Would you willingly be martyred for your beliefs?

b&wpac4 said:

With your logic, nothing should have been done to stop Hitler as he marched across Europe. (not trying to Godwin anything, seriously, it's just the best example I can think of at this moment)

If it isn't, if you think we should have fought Hitler, how are the two situations different?

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I think we (we being Christians) are supposed to love and serve our enemies with the same energy that they attack us, not engage in violent resistance, no matter the evil. How can you claim to love someone and yet fight them? I can find no other teaching in Jesus' words. Flee, if at all possible. If it's not, refuse to submit- treat your captors and aggressors as beloved family. We are all children of God- one's actions do not determine one's worth. You reference the passage in Proverbs in your signature- would that apply any less to Hitler's secret police?

RobertK said:

I think we (we being Christians) are supposed to love and serve our enemies with the same energy that they attack us, not engage in violent resistance, no matter the evil. How can you claim to love someone and yet fight them? I can find no other teaching in Jesus' words. Flee, if at all possible. If it's not, refuse to submit- treat your captors and aggressors as beloved family. We are all children of God- one's actions do not determine one's worth.

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So, were you in charge, you would have just let Hitler roll through, setup his camps, and be allowed to kill as many Jews, homosexuals, and anybody else that didn't make it on his supreme race list? That is unconscionable.

I suppose to you Jesus overwrote "Do not stand idly by while your neighbor's blood is shed".

b&wpac4 said:

I suppose to you Jesus overwrote "Do not stand idly by while your neighbor's blood is shed".

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That's just it, sir. I wouldn't be standing and I wouldn't be idle. There are feet to wash.

If I see anyone being assaulted of course I will attempt to aid the victim and help them escape, but I cannot justify taking a human life.

RobertK said:

That's just it, sir. I wouldn't be standing and I wouldn't be idle. There are feet to wash.

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Good plan, wash their feet until they stop killing millions of people. Brilliant even. Why didn't the Allies think of that?
oh... because it wouldn't have worked. At all. In fact, you would just be feeding their ego.

If I see anyone being assaulted of course I will attempt to aid the victim and help them escape, but I cannot justify taking a human life.

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I hold your position to be unethical. There are times and situations where one person needs to be killed to save the people he is trying to hurt. If there is a hostage situation where the guy has actually begun to kill hostages, and the police has a sniper solution, they need to take that shot. They are doing the correct thing. To not take that action is to allow more people to die which, to me, makes you guilty of standing idly by while they were killed.

So if someone were to mug you or rob your house or in some other way try to hurt or kill you you would just let them do it? Cause that is what it sounds like to me.

There is a difference in taking 'Personal' hurt for Jesus sake and standing by watching others being raped and murdered without helping them.
Robert is correct on the personal hurt front i believe,and i do seek to walk in that.

When the soldiers came to J the B he did not tell them to lay down their arms,but to deal fairly with ppl.

LyraJean said:

So if someone were to mug you or rob your house or in some other way try to hurt or kill you you would just let them do it? Cause that is what it sounds like to me.

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Yes.

Ariellamb said:

There is a difference in taking 'Personal' hurt for Jesus sake and standing by watching others being raped and murdered without helping them.

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Yeah, definitely.. I'm not saying I would stand there and twiddle my thumbs watching someone be attacked like that, but I wouldn't use deadly force.

Wow! That's just wow!

LyraJean said:

Wow! That's just wow!

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Is selflessness now wicked?

Autumnleaf said:

If the government decided to kill people who are in favor of homosexual marriage or who were against abortion or who believed in Jesus Christ or whatever thing you believe with all your heart to be true; would you deny your beliefs to save your life or would you die for what you believe in?

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I would die for God, certainly, as I would for my son and loved ones.

RobertK said:

Is selflessness now wicked?

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I just find it incredible that you would just let someone kill you without defending yourself in anyway is all.

RobertK said:

Is selflessness now wicked?

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I think so, personally.


eudaimonia,

Mark

LyraJean said:

I just find it incredible that you would just let someone kill you without defending yourself in anyway is all.

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You mean, you find Christ's example incredible to believe?

Eudaimonist said:

I think so, personally.

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This doesn't even make any sense. Selflessness is the opposite of wickedness.

thelionsroar1 said:

You mean, you find Christ's example incredible to believe?

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"Therefore, since Christ suffered in His body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude,

"Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is revealed." 1 Peter 4: 1, 12-13

thelionsroar1 said:

This doesn't even make any sense. Selflessness is the opposite of wickedness.

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Jesus is a peaceful King who wants to put an end to retaliation and blood shed. It is hard to follow, but we must follow it.

Zundrah is essentially right, but Christ and His disciples did suffer death for their faith

thelionsroar1 said:

"Therefore, since Christ suffered in His body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude,

"Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is revealed." 1 Peter 4: 1, 12-13

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Amen.

thelionsroar1 said:

This doesn't even make any sense. Selflessness is the opposite of wickedness.

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For me, wickedness is both selflessness and selfishness.

Selfishness is wicked because it involves the willingness to mistreat others. When one prevents others from pursuing their justified self-interest, one mistreats them.

Selflessness is wicked because it involves the willingness to mistreat oneself. When one prevents oneself from pursuing one's justified self-interest, one mistreats oneself.

Wickedness, as you can see, is the willingness to mistreat someone.

Virtue, the opposite of wickedness, is pursuing one's justified self-interest, and allowing others to do the same (maybe even helping them).


eudaimonia,

Mark