Clothing oneself?

OttomanScribe

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As an orthodox Sunni Muslim, and a member of a Sufi order, I believe that the primary way to stay on the siratul-mustaqim (straight path) is to follow the way of the Messenger of God (sws). This is not limited to simple belief, but also extends to imitation in all aspects of action.

Put simply, why do I see few Christians dressing like their Prophet (as)? To love the Prophet (as) is to love the things of him, to clothe oneself in his attributes, one must clothe themselves like him.

Why do I see no Christian versions of me:
5891_250485615625_650850625_8351742.jpg
 

Hentenza

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Christianity is not a religion of works. We are saved by the grace of God through faith in the Son. Dressing a certain way will not lead to one being any more spiritual.

BTW- I'm fine with you dressing as you like and do not judge your appearance. I hope that you extend me the same courtesy.
 
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OttomanScribe

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Christianity is not a religion of works. We are saved by the grace of God through faith in the Son. Dressing a certain way will not lead to one being any more spiritual.
So one is not supposed to be like Jesus (as), only believe in him?

BTW- I'm fine with you dressing as you like and do not judge your appearance. I hope that you extend me the same courtesy.

Thank you, I find it amusing when I am judged by Christians on my dress, at to mock how I dress is to mock (to some extent) how Jesus (as) dressed. It is none of my business how you dress, unless you are a Muslim you are held to Christian law, not Muslim law.

I am aware that sometimes my bemusement can be mistaken for a judgemental or patronising tone, I apologise for this, it is not my intent :D
 
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Hentenza

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So one is not supposed to be like Jesus (as), only believe in him?

Sure, however, progressively becoming like Jesus is the result of faith in Him. One can not become what one doesn't believe in.

Thank you, I find it amusing when I am judged by Christians on my dress, at to mock how I dress is to mock (to some extent) how Jesus (as) dressed. It is none of my business how you dress, unless you are a Muslim you are held to Christian law, not Muslim law.
Yes, there are many that mock simply what they don't understand.

I am aware that sometimes my bemusement can be mistaken for a judgemental or patronising tone, I apologise for this, it is not my intent :D
As mine can be also. Not my intent either.:)
 
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Hentenza

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So in Christianity emulation is purely belief, without action? Or is it belief first, followed by emulation?

Action follows naturally from faith. Faith is not just belief in our Lord and Savior but also love for Him. Obedience results from that love.
 
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aiki

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As an orthodox Sunni Muslim, and a member of a Sufi order, I believe that the primary way to stay on the siratul-mustaqim (straight path) is to follow the way of the Messenger of God (sws). This is not limited to simple belief, but also extends to imitation in all aspects of action.

Put simply, why do I see few Christians dressing like their Prophet (as)? To love the Prophet (as) is to love the things of him, to clothe oneself in his attributes, one must clothe themselves like him.

Why do I see no Christian versions of me:

It is the state of one's heart that most concerns God, not how one dresses. One may appear on the outside to be "following the Messenger" while inwardly one's heart is not "following" at all. Often one's exterior is a disguise for one's true interior state. This is why God does not look on the outward appearance but on the heart.

Every Christian is clothed, not in earthly apparel, but in the very righteousness of Christ himself! No clothing I might wear is ever going to improve such spiritual raiment.

Peace.
 
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OttomanScribe

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It the state of one's heart that most concerns God, not how one dresses. One may appear on the outside to be "following the Messenger" while inwardly one's heart is not "following" at all. Often one's exterior is a disguise for one's true interior state. This is why God does not look on the outward appearance but on the heart.

All clothing, including our very bodies themselves, are a disguise for one's inner state. This does not however mean that one should go around naked lest one be mistaken for someone who has something other than skin beneath their clothes. Why do Priests and the like wear what they do?


Every Christian is clothed, not in earthly apparel, but in the very righteousness of Christ himself! No clothing I might wear is ever going to improve such spiritual raiment.

Every Christian? Without fail?
 
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OttomanScribe

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Yes. Christianity is spiritual. Clothing is....umm...material.

I refer rather to them being clothed in the righteousness of Christ....

Are all Christians definitely in such a state?

I wear the Turban because it is the 'crown of the Arabs', the head-wear of Angels, ancient priests and Prophets (as). I understand that my state is subservient to the latter though not necessarily the former. The clothing, material as it is, is scraps from the table of the Messenger (sws) but what scraps! Should not one be hungry for every point of emulation of their guide? Especially if one believes their guide is God in man's form! To dress as Jesus (as) surely is to dress in God's clothing according to logic?
 
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GreenMunchkin

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Why do I see no Christian versions of me:
5891_250485615625_650850625_8351742.jpg
It's perhaps very little to do with how you're dressed, but I wonder if you realise that you look desperately, desperately unhappy. Am sorry for that.

Christianity isn't legalistic - presumably your dress sense is an outward display of your worldview: it's plumage, letting the world around you know who you are and what you believe; it pleases your god. Christianity makes no such demands - we are to be known by our love. As for what it tells God about us, He sees our hearts, not what we wear. He doesn't command us to copy His clothes; He commands us to share His love.
 
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aiki

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All clothing, including our very bodies themselves, are a disguise for one's inner state. This does not however mean that one should go around naked lest one be mistaken for someone who has something other than skin beneath their clothes. Why do Priests and the like wear what they do?

The distinctive robes a priest wears are to distinguish his spiritual office as a priest.

Every Christian? Without fail?

Yes, every Christian is, at the moment they are saved, clothed in the righteousness of Christ. It is this "clothing in righteousness" that makes a person acceptable to God. Understand, though, that this righteousness is Christ's righteousness, which is imputed to the believer; it is not that the Christian suddenly is righteous in their actual conduct. Such righteous living develops out of the new life in Christ that salvation obtains.

Peace.
 
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zaksmummy

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Would it make me "a better christian" if I wore the clothes that Jesus wore? Personally I'd look a bit silly, Im a women, but if I were a man?

I would probably be wearing a long robe, and a Tallit, that is a cloak with knots on the end used during prayer. I would have a beard, curls at the side of my head and short hair. Would wearing these clothes and having my hair/beard like this help me to be a better christian?

Well actually, no they would not. That doesnt mean that I couldnt dress like the Master, just that he would prefer me to imitate some of his other attributes.

Jesus encourages us to imitate him in how he behaved, he said "Take my yoke [teaching] upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matt11v29.
 
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ampbelle3130

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the condition of my heart and the amount of Christ's love for me is not contingent upon what clothing i am wearing. if we could be saved by our clothing, our material posessions, and our deeds, we would have no reason for a savior. but Jesus came. He died to pay the ransom for the sins that seperate man from God.
to say that my clothing could more save me than the love of my Redeemer would not only state that my LORD died in vain; it would be an insult.
"i know that You died for me Jesus and that no matter what i am clothed in the Holy Spirit...but it's not good enough...i think i could better save myself by the clothing that i robe myself in..." ???

um. no.
once the Holy Spirit resides in me (and it does...) i am no more saved while i'm dressed from head to toe than when i am standing bare in the shower.

clothing = earthly.
Jesus' love = eternal. no exceptions.
 
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OttomanScribe

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It's perhaps very little to do with how you're dressed, but I wonder if you realise that you look desperately, desperately unhappy. Am sorry for that.

A Muslim should not seek elation, nor despair... the Muslim aims for a contentment with God that means that no matter what the situation, one can say 'Mash'Allah' (God willed it) and be not effected. Unfortunately for me I am more on the happy side of that balance, it can be very easy to forget that God has made some people the denizens of hell, and some the denizens of heaven. Neither I nor you know of which group we are, in that situation, one should well take care of taking too much joy in this dunya (realm of deception).

The dress sense is legalistic in that it confirms to the mandatory amount of modesty. However for me it is more about emulation. When I see my shadow I see not myself, I see those better than me and long to do better. It reminds me who I am, not just to myself, but to others, and keeps me calm and well mannered (insha'Allah, God willing).

The distinctive robes a priest wears are to distinguish his spiritual office as a priest.
Why are not all of you priests? What about priests causes a distinction to be made?

Yes, every Christian is, at the moment they are saved, clothed in the righteousness of Christ. It is this "clothing in righteousness" that makes a person acceptable to God. Understand, though, that this righteousness is Christ's righteousness, which is imputed to the believer; it is not that the Christian suddenly is righteous in their actual conduct. Such righteous living develops out of the new life in Christ that salvation obtains.

None is saved by their deeds, they are saved through the mercy of God, this is my understanding too... however would you consider the works of an individual somewhat of a reflection of their state? Is not, in many ways, believing simply a work of the soul?


Wa'alaykum (and upon you).
Would it make me "a better christian" if I wore the clothes that Jesus wore? Personally I'd look a bit silly, Im a women, but if I were a man?

Allahu Alim (God knows), I personally find that emulation is a step towards actualisation. Would one be worse off for doing thus? Is it not an easy thing?

In my community it certainly is. The beer bottles and abuse thrown at me from cars is little hardship compared to the struggle to awake at night for remembrance of God.. yet few do it, for few know its benefits. The former makes the latter easier.

The way Jesus dressed had very little to do with his actual character. Character is what counts, and that's what Jesus is concerned about.
How can one separate character from action? Action from form? Form from appearance?

Ampbelle, I do not argue that clothing equals salvation, rather that one must clothe oneself in garments that aid one's internal covering. The body is the shell of the Nafs (base soul), which is itself the shell of the Ruh (spirit).... there are veils between us and God, what is it that makes the veils that Christ chose to cover his body not those perfect for his followers?
 
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GreenMunchkin

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A Muslim should not seek elation, nor despair... the Muslim aims for a contentment with God that means that no matter what the situation, one can say 'Mash'Allah' (God willed it) and be not effected. Unfortunately for me I am more on the happy side of that balance, it can be very easy to forget that God has made some people the denizens of hell, and some the denizens of heaven. Neither I nor you know of which group we are, in that situation, one should well take care of taking too much joy in this dunya (realm of deception).
If only you knew the freedom of being in Christ. I, and all people, that have accepted His salvation are assured a place in heaven. We don't need to desperately scrabble around for a place, doing good deeds, wearing the right things, praying in the right direction enough times a day, only to still not know whether we've made the grade or not. What a fearful faith that would be. It sounds loud, and painful and empty. In Jesus there is peace, and restoration and joy in knowing that you are loved by the Lord. Why would your god demand you not be happy? We are told that His joy will be our strength; that we are to rejoice always. He, in turn, rejoices over us with singing.

We agree on the nature of this life, though. For the Christian, this isn't the reality we are to be attached to: we are here to do God's work; to be His hands. But this isn't our home.
The dress sense is legalistic in that it confirms to the mandatory amount of modesty. However for me it is more about emulation. When I see my shadow I see not myself, I see those better than me and long to do better. It reminds me who I am, not just to myself, but to others, and keeps me calm and well mannered (insha'Allah, God willing).
That's another difference between our faiths, Ottoman. You wilfully act calm and well mannered when you catch your shadow. The Christian is made new when the Spirit of God abides in us; more loving, more calm. Islam seems to demand a shell of goodness and piety with little beneath. Christianity starts deep inside, and works its way up.
 
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zaksmummy

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Allahu Alim (God knows), I personally find that emulation is a step towards actualisation. Would one be worse off for doing thus? Is it not an easy thing?

In my community it certainly is. The beer bottles and abuse thrown at me from cars is little hardship compared to the struggle to awake at night for remembrance of God.. yet few do it, for few know its benefits. The former makes the latter easier.


How can one separate character from action? Action from form? Form from appearance?

Ampbelle, I do not argue that clothing equals salvation, rather that one must clothe oneself in garments that aid one's internal covering. The body is the shell of the Nafs (base soul), which is itself the shell of the Ruh (spirit).... there are veils between us and God, what is it that makes the veils that Christ chose to cover his body not those perfect for his followers?

I know what you are getting at here, yes to emulate ones Master in all things may be good, but what Jesus calls us to emulate is his characteristics as a person, not what clothes he wore.

The only example of this I can give you is one of personal experience. I am a non-Jewish person, when God started to challange me about understanding Jesus' Jewishness and to worship him in a more Jewish/New Testament way, I tried very hard to find "the right" way to do this and the right utensils for the Feast Days that I thought I needed. It didnt happen, every time I tried to buy something I thought was "right" for the Sabbath for example God put a barrier there. I was walking round town one day, praying about this situation and God spoke to me and said "Catrin you are not Jewish, yes I want you to keep Sabbath, but you can do it in an English way, you dont need to get specific Jewish things to do it".

Then I understood, worshipping God in that way he chooses to be worshipped, ie from the heart, is more important than having the right cups and plates and stuff.

The point is I was getting carried away with the act of worshipping instead of focusing my mind on who I was worshipping. A lesson well learned.
 
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