All Fulfilled at the Cross?

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angelmom01

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Lulav, I do admire you for coming on a Christian board as a Jewess and at least attempting to talk to us with mostly our terminology (religious language). One thing you can't do and that is tell us how our christianity should be lived or what we should believe. I do understand your problem with concepts as the trinity, being Jewish. You can go to any bookstore and get a Strong's concordance and look for scripture quotes from or of Jesus saying My Father with Jesus being the reciepant ie My Father gave Me and there will be more than 30 listings of this type. Get one that highlight Jesus quotes. Make sure that it has definitions not just the times a word is translated as something. They range from 20 to 30 bucks. Even Barnes and Noble usually has one on the shelf. Or get one through the net. It is better for study purposes in a hard copy. I have wore out at least three of them.

Some ofmy most favorite buddies are Who, When, Where, Why and their ring leader How. They have made me many friends and a few enemies especially mindless parrots. So be a llittle more inquisitive.

bugkiller
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You do know that a Messianic is a Christian, right?
 
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angelmom01

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My answers will be in Dark Blue :)

****parts snipped to shorten reply****

I don't even see it as being translated as time(s) so it's a moot point for now. Besides the other definitions make me believe that it is the closest equivalent to the word in Hebrew of moed or plural moedim. I see my guess was right, I looked it up quickly and on a Greek Orthodox site it says that those two words are of the same meaning. So, with that established I can say what is meant by that. Definition a,b and c together would define this. The feasts of the L-RD are done in due season, each year, in his cyclical calendar. Jesus for example was born at a specific time so he could be crucified on a specific time (Kairos or Moed) for a specific purpose. So then my understanding stands, it is one specific time in the future when all is made new, G-ds plan for mankind is complete, and all is put back to rights as it was perfect in the beginning.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I wasn't as concerned about the word "times" (and whether or not it was singular or plural, though that was interesting) but more about the "refreshing" aspect.

You don't see the time (or times) of "refreshing" as having anything to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

If we look back to Genesis and Adam, it was not until God breathed "the breath of life" into Adam's (the first/natural man) nostril that Adam was made "a living soul" (previously being "dead"), right? This, to me, is a picture of God pouring out His spirit upon men (who are/were "dead" in sin) that they might pass from death unto life... as those who believe LIVE and those who LIVE AND BELIEVE shall never die. Correct?

This, according to the Psalms, is when we are "created" (in His image and after His likeness)... when He "renewest the face of the earth".

Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
That which was "made" was seen only in ADAM (out of the dust of the ground/earth). But that which was "created in the image and likeness of God" was THEM (male AND female); this being typical/allegorical of the union of CHRIST AND THE CHURCH.

This union took place at the cross, did it not? When God reconciled all (both Jew and Gentile) into ONE BODY, creating ONE NEW MAN? But that is only part of the picture, as Paul says:
"If we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection".

So it seems that we find ourselves planted in the likeness of His death but we do not yet know the power of His resurrection.... which would come by the pouring out the Holy Spirit, would it not? By "the renewing" of "the face of the earth" wherein we are "created" in His image and after His likeness, having CHRIST formed IN US? Passing from death unto life?


In address to the second part of your question: While he is absent in the flesh, (he still has flesh, only it is living flesh that is incorruptible). But while he in the flesh is in heaven performing the duties he needs to perform as our High Priest (that is the current position and state he is in now) he has sent us His/and the Father's Spirit to comfort us while we are separate from him. This is a very intimate love token. We also need to remember what else he is doing right now, he is preparing a place for us, he is our bridegroom and he has gone off to prepare the eternal home for us. But he knows that it will be quite awhile, not a short period of time like a earthly Jewish wedding so he sends us this part of himself to help us get through that waiting time.
When Jesus spoke of sending the Comforter, He said: "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you".

It is CHRIST IN YOU that is THE HOPE OF GLORY. Amen?

So I am not sure why you say that "the Comforter" comforts us while we are "separated" from Christ? He (and the Father) make their abode IN US, do they not? Jesus said that in that day (when the Comforter comes) we shall know that: "I am in the Father and He in me and I in you". Amen?

If "they" are ONE, then how can we have the Holy Spirit and not have both the Father and the Son? And is it not all about BEING CLOTHED UPON, that MORTALITY might be swallowed up OF LIFE?

But I do agree with you, that it is "at the time appointed" that God SENDS FORTH HIS SON. When we can be SONS (having the spirit OF THE SON) rather than being CHILDREN (tossed to and fro):
Gal 4:1-7 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Now that is truly REFRESHING!! :thumbsup: No?


Currently I believe that he was to come in the flesh twice. First time as the servant, like Joseph was a slave in Egypt (the last time his brothers saw him), but the second time he will appear in the flesh as the King (like Joseph was when his brothers saw him next). In between that time I believe he sends for his bride, but does not make an earthly appearance. When his second earthly appearance comes, that is when all Israel will recognize him and all Israel will be saved. However those who have hated them and G-d them he will destroy with the sword of his mouth. (Judgment day is later).
I'm certainly not saying that Christ will not make a second physical appearance, but I do not believe that this is the appearance that is being spoken about in the passage that I quoted.

I believe that Christ comes "the second time" unto them that look for Him... and we are told to "watch" for His appearing, as He comes "as a thief IN THE NIGHT", right? As I see it, this is because He comes unto them that "sleep"..... saying, "awake thou that sleepest and arise from the dead and Christ shall give thee LIGHT").

This, as I see it, is when we pass from DEATH unto LIFE... leaving behind THE NIGHT (DARKNESS = YESTERDAY, when it is past) into THE DAY (LIGHT = TODAY, when we hear His voice and harden not our hearts).


More to come, I went over the letter limit! :doh:
No problem!
 
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angelmom01

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Lulav, I will be back to address the rest of "Part 2", but I have to read through it again, first. In the meantime, I just wanted to go ahead and comment on the last part, since I think that you might have misunderstood me... which may have caused you more time/trouble than I intended when putting together your reply. :o

angelmom01 said:
[Can I request, again, that you not put your scriptures in quotes if you want them addressed? Anything in quotes does not carry over when someone replies to your post. You can indent them and get almost the same result as you do when quoting them - just without the "quote" indicator. Obviously you have your own posting style and this is only a request, but it would make it much easier for others to address them. Otherwise they don't stay with the quoted post and you have to go back to get them which you cannot always do if your reply is not on the same page of the thread. Thanks!]

I heard you the first time. :) However this is the way I've always posted to this board. When Erwin was here he had a different quoting system that would put the quotes in a little box. I don't care for this system but have made over 30,000 posts since being a member here for almost 10 years (I had a different account when I joined before, now defunct) and some habits are hard to break. I will try to use the indent feature, but please bear with me while I try to get the hang of it. Once you get past fifty, technical things don't 'click' as quickly as they used to! :)


I hope I have answered your questions and thank you for a lovely discussion. I have to come back to this later however since it's taken me two hours to make this one post and I have to get some work done! :)

Till next time................

First, as I said, I recognize that you have your own posting style and therefore it was just a request on my part. But I requested it only because I assume that when you post verses of scriptures in reply to a comment that you are responding to that you may want the person who you replying to to address that verse or passage in their reply. But since you put the verse in [ quote ] [ /quote ]<---- (like that without the spaces) it isn't picked up when someone "quotes" your post in order to reply.

So I wasn't asking you not to put what I said (or whoever you are responding to) in "quotes". I was only asking that you not put the scripture verses that you add to your own posts in "quotes"... so that they will be picked up with the rest of your post when it's quoted by someone, instead of being left behind with everything that was in quotes (from the person that you responded to).

If I am still not being clear, then please let me know and I will try to explain again or given an example... and I am sorry if it took you longer to reply to me because you tried to reply to me without "quoting" me. :o

Well, maybe I can just give you an example here...

For example if I wanted to post John 1:1 to you and I do it like this:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
When you use the quote button to quote this post and reply to it, that verse (^ up there) is not going to show up in the quoted material.... so if you want to address it, you'll have to either remember what it was or go back and copy-paste it back into your reply yourself... or not address it.

See what I mean?
 
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angelmom01

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Exactly!:thumbsup: And he said to them what he had read had been fulfilled in their very sight. But the part he did not read has yet to still be fulfilled by him. :)

Agreed!! :thumbsup:

Sorry, I think you are maybe confused about the Hebrew understanding of this? Yes, the Body of Messiah has one Head, that Head is in Heaven. You don't have to shout at me , I understand you are zealous for the truth, so am I more than most know. But I go by the words of Jesus himself and Understand them in the context they were given in.
You are offended by my use of capital letters (used for emphasis only, as is apparent in all of my posts at CF) and yet you think nothing of your own choice of words when replying to people? What makes you think that I don't understand something just because I disagree with you? We have been through this before, Lulav, haven't we? I could speak fluent Hebrew for all you know (I don't) and yet you just assume (without asking) that my understanding is different from yours because you have "a better understanding" of the Hebrew than I do?

That may or may not be true, but I doubt it matters all that much since even those to whom Jesus spoke in their native tongue did not understand what He was saying. So being able to "read the words" does not give anyone (fluent or otherwise) any advantage when it comes to understanding spiritual truths, does it? Isn't that why we need the Holy Spirit? Because "the natural man" CANNOT understand the things of God (no matter what language he speaks or what language it is written in)?

You also infer that I "can't understand" what Jesus said because I do not listen to "the words of Jesus himself and understand them in the context they were given in". Is that what you wish to say by inference?

The "context card" is an easy card to play when you disagree with someone. People use it all the time. But, in my experience, very seldom do those who "use it" actually back up their accusation by demonstrating that the person who they are accusing of taking something "out of context" actually did so. They just throw that card out on the table as if just saying it makes it true.

I, on the other hand, always try to show those who I am disagreeing with "why" I disagree with them... by explaining to them "how" I see something and "why" I might see it differently than they do (a difference that can occur even if both are addressing the verse in "the context" in which they see/understand it, mind you.... which is why you will almost never see me play that card... I prefer to just explain the difference - as I see it).

I'm not saying that you are not also doing this, but you do have a habit of talking down to those you talk to, as if it should be accepted as some sort of "fact" that your understanding is always "better" than those to whom you engage for the purpose of correcting them.

Perhaps others might have something that you could learn? :)


First let's get back to Joseph. Do you remember the story how the Pharaoh, who considered himself God put Joseph in charge of all he had? Do you remember how he told the people that when you see him, you are to treat him as if you had seen me myself? This was a picture of the True G-d and his son.

Pharaoh = True G-d
Joseph = Messiah, son of G-d

Now Jesus was the representation of G-d in Heaven, here on earth as was Joseph the representation of Pharaoh amongst the people but in his palace.

I am very well aware of the fact that Joseph is a type of Christ. :thumbsup:



Now before Jesus left, he choose someone to put in charge over his body, in a person. Jesus was a Rabbi, in fact he was 'The Rabbi'. Now he did not give that title to Peter because he taught them to call no man Rabbi, only he was their Rabbi, their teacher. But, he did give him one of the duties, privileges what ever you want to call it, that Rabbis of that day and still today have, that of making what we call Halakah. Literally interpreted it means the Way to walk. It means how to do the instructions given by G-d in the right way. That is why he said to him:

Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
This binding and loosing are terms used to describe a Rabbi's job or authority to make Halakah. Of course after the L-RD sent his Holy Spirit, this is what guided Peter to do this, as he did not make halakah of his own accord, but prayed so that the Messiah's will would be done.

The Rabbi (Jesus) was gone, and there needed to be someone to turn to when a doctrinal question came up. Jesus left Peter in charge of this, he said it himself and it is proper Jewish custom. True it was later taken away from the Jews and twisted and tainted from it's true meaning but that was how it started. That is why you see Peter at the believers headquarters in Jerusalem he didn't go back to fishing, he had a new job.:)
I strongly disagree. There is only one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus Christ, not Peter. Paul even tells us that once we have received "that anointing" (the Holy Spirit) we need not that ANY MAN teach us, as He (the Spirit of Truth/Christ) will teach us and lead us into all truth. Yes, until then, we do have "teachers" but it is God who places them in the body, as He sees fit to place them. This was not something that was limited to Peter. If it were, I wonder why most of the NT is written by Paul? Even Paul says that ALL may prophesy one by one... that all might judge. Paul just did not permit those who were spiritually immature (ie "babes" = "children" = "women", after a spiritual truth) to teach, as they were still in need of one to teach them, still being on milk (and not meat) themselves.


Yes, but this was not the time, they were being told by Peter to turn back to G-d fully, to repent, to accept the atonement Jesus had made for their sins. Atonement means to cover, not take away. Our sins will be taken away when all is made new, and that means that sin will no longer exist, no temptation, but pure as the L-RD made Adam and Eve to start with.
As "pure" as Adam and Eve were? With "no temptation"? You don't see a contradiction in that statement? You seem to be under the impression that Adam and Eve were "perfect" and they were not. And, clearly, they were not past the point of being able to be "tempted"?

Atonement means restoration/reconciliation. And we have received that, according to Rom 5:11, as Christ was our "propitiation" and, according to Paul, "all things are become new" (perfect, active, indicative case).

We might not be walking in it yet, but we are told to. Are we not? Is that because we really "can't"?


No, that is what this whole thread is about. He came in the flesh at that time to fulfill what had been written about him pertaining to that time. But like you saw, in that Isaiah passage when he was reading in the synagogue that he did not finish the reading. And the Day of the L-RD has not come yet. Just as he came the first time as the the lamb, the second time he will come as the majestic Lion! But the first time he did not fulfill that, nor has he yet. So all is not fulfilled.
No? Christ did not speak those words before His crucifixion, Lulav?

The OC was still in effect ~until~ the death of the testator of the NC, Lulav. Christ had to die in order to for the NC to take effect. The law was not fulfilled until the Lamb was sacrificed.

Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it..... and He did!! :thumbsup:

As far as THE DAY of the Lord is concerned, that "day" comes when we hear His voice and harden not our hearts... and we pass from death (night/darkness = yesterday) unto life (day/light = today).

It was fulfilled but not by him or not by him dying on the cross. this is what I've been trying to say. And there are still many things that need to be fulfilled and not until they are all fulfilled with the Torah be destroyed.
I disagree. To me, there is a difference between Christ fulfilling "the law" (which He did by dying on the cross and being resurrected) and "all prophesies" being fulfilled. The latter is not required in order for the law (given to Moses, which all pointed to the better thing to come = CHRIST) to be "done away in Christ".

:)
The Torah which many refer to as the Law, still has prophecies in it not fulfilled. What was fulfilled by the crucifixion is that a true spotless lamb, the lamb of G-d promised to come, to Abraham (this is how Abraham saw Jesus day as he speaks of in the Gospel of John) shed his blood, to cover our sins, and our debt to the consequences of breaking the law of G-d was paid. For those who believed of course.
I believe that everything written is fulfilled in Christ, even if not all realize it yet, most still walking in the flesh rather than the spirit. But even "the dead" are said to be "in Christ" as He is Lord "both of the living and the dead". However, it's only those who believe who PASS from death unto life... but that "life" is HID within all us, as He is "the light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world". It's just a matter of that light shining out of the darkness (and consuming it). As I see it, this happens at "the revelation of Jesus Christ" (Christ IN YOU). This is what Paul waited for... for Christ to be formed "in them" for them to be "delivered of the child" for "she" (Eve = the church/body of Christ) is "saved in childbearing". :thumbsup:

AM: So you don't see a difference between "the law" and "prophesies"?
Yes there is a difference, of course but if we are using the measuring stick that Jesus gave to tell us when they would be done away with we can't make a distinction in this case.
Why not? Surely you distinguished between those prophesies that were to be fulfilled by Christ (in one way or another) and those that were to be fulfilled in others (like John the baptist, Judas, and the disciple, for example).

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfil . 18 For verily I say unto you, Till * heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till * all be fulfilled . 19 Whosoever * therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
As you can see by this quote from Matthew 5 he is grouping them together here speaking of doing away with them. So here he sees them as a unit. Which is true in a sense. There would be no reason for prophets if all was followed in the Torah. Also Jesus is spoken of in both the Torah and the Prophets which does also include the Psalms too.

I still disagree, based on what's already been discussed. There is a difference. A New Covenant was made and it is not like the old.




He has come once, but promised to come again. At that time all will be fulfilled.
Why does no one count "Christ in you" which is the hope of glory? :confused:
John 14:18-20 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He comes "the second time" unto them that look for him, not as a sin offering, but to bring salvation:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
:bow:

The rest was already addressed in a separate post. :thumbsup:
 
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bugkiller

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Sorry, I should have been clearer. I wasn't as concerned about the word "times" (and whether or not it was singular or plural, though that was interesting) but more about the "refreshing" aspect.

You don't see the time (or times) of "refreshing" as having anything to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

If we look back to Genesis and Adam, it was not until God breathed "the breath of life" into Adam's (the first/natural man) nostril that Adam was made "a living soul" (previously being "dead"), right? This, to me, is a picture of God pouring out His spirit upon men (who are/were "dead" in sin) that they might pass from death unto life... as those who believe LIVE and those who LIVE AND BELIEVE shall never die. Correct?
I have a question for you how can anything be dead if it never had life? I think the breath of life is very different than God's Spirit overwhelming men as in Joel 2:28, 29.
This, according to the Psalms, is when we are "created" (in His image and after His likeness)... when He "renewest the face of the earth".
Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
That which was "made" was seen only in ADAM (out of the dust of the ground/earth). But that which was "created in the image and likeness of God" was THEM (male AND female); this being typical/allegorical of the union of CHRIST AND THE CHURCH.

This union took place at the cross, did it not? When God reconciled all (both Jew and Gentile) into ONE BODY, creating ONE NEW MAN? But that is only part of the picture, as Paul says:
"If we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection".

So it seems that we find ourselves planted in the likeness of His death but we do not yet know the power of His resurrection.... which would come by the pouring out the Holy Spirit, would it not? By "the renewing" of "the face of the earth" wherein we are "created" in His image and after His likeness, having CHRIST formed IN US? Passing from death unto life?


When Jesus spoke of sending the Comforter, He said: "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you".

It is CHRIST IN YOU that is THE HOPE OF GLORY. Amen?

So I am not sure why you say that "the Comforter" comforts us while we are "separated" from Christ? He (and the Father) make their abode IN US, do they not? Jesus said that in that day (when the Comforter comes) we shall know that: "I am in the Father and He in me and I in you". Amen?

If "they" are ONE, then how can we have the Holy Spirit and not have both the Father and the Son? And is it not all about BEING CLOTHED UPON, that MORTALITY might be swallowed up OF LIFE?

But I do agree with you, that it is "at the time appointed" that God SENDS FORTH HIS SON. When we can be SONS (having the spirit OF THE SON) rather than being CHILDREN (tossed to and fro):
Gal 4:1-7 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Now that is truly REFRESHING!! :thumbsup: No?

I'm certainly not saying that Christ will not make a second physical appearance, but I do not believe that this is the appearance that is being spoken about in the passage that I quoted.

I believe that Christ comes "the second time" unto them that look for Him... and we are told to "watch" for His appearing, as He comes "as a thief IN THE NIGHT", right? As I see it, this is because He comes unto them that "sleep"..... saying, "awake thou that sleepest and arise from the dead and Christ shall give thee LIGHT").

This, as I see it, is when we pass from DEATH unto LIFE... leaving behind THE NIGHT (DARKNESS = YESTERDAY, when it is past) into THE DAY (LIGHT = TODAY, when we hear His voice and harden not our hearts).

No problem!
Wow! some wild ideas for sure. I thought I have heard plenty and certianly not everything.

bugkiller
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bugkiller

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Agreed!! :thumbsup:

You are offended by my use of capital letters (used for emphasis only, as is apparent in all of my posts at CF) and yet you think nothing of your own choice of words when replying to people? What makes you think that I don't understand something just because I disagree with you? We have been through this before, Lulav, haven't we? I could speak fluent Hebrew for all you know (I don't) and yet you just assume (without asking) that my understanding is different from yours because you have "a better understanding" of the Hebrew than I do?

That may or may not be true, but I doubt it matters all that much since even those to whom Jesus spoke in their native tongue did not understand what He was saying. So being able to "read the words" does not give anyone (fluent or otherwise) any advantage when it comes to understanding spiritual truths, does it? Isn't that why we need the Holy Spirit? Because "the natural man" CANNOT understand the things of God (no matter what language he speaks or what language it is written in)?

You also infer that I "can't understand" what Jesus said because I do not listen to "the words of Jesus himself and understand them in the context they were given in". Is that what you wish to say by inference?

The "context card" is an easy card to play when you disagree with someone. People use it all the time. But, in my experience, very seldom do those who "use it" actually back up their accusation by demonstrating that the person who they are accusing of taking something "out of context" actually did so. They just throw that card out on the table as if just saying it makes it true.

I, on the other hand, always try to show those who I am disagreeing with "why" I disagree with them... by explaining to them "how" I see something and "why" I might see it differently than they do (a difference that can occur even if both are addressing the verse in "the context" in which they see/understand it, mind you.... which is why you will almost never see me play that card... I prefer to just explain the difference - as I see it).

I'm not saying that you are not also doing this, but you do have a habit of talking down to those you talk to, as if it should be accepted as some sort of "fact" that your understanding is always "better" than those to whom you engage for the purpose of correcting them.

Perhaps others might have something that you could learn? :)



I am very well aware of the fact that Joseph is a type of Christ. :thumbsup:


I strongly disagree. There is only one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus Christ, not Peter. Paul even tells us that once we have received "that anointing" (the Holy Spirit) we need not that ANY MAN teach us, as He (the Spirit of Truth/Christ) will teach us and lead us into all truth. Yes, until then, we do have "teachers" but it is God who places them in the body, as He sees fit to place them. This was not something that was limited to Peter. If it were, I wonder why most of the NT is written by Paul? Even Paul says that ALL may prophesy one by one... that all might judge. Paul just did not permit those who were spiritually immature (ie "babes" = "children" = "women", after a spiritual truth) to teach, as they were still in need of one to teach them, still being on milk (and not meat) themselves.


As "pure" as Adam and Eve were? With "no temptation"? You don't see a contradiction in that statement? You seem to be under the impression that Adam and Eve were "perfect" and they were not. And, clearly, they were not past the point of being able to be "tempted"?

Atonement means restoration/reconciliation. And we have received that, according to Rom 5:11, as Christ was our "propitiation" and, according to Paul, "all things are become new" (perfect, active, indicative case).

We might not be walking in it yet, but we are told to. Are we not? Is that because we really "can't"?


No? Christ did not speak those words before His crucifixion, Lulav?

The OC was still in effect ~until~ the death of the testator of the NC, Lulav. Christ had to die in order to for the NC to take effect. The law was not fulfilled until the Lamb was sacrificed.

Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it..... and He did!! :thumbsup:

As far as THE DAY of the Lord is concerned, that "day" comes when we hear His voice and harden not our hearts... and we pass from death (night/darkness = yesterday) unto life (day/light = today).

I disagree. To me, there is a difference between Christ fulfilling "the law" (which He did by dying on the cross and being resurrected) and "all prophesies" being fulfilled. The latter is not required in order for the law (given to Moses, which all pointed to the better thing to come = CHRIST) to be "done away in Christ".

:)I believe that everything written is fulfilled in Christ, even if not all realize it yet, most still walking in the flesh rather than the spirit. But even "the dead" are said to be "in Christ" as He is Lord "both of the living and the dead". However, it's only those who believe who PASS from death unto life... but that "life" is HID within all us, as He is "the light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world". It's just a matter of that light shining out of the darkness (and consuming it). As I see it, this happens at "the revelation of Jesus Christ" (Christ IN YOU). This is what Paul waited for... for Christ to be formed "in them" for them to be "delivered of the child" for "she" (Eve = the church/body of Christ) is "saved in childbearing". :thumbsup:

Why not? Surely you distinguished between those prophesies that were to be fulfilled by Christ (in one way or another) and those that were to be fulfilled in others (like John the baptist, Judas, and the disciple, for example).

I still disagree, based on what's already been discussed. There is a difference. A New Covenant was made and it is not like the old.




Why does no one count "Christ in you" which is the hope of glory? :confused:
John 14:18-20 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He comes "the second time" unto them that look for him, not as a sin offering, but to bring salvation:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
:bow:

The rest was already addressed in a separate post. :thumbsup:
nice post

bugkiller
927154.gif
 
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Fireinfolding

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Great post Angelmom :thumbsup:

Ecc 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Jesus Christ is the same "Yesterday" "To Day" and "For ever"

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. :thumbsup:

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

TO DAY if you HEAR His voice :clap:

Yesterday is the dead (the shadow) as the dead know nothing

Job 8:9(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)

Death reigned in "Yesterday" = shown as a thousand years (past when darkness called "night") is past

"To Day" (if ye hear my voice) is of the dead hearing the voice of the Son of and LIVE (Live and reign IN LIFE)

The day is divided (thousand years AS A DAY) in his sight.

Shows a reign/ in death ("Yesterday" shown as a thousand years) a reign/ in life ("Today" shown as a thousand years) and a reign in the "For ever" (not included in the division, but an extention of that division)

His words are awesome :thumbsup:
 
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angelmom01

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I have a question for you how can anything be dead if it never had life?
Isn't the very definition of "dead" that which has "no life"?

I was addressing it as a similitude. There are many things "hidden" in Genesis (as well as much of the OT) that reveals spiritual truths, allegorically. Even Paul spoke of Sarah and Hagar as representing "two covenants".

I think the breath of life is very different than God's Spirit overwhelming men as in Joel 2:28, 29.
I was speaking of it allegorically... as one "typifying" the other.


Wow! some wild ideas for sure. I thought I have heard plenty and certianly not everything.

bugkiller
927154.gif
Probably not. :)
 
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angelmom01

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Great post Angelmom :thumbsup:

Ecc 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Jesus Christ is the same "Yesterday" "To Day" and "For ever"

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. :thumbsup:

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

TO DAY if you HEAR His voice :clap:

Yesterday is the dead (the shadow) as the dead know nothing

Job 8:9(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)

Death reigned in "Yesterday" = shown as a thousand years (past when darkness called "night") is past

"To Day" (if ye hear my voice) is of the dead hearing the voice of the Son of and LIVE (Live and reign IN LIFE)

The day is divided (thousand years AS A DAY) in his sight.

Shows a reign/ in death ("Yesterday" shown as a thousand years) a reign/ in life ("Today" shown as a thousand years) and a reign in the "For ever" (not included in the division, but an extention of that division)

His words are awesome :thumbsup:

:amen:


I'd try to add more... maybe tomorrow... it's late and I should have gone to bed a half-hour ago... Goodnight!!!

:sleep: <---- me in about 2 minutes!!!! ^_^
 
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Lulav

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What's up with the icon change?

Hmmm......I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it. She used to have an MJ scroll....

Good question.:thumbsup:

It is interesting that the ones that like to dog my posts are so concerned with my icon, why is that? Most people that were truly concerned would have pm'd me, but putting it in my thread, besides derailing it, shows you have no interest in the subject, just looking for some way to attack me. I'm not surprised at all at the names I see here.

I changed it and then I changed it again, I am trying to find something that represents my beliefs but CF is limited to labels. So I choose one that fits the closest and then I hid it from view.

I don't like G-d in a box and I don't like to be put in one and judged by one either. :):wave:
 
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laconicstudent

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It is interesting that the ones that like to dog my posts are so concerned with my icon, why is that?

Well, I don't really care, but one's eligibility to post in this subforum is contingent on which faith icon you choose. And multiple icon changes in short periods of time is generally considered significant for obvious reasons.

Most people that were truly concerned would have pm'd me, but putting it in my thread, besides derailing it, shows you have no interest in the subject, just looking for some way to attack me. I'm not surprised at all at the names I see here.

Or some people, like me, simply dislike PMs. Interpreting everything posters do through such a confrontational lens isn't going to help.
 
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JamesAH

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It is interesting that the ones that like to dog my posts are so concerned with my icon, why is that? Most people that were truly concerned would have pm'd me, but putting it in my thread, besides derailing it, shows you have no interest in the subject, just looking for some way to attack me. I'm not surprised at all at the names I see here.

I changed it and then I changed it again, I am trying to find something that represents my beliefs but CF is limited to labels. So I choose one that fits the closest and then I hid it from view.

I don't like G-d in a box and I don't like to be put in one and judged by one either. :):wave:

Attack you lol I wasn't attacking you so stop being paranoid alright :doh:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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