Death: a state of sleep untill Jesus comes

Elder 111

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If you cannot be persuaded of the historicity of Ecclesiastes 9:5, which I have laid plainly before your eyes, I doubt I could convince you of anything.
Lazarus, have you forgotten Lazarus and Dives (Luke 16:20-31)? But I've said too much, unless you admit I can possibly be right, I will say no more.

Fare well.
Do not say any more. The need to believe there is no sleep in death until Jesus come is important in the plan of satan. With this in his armor he can have peolple taking advice from his fallen angels who impersonate the dead. If God said to have nothing to do with it, as I have shown in the situation with Saul and Samuel, It certainly can not be of God. You take it keep it and I will stick with God.
 
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PerrySB

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Wow this is funny, I was raised Seventh Day Adventist and they taught the same thing and it makes no sense at all. Paul realized that being separate from the physical body meant that he would be reunited with Jesus and he wouldn’t need to wait for the second coming.
Now if you want a real eye opener do a little research into near death experiences and try real hard to do it with an open mind. Don’t pick and chose various scriptures to support your particular dogma, take a look at the whole package. Remember Paul was taken into heaven, he didn’t know if it was in the Spirit or physical and this is well supported by hundreds of near death experiences many when the brain was flat line.
We Christians do not have all the answers, we have a lot of different beliefs, assumptions, hopes, and a lot of faith, but we don’t even have a complete cannon and I think if most theologians were hones they would admit it.
 
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Elder 111

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Wow this is funny, I was raised Seventh Day Adventist and they taught the same thing and it makes no sense at all. Paul realized that being separate from the physical body meant that he would be reunited with Jesus and he wouldn’t need to wait for the second coming.
Now if you want a real eye opener do a little research into near death experiences and try real hard to do it with an open mind. Don’t pick and chose various scriptures to support your particular dogma, take a look at the whole package. Remember Paul was taken into heaven, he didn’t know if it was in the Spirit or physical and this is well supported by hundreds of near death experiences many when the brain was flat line.
We Christians do not have all the answers, we have a lot of different beliefs, assumptions, hopes, and a lot of faith, but we don’t even have a complete cannon and I think if most theologians were hones they would admit it.
Near death is not death. What happens in the brain does not relate to eternal matters
 
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PerrySB

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Near death is not death. What happens in the brain does not relate to eternal matters

I hate to say it in this manner but your statement only shows you lack of knowledge on the subject. When the brain is flat line there is no brain function, anotherwords you are truly dead.
Explain the well documented out of body experiences people have had, there are hundreds of them and well confirmed. It is very easy to explain something away that you haven't researched. What I'm so impressed by in this research is that it only confirms so much of what the Bible says and at death we will meet Jesus and that alone is such a wonderful confirmation, at least to me.
 
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Elder 111

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I hate to say it in this manner but your statement only shows you lack of knowledge on the subject. When the brain is flat line there is no brain function, anotherwords you are truly dead.
Explain the well documented out of body experiences people have had, there are hundreds of them and well confirmed. It is very easy to explain something away that you haven't researched. What I'm so impressed by in this research is that it only confirms so much of what the Bible says and at death we will meet Jesus and that alone is such a wonderful confirmation, at least to me.
What part of the bible does it confirm? The bible does not say that we meet Jesus at death for certain.
 
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Elder 111

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I hate to say it in this manner but your statement only shows you lack of knowledge on the subject. When the brain is flat line there is no brain function, anotherwords you are truly dead.
Explain the well documented out of body experiences people have had, there are hundreds of them and well confirmed. It is very easy to explain something away that you haven't researched. What I'm so impressed by in this research is that it only confirms so much of what the Bible says and at death we will meet Jesus and that alone is such a wonderful confirmation, at least to me.
you have for gooten or do not know that Eph. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Plaese study John 11. note carefull waht is said by Jesus and Martha who learnt at Jesus' feet. In verse 11 Jeus make it plain that death is a sleep. in verse 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Now study this chapter and let me know if you believe Jesus or not.
 
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Gareth

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When Jesus raised Lazarus after he had been dead four days, from where did Jesus bring Lazarus back from? Where had he been for those days? He could not of gone to heaven, for no-one had ascended to the heavens before Jesus did. In addition the OT states we are conscious of nothing when we die (see Ecc.9:5,6).
 
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PerrySB

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Come on you know as well as anyone you can go through the Bible and pick out your favorite verses and support just about any kind of ideology you want. Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” I could go on but what is the point, we all have our favorite dogma we cling to.
You must remember our Bible is what the first church wanted to give us. That first church became the Catholic church and they really screwed things up during the dark ages. The persecuted the Gnostic Christians and murdered them. Are you aware they almost left the book of John and Revelations out of the Bible. You don’t think Constantine had a little effect on what was put into the original cannon. Wake up the dead sea scrolls and the finding of the original Gnostic writings in 1945 shed some new light on what we thought was the complete cannon.
Using passages such as Eph 6 to imply one is being led astray by demonic influence is just trying to use the Bible as a tool of manipulation, and that is so wrong. Do I wish to believe Jesus, I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t. The Holy Spirit has a wonderful way of leading us if we will just allow him to and not get caught up in our presuppositions.
With that I will say I love our Bible and the wisdom God has given us through it, however I refuse to use it as a tool to manipulate others, only seek out what the Holy Spirit wants me to gain from the study of it.
 
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PerrySB

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Are you saying scripture was manipulated to say that Yeshua called death sleep?

Obviously you didn’t get what I said. When you read a book you shouldn’t pick out individual sentences and attempt to distort it into something it really isn’t. If you value the author’s writings you read the entire book and learn what you can from it.

The Bible is a collection of writings, and letters written by many different people. Other than God writing the ten commandments on stone the remainder was written by human beings, normal everyday foul able humans. Moses gave us the Mosaic Law, he wasn’t a perfect man, he screwed up and ended up not being allowed into the promise land.

Paul was admittedly weak in the flesh because he confessed to his conflict with the flesh and the spirit, so here again he was just human with many of the human frailties that we all have. The Bible was put together three hundred years after Christ rose. You say Jesus said this or that, were you there, did you hear Him say it, of course not. There is so much evidence out today that disputes the dead know nothing or sleep until the resurrection, however so many closed minded people refuse to accept new evidence the happens to dispute their particular belief system.

I was raised SDA sent to their schools, fed Ellen White until I couldn’t stand it any more. Sent to their academy, meaning you are stuck their with their brain washing 24/7. It took me many years to get that junk out of my head and find what grace really means. I love God with all my heart but I detest legalism and all the junk that goes with it.
 
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Yab Yum

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Come on you know as well as anyone you can go through the Bible and pick out your favorite verses and support just about any kind of ideology you want. Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” I could go on but what is the point, we all have our favorite dogma we cling to.
You must remember our Bible is what the first church wanted to give us. That first church became the Catholic church and they really screwed things up during the dark ages. The persecuted the Gnostic Christians and murdered them. Are you aware they almost left the book of John and Revelations out of the Bible. You don’t think Constantine had a little effect on what was put into the original cannon. Wake up the dead sea scrolls and the finding of the original Gnostic writings in 1945 shed some new light on what we thought was the complete cannon.
Using passages such as Eph 6 to imply one is being led astray by demonic influence is just trying to use the Bible as a tool of manipulation, and that is so wrong. Do I wish to believe Jesus, I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t. The Holy Spirit has a wonderful way of leading us if we will just allow him to and not get caught up in our presuppositions.
With that I will say I love our Bible and the wisdom God has given us through it, however I refuse to use it as a tool to manipulate others, only seek out what the Holy Spirit wants me to gain from the study of it.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

COMMA.

:p
 
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PerrySB

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I find it interesting that many Christians can’t understand the difference between the physical body and the spirit. We are spiritual being living in a physical body, that is pretty evident in scripture. Sleep refers to the physical body not our spirit. At death it is obvious that our spirit leaves the body and returns to the Lord. When Paul was caught up into heaven, he stated he didn’t know if he was in the spirit or the body. I assume this is when he was stoned and left for dead. Paul fully understood the difference and he referenced it.

All one needs to study is the experiences of those who have died, and I mean died and then were returned to their physical bodies. One thing for sure none came back atheist although a few were prior to their encounter with Christ. We are not talking about one or two experiences but hundreds of them.

I’m not in agreement with the testimony of some of those who have experienced death and then returned but when you look at the experiences you see a commonality with each of them.

Taking a few statement in the Bible and building a theology on them seems pretty dangerous to me. We are free to believe as we wish, as long as that belief doesn’t distort who Jesus is, the Son of God and our messiah. I think if we focus on his commandments to love God with all our hearts and to love our neighbors then most of the rest is just commentary.
 
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visionary

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Any study on the subject of sleep aka dead... can be found throughout the scriptures...

It has been recorded on the Kings...

1 Kings 2:10
So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

1 Kings 11:43
And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kings 14:20
And the days which Jeroboam reigned were two and twenty years: and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kings 14:31
And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kings 15:8
And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kings 15:24
And Asa slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoshaphat his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kings 16:6
So Baasha slept with his fathers, and was buried in Tirzah: and Elah his son reigned in his stead.

1 Kings 16:28
So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead

1 Kings 19:5
And as he lay and slept under a juniper tree, behold, then an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat.

1 Kings 22:40
So Ahab slept with his fathers; and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kings 8:24
And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kings 10:35
And Jehu slept with his fathers: and they buried him in Samaria. And Jehoahaz his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kings 13:9
And Jehoahaz slept with his fathers; and they buried him in Samaria: and Joash his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kings 13:13
And Joash slept with his fathers; and Jeroboam sat upon his throne: and Joash was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel.

2 Kings 14:16
And Jehoash slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kings 14:22
He built Elath, and restored it to Judah, after that the king slept with his fathers.

2 Kings 14:29
And Jeroboam slept with his fathers, even with the kings of Israel; and Zachariah his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kings 15:7
So Azariah slept with his fathers; and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.

2 Kings 15:22
And Menahem slept with his fathers; and Pekahiah his son reigned in his stead.

ETC ETC ETC ETC ad nauseum... But you get the idea... they are all dead... it is always called sleep...
 
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PerrySB

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Wow, you do like the Old Testament. I don’t get why so many feel that they need to post scripture, we all have Bibles, we all can read them, and many of us have read it through many times. With that said why waste the space?

Sure the writers of the Bible in many instances referred to the dead as those asleep, I don’t question that it is obvious. It is also obvious they didn’t understand or comprehend the difference between body and spirit. You want to sleep until the second coming that is fine with me, I would prefer to be with the Lord and I think there is plenty of evidence to support my position. However my opinion or yours makes no difference regarding salvation so like I have said it is just commentary.

My issues are when someone wants to bring legalism into the salvation issue. You can’t earn, buy, or be good enough, we are all sinners saved by Gods wonderful grace. If you think those who put our current Bible together three hundred years after Christ walked the earth did so without error or misprint then I think you are fooling yourself, however that is just my opinion. Remember they had over three hundred writings and discarded most of them. Almost left out John and Revelations, then they decided to murder the Gnostic Christians because they wouldn’t join their club. Then came Luther and said hey guys I think we have screwed up a little bit, of course they wanted to burn him at the stake. Along come Calvin and now we have the Protestant Bible 1600 years after the Catholics put together the first cannon, but of course we left some of the original cannon out of the Protestant Bible. Then we came up with theologians to figure out what the Bible really was saying and now we have dozens of different denominations that all want to fight with each other over stupid issues that mean nothing in regards to salvation.

With that said have any of you considered why so many are turning away from Christianity? It breaks my heart to see so many rejecting salvations because of frustration with the church clubs.
 
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it'sme

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Wow, you do like the Old Testament. I don’t get why so many feel that they need to post scripture, we all have Bibles, we all can read them, and many of us have read it through many times. With that said why waste the space?
Actually what the bible says is more important than what we say. The reason is that the bible is Gods word, and has power, and is sharper than a two edged sword.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.


With that said have any of you considered why so many are turning away from Christianity? It breaks my heart to see so many rejecting salvations because of frustration with the church clubs.
The reason many are turning away fro the churches is that they have not represented God in the way he wants. There is pagan influences many of the churches of Christendom today. And people can see this from what Christendom teaches. And how hypocritical they have become.
The churches teach an after life , but the bible does not. The dead are just dead and is it called in the bible, as sleeping in death.

Gen. 3:19: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Eccl. 9:10: “All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [“the grave,” KJ, Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV], the place to which you are going.”

(Ecclesiastes 9:5-6) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.

So the dead are just dead.
 
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