foremost the guardian of the 'heart of the island'. The chief task of the guardian is to keep *everybody* away from it. So, when some of these past groups started meddling with the 'heart', getting a bit too close to it, Jacob wouldn't have had a choice: his position would have demanded that they be destroyed.

This is probably why the Dharma Initiative was wiped out: between the Swan and Orchid stations, they were getting too close to the 'Heart' for the guardians comfort. I have to wonder if Jacob sent them a 'cease and desist' type warning first before having the Others eradicate the Dharma folks?

Thinker said:

I have a thought about why Jacob and MIB were unable to directly kill each other:

'Mom' made them both candidates. One of the rules governing candidates is that they cannot directly kill each other. Even now, in his twisted form, MIB is probably *still* a candidate.

One other observation: MIB is scary, but in stand up fights, Jacob is dang good. He took out Richard without working up a sweat (not too hard, as Richard wasn't a trained fighter and not in that good of shape) and took down MIB *twice*.



I have to disagree with you here. Judging from some of the carvings under the temple, MIB was regarded as a literal deity in the past by some of the island occupants (unless, there was another being with similiar abilities *way* back). Plus, at some point he had to convince one of these groups to install his 'wheel' next to the energy source.

The other thing is that Jacob is (or was) first and foremost the guardian of the 'heart of the island'. The chief task of the guardian is to keep *everybody* away from it. So, when some of these past groups started meddling with the 'heart', getting a bit too close to it, Jacob wouldn't have had a choice: his position would have demanded that they be destroyed.

This is probably why the Dharma Initiative was wiped out: between the Swan and Orchid stations, they were getting too close to the 'Heart' for the guardians comfort. I have to wonder if Jacob sent them a 'cease and desist' type warning first before having the Others eradicate the Dharma folks?

Click to expand...

All good points. I can't really argue with any of that, lol. It's so hard to speculate at this point because they keep adding in new rules to what each of them can do and what their motives might be (kinda like Smokey's made-up game, huh?).

I'm wondering if the fact that they all had American accents is a major clue and suggests they didn't come to the island so long ago. Perhaps things that happened much earlier were due to time shifts.