Would God eat a ham sandwich?

LittleLambofJesus said:

Not any more different than others.
I generally use YoungLT and Rotherham to compare with the greek texts and as far as I can see, the 3 major greek texts agree....that is most important in my humble view.
How do they read in yours?

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

Young) Matthew 2:17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying,

Rotherham)
Matthew 2:17 Then was fulfilled, that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying:

Textus Rec.)
Matthew 2:17 tote eplhrwqh to rhqen upo ieremiou tou profhtou legontoV

W-H )
Matthew 2:17 tote eplhrwqh to rhqen dia ieremiou tou profhtou legontoV

Byz./Maj.)
Matthew 2:17 tote eplhrwqh to rhqen upo ieremiou tou profhtou legontoV

Young) Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, `And I took the thirty silverlings, the price of him who hath been priced, whom they of the sons of Israel did price,

Rotherham) Matthew 27:9 Then, was fulfilled, that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying: And they took the thirty pieces of silver, as the value of him whom they had valued, whom they had valued, of Israel's sons,--

Textus Rec.)
Matthew 27:9 tote eplhrwqh to rhqen dia ieremiou tou profhtou legontoV kai elabon ta triakonta arguria thn timhn tou tetimhmenou on etimhsanto apo uiwn israhl

W-H )
Matthew 27:9 tote eplhrwqh to rhqen dia ieremiou tou profhtou legontoV kai elabon ta triakonta arguria thn timhn tou tetimhmenou on etimhsanto apo uiwn israhl

Byz./Maj.)
Matthew 27:9 tote eplhrwqh to rhqen dia ieremiou tou profhtou legontoV kai elabon ta triakonta arguria thn timhn tou tetimhmenou on etimhsanto apo uiwn israhl

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Somewhat the same but it wasnt Jeremiah that said that check it yourself, run "thirty pieces silver" It was Zechariah as it shows it there twice even as its in Mathew twice as well

Fireinfolding said:

Somewhat the same but it wasnt Jeremiah that said that check it yourself, run "thirty pieces silver" It was Zechariah as it shows it there twice even as its in Mathew twice as well

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Yeah...but I don't want to get into that here on the ham sandwich thread

Jeremiah of Matthew 27:9,10

Who said it, Zechariah or Jeremiah?

LittleLambofJesus said:

Yeah...but I don't want to get into that here on the ham sandwich thread

Jeremiah of Matthew 27:9,10

Who said it, Zechariah or Jeremiah?

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Thought not

Hey Lamb, why not seeing your the King of changing the subject?

Dont respond I wont go there. I just needed to check on the most PERFECT translation

Fireinfolding said:

Thought not

Hey Lamb, why not seeing your the King of changing the subject?

Dont respond I wont go there. I just needed to check on the most PERFECT translation

Click to expand...

When ya find one, let me know

visionary said:

this question came out of another thread, and they used Jesus, but since Jesus would not do anything but that which His Father would do, I asked it this way.

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since Jesus did not,
and it is against the health laws....
and against basic intellect....
and against healthy food science.....
I'd say NO.

scavengers are NOT good eating food.
you won't go to hell for eating bacon or a pork chop,
but you'll get sick and die a lot quicker....



scavengers were not meant for us to eat...
they clean up the garbage....
pigs will eat anything....
shellfish live on the ocean's flood sucking up all the pollutents
that fall to the sea bed level....
there are reasons why God doesnn't want us to eat that stuff....
and science now agrees.

visionary said:

The most important clue for understanding any passage in the Bible is to check the context. In this case, its given in Mark 7:1-5 where Yeshua is asked, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the Tradition of the Elders, but eat their bread with unwashed hands?" (v.5).

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In Mark 7:1-23 Christ affirms the importance of what's in the heart as opposed to external traditions.

Proverbs 4:23 says, "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." Our thoughts, feelings, and actions all flow out of the heart.

Ephesians 6:6--"[Do] the will of God from the heart." The heart is where our thoughts and actions are generated.

Jeremiah 17:9--"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?"

Genesis 6:5--"God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Matthew 15:19-20--"Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man; but to eat with unwashed hands defileth not a man." Jesus was saying to the Pharisees, "You make such a big deal out of ceremonial washing, but God is concerned about the heart." In verse 18 He says, "Those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man."

James 4:8--"Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts." God wants changed hearts.

Psalm 51:10--David said, "Create in me a clean heart, O God."

Psalm 73:1--"Truly God is good to Israel, even to such as are of a clean heart."

God is concerned about the inside of a person. If you go to church every day of the week, carry a Bible around and recite verses, but your heart isn't clean, you haven't met God's standard. It doesn't matter how religious you are on the outside.

Originally Posted by Fireinfolding Thought not

Hey Lamb, why not seeing your the King of changing the subject?

Dont respond I wont go there. I just needed to check on the most PERFECT translation

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LittleLambofJesus said:

When ya find one, let me know

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Ok, one of the differences I see is, are the greek words #5259 and #1223 used in those verses.

What significance that is, I have no idea....perhaps others here do?

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

T-R/LLOJ) Matthew 2:17 Then was fulfilled, that which was spoken thru/upo <5259> Jeremiah the prophet, saying:

Textus Rec.) Matthew 2:17 tote eplhrwqh to rhqen upo ieremiou tou profhtou legontoV

5259. hupo hoop-o' a primary preposition; under, i.e. (with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through); (with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)):--

T-R/LLOJ) Matt 27:9 Then was fulfilled thru/dia <1223> Jeremiah the Prophet saying 'and they got the thirty silvers, the value of the one having being valued, whom they value from sons of Israel'

Textus Rec.) Matthew 27:9 tote eplhrwqh to rhqen dia ieremiou tou profhtou legontoV kai elabon ta triakonta arguria thn timhn tou tetimhmenou on etimhsanto apo uiwn israhl

1223. dia dee-ah' a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional):--

I can has ham sammich

visionary said:

It is our view of God that makes us behave the way we do... If we truly want to emulate Him, we would be asking Him, what would He do. If there is an example, or a statement made by Him [especially if He makes it, as He changes NOT] it goes a long ways to showing us His character, His mind on the matter, and His way of thinking it should be handled.

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And it goes a long way to reveal a man's character that would make fun of anything G-d said, whenever he said it.

Fireinfolding said:

God created (invented) men too right (filthy sinners we become) Jesus ate with sinners.

He does spue some out of his mouth though but didnt that have to do with the temperature of them?

(kidding with cha, dont get mad again)

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NP,

Well G-d created man perfect and then man fell. He did not create us filthy sinners, we (through Adam) became sinners when we disobeyed one commandment.

"Jesus ate with sinners"

I see that a lot in these kinds of threads and always wonder why this is used in reply so much. Everyone is a sinner, we have all fallen short, that is, all but him. Right? I think though that most get that from the wording in the gospels. Matthew was considered a sinner because he was a tax-collector. It was 'sin' defined by the Pharisees and not G-d's Torah. But many will tell you that Jesus ate with sinners to justify hanging out with people that are knowingly sinning, which we aren't to do. Or they use it to justify sinful behavior of their own. Like a few years back I heard of a group holding a Bible study in a Hooters. Those that were there did not live there 24/7 they could be reached with the gospel outside of that place, it was just an excuse and that verse is usually used to justify it.

Yes, he was talking to the congregation of Laodicia. It seems that there were/is natural springs not far away and they had a Roman Aquaduct to bring this water into the city. But by the time it got there it was lukewarm. It did not bring you warm and soothing waters, nor was it cold to give you refreshment, but really rather useless, couldn't cool you or warm you.

zeke37 said:

since Jesus did not,
and it is against the health laws....
and against basic intellect....
and against healthy food science.....
I'd say NO.

scavengers are NOT good eating food.
you won't go to hell for eating bacon or a pork chop,
but you'll get sick and die a lot quicker....



scavengers were not meant for us to eat...
they clean up the garbage....
pigs will eat anything....
shellfish live on the ocean's flood sucking up all the pollutents
that fall to the sea bed level....
there are reasons why God doesnn't want us to eat that stuff....
and science now agrees.

Click to expand...

Just wanna let you know that God fed Elijah in the wilderness using unclean birds and unclean unwashed food. (LIke where do you think they found it? Ravens are scavengers and garbage eaters). I know God is not as concerned about our diets as he is about the state of our hearts and I will not despise any provision he supplies even cheap pork.

Lulav said:

NP,

Well G-d created man perfect and then man fell. He did not create us filthy sinners, we (through Adam) became sinners when we disobeyed one commandment.

"Jesus ate with sinners"

I see that a lot in these kinds of threads and always wonder why this is used in reply so much. Everyone is a sinner, we have all fallen short, that is, all but him. Right? I think though that most get that from the wording in the gospels. Matthew was considered a sinner because he was a tax-collector. It was 'sin' defined by the Pharisees and not G-d's Torah. But many will tell you that Jesus ate with sinners to justify hanging out with people that are knowingly sinning, which we aren't to do. Or they use it to justify sinful behavior of their own. Like a few years back I heard of a group holding a Bible study in a Hooters. Those that were there did not live there 24/7 they could be reached with the gospel outside of that place, it was just an excuse and that verse is usually used to justify it.

Yes, he was talking to the congregation of Laodicia. It seems that there were/is natural springs not far away and they had a Roman Aquaduct to bring this water into the city. But by the time it got there it was lukewarm. It did not bring you warm and soothing waters, nor was it cold to give you refreshment, but really rather useless, couldn't cool you or warm you.

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Both, lukewarm as well as those who follows the laws are the ones professing professing Christians who play games, but are not really His. God is not impressed by my works (1. Samuel 16:7). The Lord said to Samuel, "Don't judge by his appearance or height, for I have rejected him. The Lord don't make decisions the way you do. People judge by outward appearance (i.e. works), but the Lord looks at a person's thoughts and intentions (heart)." (NLT) Judging based on appearance and doctrines are man-centered more than God-center. "A pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself" (A.W. Tozer). Those who similar to Pharisees' attitudes are those who magnifies the faults of those who based others on appearance and diminishes their graces, while they promote their doctrines

gratefulgrace said:

Just wanna let you know that God fed Elijah in the wilderness using unclean birds and unclean unwashed food. (LIke where do you think they found it? Ravens are scavengers and garbage eaters). I know God is not as concerned about our diets as he is about the state of our hearts and I will not despise any provision he supplies even cheap pork.

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I sometimes get a little "giggle" from the story in Exodus 16/Numbers 11 when the OC Israelites wanted meat and YHWH sent them a hoard of quails and they still murmured against the LORD

Rotherham) Exodus 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the sons of Israel,--speak unto them, saying--Between the two evenings, shall ye eat flesh, and in the morning, shall ye be filled with bread,--so shall ye know that I Yahweh am your God.
13 And it came to pass, in the evening, that there came up quail, and covered the camp,--and in the morning was the outpouring of dew, round about the camp;
14 and when the outpouring of dew went up, then lo! on the face of the desert, a thin flake, thin as hoar-frost on the earth,'

[Rotherham] Numbers 11:31 Now a wind, had sprung up, from Yahweh, and cut off quails from the sea and let them lie over the camp--as it were a days journey here and a days journey there, round about the amp,--and as it were two cubits on the face of the land.
32 And the people rose up all that day and all the night and all the next day, and gathered the quails, he that did least, gathered ten homers,--and they spread them out for themselves spreading away, round about the camp.
33 The flesh, was yet between their teeth, not yet chewed,--when the anger of Yahweh had kindled upon the people and Yahweh smote the people, with an exceeding great plague.

Have you heard the one about Karen Carpenter, Mama Cass and the ham samwich?

Tangible said:

Yeah, OK. Let's look at other translations (the one I originally posted was the ESV, one of the versions you claim does not include the parenthetical text, btw.)

And I've already demonstrated that this text is present in the original Greek.

bible.cc/mark/7-19.htm

New International Version (©1984)
For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")
New Living Translation (©2007)
Food doesn't go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer." (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God's eyes.)
English Standard Version (©2001)
since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?&#8221; (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)
International Standard Version (©2008)
Because it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and is expelled as waste." (By this he declared all foods clean.)
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
It doesn't go into his thoughts but into his stomach and then into a toilet." (By saying this, Jesus declared all foods acceptable.)
King James Bible
Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
American King James Version
Because it enters not into his heart, but into the belly, and goes out into the draught, purging all meats?
American Standard Version
because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said , making all meats clean.
Bible in Basic English
Because it goes not into the heart but into the stomach, and goes out with the waste? He said this, making all food clean.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Because it entereth not into his heart, but goeth into the belly, and goeth out into the privy, purging all meats?
Darby Bible Translation
because it does not enter into his heart but into his belly, and goes out into the draught, purging all meats?
English Revised Version
because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all meats clean.
Webster's Bible Translation
Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all kinds of food.
Weymouth New Testament
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and passes away ejected from him?" By these words Jesus pronounced all kinds of food clean.
World English Bible
because it doesn't go into his heart, but into his stomach, then into the latrine, thus purifying all foods?"
Young's Literal Translation
because it doth not enter into his heart, but into the belly, and into the drain it doth go out, purifying all the meats.'

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I'm surprised there isn't a version that says [thus saying y'all can eat Ham sandwiches Now! ( on Jewish rye of course!) ]

As far as I know there is no original manuscript to say it was in the original Greek. So. lets go by the premise that it 'was' in there. Here's some questions to consider.

1. Do you think then in Acts 10 when the 'sheet' came down Peter forgot that Jesus had made all animals clean to eat, years ago? Why did he argue with the L-RD and say, no way! I've never eaten unclean food in my whole life (paraphrasing here, you can look it up). Why would he argue this point if it was already settled? Could he really have forgotten? If so why would Messiah put him in charge of the whole Congregation? Something you do everyday, eating, and he couldn't even remember what Jesus said about this?

2. If he was changing the law of eating before the cross how did he nail that to the cross if he already abolished the dietary laws before the Cross? Don't Christians preach that the law was done away with after the cross?

3. Except for the ASV, they all say 'food'. So "if" Jesus did say this, and I haven't even touched on this part yet, that the whole conversation was not on eating kosher it was about eating with unwashed hands. I've posted this before and y'all keep ignoring it. It was about the oral law of the Pharisees, they accused him, as their teacher, their Rabbi of allowing them to not keep the laws 'traditions' of the fathers, not G-d laws. That is why he had the whole conversation with them. So even if he did say this, and I'm stretching here, do you know that he was a Jew? talking to Jews, speaking things to them that they would understand but others outside would not? When a Jew says 'food' ( I should clarify that as meaning an observant Jew, one who keeps the Torah commandments) that they mean only what G-d called food? What foods he gave us a list of in the book of Leviticus? So it didn't change what they were eating only that they didn't have to uphold the oral laws, the yoke that is heavy, of washing your hands in a certain way before eating. That's the 'law' he did away with, the laws and doctrines of men, not G-d.

4. If he changed this, a Torah law then why wasn't there an uproar of him breaking Torah? Weren't they always looking out for something to get him on? This would have been a perfect opportunity. Perfect.

LittleLambofJesus said:

I sometimes get a little "giggle" from the story in Exodus 16/Numbers 11 when the OC Israelites wanted meat and YHWH sent them a hoard of quails and they still murmured against the LORD

Rotherham) Exodus 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the sons of Israel,--speak unto them, saying--Between the two evenings, shall ye eat flesh, and in the morning, shall ye be filled with bread,--so shall ye know that I Yahweh am your God.
13 And it came to pass, in the evening, that there came up quail, and covered the camp,--and in the morning was the outpouring of dew, round about the camp;
14 and when the outpouring of dew went up, then lo! on the face of the desert, a thin flake, thin as hoar-frost on the earth,'

[Rotherham] Numbers 11:31 Now a wind, had sprung up, from Yahweh, and cut off quails from the sea and let them lie over the camp--as it were a days journey here and a days journey there, round about the amp,--and as it were two cubits on the face of the land.
32 And the people rose up all that day and all the night and all the next day, and gathered the quails, he that did least, gathered ten homers,--and they spread them out for themselves spreading away, round about the camp.
33 The flesh, was yet between their teeth, not yet chewed,--when the anger of Yahweh had kindled upon the people and Yahweh smote the people, with an exceeding great plague.

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Was this the time?

Psalm 78:25 And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.

Sounds like

James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Psalm 78:26 He caused an east wind to blow in the heaven: and by his power he brought in the south wind.

Psalm 78:27 He rained flesh also upon them as dust, and feathered fowls like as the sand of the sea


Psalm 78:28 And he let it fall in the midst of their camp, round about their habitations.

Psalm 78:29 So they did eat, and were well filled: for he gave them their own desire

Psalm 78:30 They were not estranged from their lust. But while their meat was yet in their mouths,

Psalm 78:31 The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.

Is this speaking to the same as well?

1Cr 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1Cr 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1Cr 8:10 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

1Cr 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1Cr 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Tangible said:

I'll post this one last scripture reference, then I'm going to quit posting in this thread.

To the SDA and Messianic posters, if I have despised or passed judgment on you for abstaining, I apologize and ask your forgiveness.

Romans 14:1-6

14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

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Again another misinterpretation of a letter. This is speaking of vegetarianism, those who are weak eat only vegetables. I eat meat, kosher meat, and vegetables, I eat Kosher, it means 'fit to eat for a human being'.

I know that men are more stuborn in this and really don't know what is good for them but they know their cars. If the manufacturer of your car told you to use a specific octane gasoline and special tires and other things like that to make your baby run the best it could, wouldn't you do it? Or would you use the worst octane, cheap oil, the wrong size tires, pour sugar in your tank? And if someone came along and said you don't need to follow those instructions by the manufacturer and designer of your car because that's legalism, would you stop? Or would you keep doing what is best to make your car run the best it can?

Thank you for your apology, but those verses aren't directed at me, my faith is not weak and I don't believe in vegetarianism. I am also not a Sabbatarian either. I don't abstain, I eat pretty much all the foods that the L-RD says are good for me to eat. Except I am sure I have not tried all the fish that have fins and scales yet!

If you take away nothing from this discussion please think about this, the reason sin came into the world was because of not following one single commandment. There were many many trees in the garden of G-d and he gave permission to eat from every tree but one. Disobeying and eating from that one tree put a curse on all mankind, and G-d himself had to pay the price for it.