"for I am having 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

1whirlwind

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Very good question :thumbsup:


The descent of Christ is counted from Judah, as Mary's father was of Judah but He is also of Levi through Mary's mother. He isn't counted (numbered) of them as the numbering is through the father. And too....the Levites were not to be numbered/counted.
Numbers 1:47-49 But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them. For the Lord had spoken unto Moses, saying, "Only thou shalt NOT NUMBER THE TRIBE OF LEVI, neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:
The counting or numbering was done through "the tribe of their fathers" and the Levites were not to be numbered. They, the priest line, were not to receive an inheritance as did their brother tribes because God is their inheritance....
18:20 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have NO inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
So Christ is counted (numbered) of Judah but His lineage is also of Levi. Through that lineage He is of the Kingly line - Judah, and the priestly line - Levi.
Hebrews 7:14-17 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For He testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
It is evident He was of Judah but it is even more evident that He was a priest for He "art a priest for ever." Only those of Levi can be priests.
7:24-28 But this Man, because He continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this He did once, when He offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
 
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1whirlwind

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Hbr. 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So, why doesn't the author of Hebrews say our Lord sprang out of Levi? Sorry, but there was no mixing of Levi with Judah/Benjamin. They traced His lineage you know. Nothing about Levi.

Mary, the mother of Christ, was the daughter of both Levi and Judah. Her father was of Judah and mother of Levi. Hence, Christ was of both the kingly and priestly line....King of Kings and High Priest.
 
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Fireinfolding

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The descent of Christ is counted from Judah, as Mary's father was of Judah but He is also of Levi through Mary's mother. He isn't counted (numbered) of them as the numbering is through the father. And too....the Levites were not to be numbered/counted.
Numbers 1:47-49 But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them. For the Lord had spoken unto Moses, saying, "Only thou shalt NOT NUMBER THE TRIBE OF LEVI, neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:
The counting or numbering was done through "the tribe of their fathers" and the Levites were not to be numbered. They, the priest line, were not to receive an inheritance as did their brother tribes because God is their inheritance....
18:20 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have NO inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
So Christ is counted (numbered) of Judah but His lineage is also of Levi. Through that lineage He is of the Kingly line - Judah, and the priestly line - Levi.
Hebrews 7:14-17 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For He testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

It is evident He was of Judah but it is even more evident that He was a priest for He "art a priest for ever." Only those of Levi can be priests.
7:24-28 But this Man, because He continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this He did once, when He offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Yes I get all this but I dont get diving into all the genealogies of it all, as it says, "lion of the tribe of Juda" so is evident he sprang from there wherein Moses spake nothing of the priesthood ...Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Wheres his Genealogy? There is none ^_^
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Yes I get all this but I dont get diving into all the genealogies of it all, as it says, "lion of the tribe of Juda" so is evident he sprang from there wherein Moses spake nothing of the priesthood ...Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Wheres his Genealogy? There is none ^_^
Did you ever get a chance to read thru this commentary on Melchizedek :)

Kindgdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood Part 24
Melchizedek

In Genesis, chapter fourteen, we have one of the most intriguing stories in the Bible, that of Abram's encounter with Melchizedek, king of Salem, and "the priest of the Most High God." In the Genesis story Melchizedek is a strange and mysterious figure. He flashes across the scene like a meteor.

There is no heralding of his appearance, nor any mention of its results. He arrives out of the blue; there is no account of his family; there is nothing about his birth, his descent, his life, his work, or his death. He simply arrives.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Did you ever get a chance to read thru this commentary on Melchizedek :)

Kindgdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood Part 24
Melchizedek

In Genesis, chapter fourteen, we have one of the most intriguing stories in the Bible, that of Abram's encounter with Melchizedek, king of Salem, and "the priest of the Most High God." In the Genesis story Melchizedek is a strange and mysterious figure. He flashes across the scene like a meteor.

There is no heralding of his appearance, nor any mention of its results. He arrives out of the blue; there is no account of his family; there is nothing about his birth, his descent, his life, his work, or his death. He simply arrives.

Probrobly not Lamby I rarely go to these links ya post, because if I did I would be diverted away from every thread I am on when you post to me ^_^

Every post contains links to other threads... then to others, then others, then others... and so forth ^_^

I only have so much time here ^_^
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Probrobly not Lamby I rarely go to these links ya post, because if I did I would be diverted away from every thread I am on when you post to me ^_^

Every post contains links to other threads... then to others, then others, then others... and so forth ^_^

I only have so much time here ^_^
Okie Dokie....:hug:
now, back to the "for I am having 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

Original OP:

I read thru a commentary some years back when I started translating this parable in Luke 16 and came across the 5 brothers mentioned.

How do others view these or who they are symbolizing?

According to the MJ commentary below, it was symbolizing the House/Nation of Judah.

Luke 16:28" For I am having Five Brothers that he may be testifying to them, that no also they may be coming into the place, this, of the torment".

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

*snip*

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Christ was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who He was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the house of Judah, the Jews!
 
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1whirlwind

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Well, I figure that is the Jews problem, as they are still trying to round up Priests for their new future temple, but since all the records were destroyed in the destruction of the Temple in ad70, I suppose they will have to use DNA to see which one them originated from the tribe of Levi :)

I did find this interesting tho. Levi is mention "8th" in order of the tribes mentioned in Revelation [tho he was born 3rd from Leah [Gene 29:34]

1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

Coincidentaly, Reve 17:11 mentions the w-b as the "8th" which is of the 7. I am working on this now :wave:

Revelation 17:11 And the wild-beast which was, and not is, even he is the Eighth/ogdooV <3590>, and is of the Seven, and goeth into perdition {Levi is listed 8th in the order of Tribes Revelation]

Gene 29:34 And she becomes pregnant further and is giving birth a son.
And she is saying, "now the-once my man will be obligated to me, that I have borne him three sons." Therefore he called his name Leviy


The tribe of Levi are the priests. The Levi-athan was made by our Father to "play" in the sea, in humanity. And play they do. There are good and bad priests of Levi that feed us meat while in the wilderness.
Psalms 104:25-26 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts. There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom Thou hast made to play therein.

74:14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and He shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
He will "punish" leviathan but He shall "slay" the dragon.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The tribe of Levi are the priests. The Levi-athan was made by our Father to "play" in the sea, in humanity. And play they do. There are good and bad priests of Levi that feed us meat while in the wilderness.

Psalms 104:25-26 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts. There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom Thou hast made to play therein.

74:14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and He shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
He will "punish" leviathan but He shall "slay" the dragon.
Ahhh yes!!! I forgot about that.

Excellent quotes dear friend! :thumbsup:

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I am saying to ye, that shall be being taken-away from Ye the Kingdom of the God, and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

Reve 12:7 And became battle in the heaven, the Michael and the messengers of him battle against the dragon and the dragon battles and the messengers of him [Daniel 12]
8 and not he is strong, *neither place was found of them still in the Heaven.
 
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1whirlwind

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Lamb...what do you do with these?

1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

genealogies
1) a genealogy, a record of descent or lineage

Tts 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Wouldnt that be knowing Christ after the flesh whereas we are told not to know any man after the flesh, even Christ himself?

Even as Paul speaks of being of the tribe of Benjimen and that pertained to the flesh wherin he put no confidence in?


We would have to ask....are the geneaologies written in the Bible foolish? They were written for a reason so to me the foolish and endless tag doesn't apply to them. I'm not sure what genealogies they do apply to but Bullinger wrote....Geneologies - "Referring to the list of emanations of aeons according to the Gnostics." I have no clue what those were but maybe they're the foolish ones???
 
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Fireinfolding

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Whirlwind do you see any similiarities in these?
Psalms 104:25-26 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts. There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom Thou hast made to play therein.

James 3:4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.


James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

Job 41:1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?

2Thes 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

And yet the tongue is considered a WORLD of iniquity

He made leviathan to play therein...

1) to laugh, play, mock
a) (Qal)
1) to laugh (usually in contempt or derision)
2) to sport, play
b) (Piel)
1) to make sport
2) to jest
3) to play (including instrumental music, singing, dancing)
c) (Hiphil) to laugh mockingly

Which also appears here as well ("draw out" the tongue is there too)


Isaiah 57:4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,

 
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Hbr. 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So, why doesn't the author of Hebrews say our Lord sprang out of Levi? Sorry, but there was no mixing of Levi with Judah/Benjamin. They traced His lineage you know. Nothing about Levi.

:confused:
The tribe of Levi was seperated to be a Pristhood for all of the OC Hebrew Israelites

But then came the split after Solomon and the tribe of Levi was joined to the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
You need to study more on the the 12 Tribes me thinks :)

Reve 5:5 And one out of the elders saying to me "no be lamenting! behold! the Lion/lewn <3023> conquers, the one out of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, to open-up the scroll and the seven seals of it".
[Hosea 13:8/Reve 13:2]

We're both quoting the same scriptures that Christ was of the tribe of Judah, not Levi, not Benjamin.

So, what do you mean "Levi was joined to the tribes of Judah and Benjamin"?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by 1whirlwind The tribe of Levi are the priests. The Levi-athan was made by our Father to "play" in the sea, in humanity. And play they do. There are good and bad priests of Levi that feed us meat while in the wilderness.
I thought I had a study on something similar concerning Pharaoh and Egypt and the Dragon...

Rotherham) Ezekiel 29:3 Speak, and thou shalt say-- Thus, saith My Lord Yahweh Behold me! against thee O Pharaoh king of Egypt, The great Dragon/08577 tanniyn that lieth along in the midst of his rivers: Who saith-- My river is, mine own, Since I myself made it me!

Notice both Dragon and Egypt are mentioned in Revelation....

Reve 12:3 And was seen another Sign in the Heaven, and Behold! A great fiery red Dragon having heads, seven, and horns, ten, and upon the heads of him seven diadems.

Revelation 11:8 and the dead-bodies/corpses of them upon the broadplace of the City, the Great, which is being called spiritually Sodom/n and Egypt/f where even/also the Lord of them was crucified.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Another view of the 5 brothers could be of the Priest and the sect of the Sadducees...neither of which believe in a resurrection of the dead, whereas the Pharisees did.

What I find interesting is in John 12:10, it was the Chief Priests that tried to kill Lazarus, since he was proof that Jesus had the power to raise the dead back to life.

Luke 16:31 Saying yet to him "if Moses and the Prophets not they are hearing, neither if ever anyone out of dead-ones may be resurrecting/anasth <450> (5632), they shall be being persuaded". [anasth <450> used in Mark 9:9]

John 12:10 Counsel yet the Chief-Priests that also the Lazarus they may be killing.

Acts 23:7 This yet of him saying, there became a dissension of the Pharisees and Sadducees; and is split the throng.
8 For Sadducees say there is no resurrection, nor messenger, nor spirit, whereas Pharisees confess them both.
 
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Fireinfolding

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We would have to ask....are the geneaologies written in the Bible foolish? They were written for a reason so to me the foolish and endless tag doesn't apply to them. I'm not sure what genealogies they do apply to but Bullinger wrote....Geneologies - "Referring to the list of emanations of aeons according to the Gnostics." I have no clue what those were but maybe they're the foolish ones???

No Whirlwind they arent foolish but maybe he is indicating that following these now when we are not to know even Christ by anymore is something that was useful at one time. Otherwise Paul would have boasted in the fact he was of the tribe of Benjimin rather then count that as dung, see what I mean?

For instance we know Christ is come in the flesh that he was manifest for us but even though (he says) we HAVE known Christ after the flesh we HENCEFORTH know him NO MORE after the flesh. The flesh is part of the lineage Paul counted for nothing, and as dung.

Sorta like things that were once imposed are not any longer when it come to "carnal" ordinances perhaps....Knowing Christ after the flesh is something they once did but are told "henceforth" we are not to know him by the flesh.

He included it in there for a reason, so perhaps things in scripture can be cut from a different angle then by genealogies of the flesh descent because folks really cant follow them now (given marraiges, inter-racial marriages, moving abroad etc) right?
 
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No Whirlwind they arent foolish but maybe he is indicating that following these now when we are not to know even Christ by anymore is something that was useful at one time. Otherwise Paul would have boasted in the fact he was of the tribe of Benjimin rather then count that as dung, see what I mean?

For instance we know Christ is come in the flesh that he was manifest for us but even though (he says) we HAVE known Christ after the flesh we HENCEFORTH know him NO MORE after the flesh. The flesh is part of the lineage Paul counted for nothing, and as dung.

Sorta like things that were once imposed are not any longer when it come to "carnal" ordinances perhaps....Knowing Christ after the flesh is something they once did but are told "henceforth" we are not to know him by the flesh.

He included it in there for a reason, so perhaps things in scripture can be cut from a different angle then by genealogies of the flesh descent because folks really cant follow them now (given marraiges, inter-racial marriages, moving abroad etc) right?

Well, they could back then; and that's the point. Levi was separate from Judah. Christ was of Judah, not Levi, as both LLOJ and I have quoted, though he seems to disagree.

The reason is to establish the Melchizedek priesthood, not prolong the Levitical one, which is what would happen had the two or three tribes of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin not been kept separate.

LLOJ I doubt would argue for Sabbath keeping and diet regulations. But if the tribes were mixed, then this scripture no longer applies:

Hbr. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Levi and Judah weren't mingled. The priesthood changed from Levi to Melchizedek, else let's gather on Sabbath and change our diets for righteousness sake. Or agree they weren't mingled long ago.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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except for occasions of Spirit moved enthusiasm for it.
Just offering him a diet Coke on a Saturday might start him thinking about it.
I prefer Pepsi :thumbsup:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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This is the 'commentary' of one man, with this on his page

They are also not affiliated with any Messianic organization

"non-aligned messianic congregation"

Please stop trying to find anyway you can to cast dispersions against Messianics or Jews. One who does this does not follow the G-d of Israel.

Again, slanderous words against those Yeshua called his brethren.
:confused:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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No Whirlwind they arent foolish but maybe he is indicating that following these now when we are not to know even Christ by anymore is something that was useful at one time. Otherwise Paul would have boasted in the fact he was of the tribe of Benjimin rather then count that as dung, see what I mean?

For instance we know Christ is come in the flesh that he was manifest for us but even though (he says) we HAVE known Christ after the flesh we HENCEFORTH know him NO MORE after the flesh. The flesh is part of the lineage Paul counted for nothing, and as dung.

Sorta like things that were once imposed are not any longer when it come to "carnal" ordinances perhaps....Knowing Christ after the flesh is something they once did but are told "henceforth" we are not to know him by the flesh.
Great post. :wave:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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We're "The Slander Brothers". We desreve crucifixtion.
Subtext:;)
We may deserve it, but I would rather not be crucified :D

Matt 23:34 "Because of this behold! I am commissioning toward ye Prophets and Wise-ones and Scribes.
Out of them ye shall be killing/apokteneite <615> (5692) and ye shall be crucifying.
And out of them ye shall be scourging in the Synagogues of ye and ye shall be persecuting/persuing from city into city"
[Matt 24:9]
 
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