Dominic Korozya

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I'm sure that I have heard from you that there is never a good reason to make things personal during these discussions. And if by chance I am mistaken about your stance on this matter, please consider this a request to leave the personal bits out of this.


:)

Hi Ran77, how art thou on this fine day?
 
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Dominic Korozya

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I am fine. This is a glorious day and I will be able to spend it with my loved ones. I hope your day is as good.


:)

The weather is okay today even though it has been terrible the last few weeks. I hope you are eating plenty of chocolate, wouldn't want to hear of you not celebrating this easter properly.
 
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Rescued One

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We cannot become Gods.... this is definately a fantasy of the human ego.

Hmm.

Is President Lorenzo Snow’s oft-repeated statement—“As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be”—accepted as official doctrine by the Church?

...It is clear that the teaching of President Lorenzo Snow is both acceptable and accepted doctrine in the Church today.

Gerald N. Lund, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Feb. 1982, p. 39–40


This concept of men becoming Gods was also taught as recently(at least) as 1993:

Joseph Smith declared: “[God] was once a man like us; yea, … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did. …

“Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory.”

R. Val Johnson, “The Purpose of Life,” Ensign, April 1993, p. 22

You know you are a child of God, a son or a daughter of a loving Father who has structured a glorious plan for the salvation and happiness of each of His children. You understand that you were in the presence of our Father in Heaven in premortal councils, where His plan was presented to all of His children. We accepted His plan. Jesus Christ was there, and He became the leading advocate for the plan—the objective of which is to provide all of God’s children the opportunity to come to earth; obtain a body; and, during our period of mortal probation, prove ourselves in faith, repentance, obedience, and enduring to the end. We accepted that we would one day stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and be judged. Those found worthy would be exalted and would dwell eternally in the presence of the Father and the Son, with eternal family relationships prevailing. All others would be assigned to kingdoms of lesser glory.
Robert C. Oaks, “Your Divine Heritage,” Ensign, April 2008, p. 46–50
 
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Genesis 1:27

27. καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον κατ' εἰκόνα θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς

εἰκών , h(, gen. όνος, acc. όνα, etc.: poet. and Ion. nom. εἰκώ is implied (though not found) in gen. A. “εἰκοῦς” E.Hel.77, acc. “εἰκώ” A.Th.559, E.Med.1162, Hdt.7.69 (but “εἰκόνα” 2.143, both εἰκόνα and εἰκώ in Pl.Ti. 37d), Maiist.15: acc. pl. “εἰκούς” E.Tr.1178, Ar.Nu.559: (Εἴκω, ἔοικα, ϝεικ-Inscr.Cypr.151 H.):—likeness, image, whether picture or statue, Hdt.2.130, 143, A.Th.559, etc.; “εἰ. γεγραμμένη” Plu.2.1117c; “εἰ. γραπτά” IG4.940.23, cf. 3.1330; of needlework, E.IT223 (anap.); bust, Luc.Alex.18; εἰ. βασιλικαί, = Lat. imagines imperatorum, Lib. Or.56.13: generally, “εἰ. τοῦ νοητοῦ θεὸς αἰσθητός” Pl.Ti.92c.
2. image in a mirror, E.Med.1162, Pl.R.402b.
3. personal description, PTeb.32.21 (ii B. C.), etc.
4. metaph., living image, representation, “εἰ. ζῶσα τοῦ Διός” OGI90.3 (Rosetta, ii B. C.); “τοῦ θεοῦ” 2 Ep.Cor.4.4.
II. semblance, phantom, E.HF1002; “οὐ γὰρ ἐκεῖνος τέθνηκεν, ἀλλ᾽ ἐγὼ ἡ εἰ. αὐτοῦ” Luc.DMort.16.1; imaginary form, Pl.R.588b; image in the mind, “εἰκοὺς πατρός” E.Tr.1178; “δοξῶν καὶ λόγων” Pl.Phlb. 39c, etc.; εἰκόνας σῆς ἀρετῆς thy virtue's counterparts, of children, Epigr.Gr.435.4; “περίβολον ἔχειν δεσμωτηρίου εἰκόνα” Pl.Cra.400c; “ἐν εἰκόνι βασιλείας” Hdn.7.9.10.
III. similitude, comparison, Ar.Nu. 559, Ra.906, Pl.Phd.87b, Men.80c, Men.536.1; “δι᾽ εἰκόνος λέγεσθαι” Pl.R.487e, cf. Arist.Rh.1407a11, Lib.Ep.8.1.
IV. pattern, archetype, “ποτὶ τὰν εἰκόνα [κόσμος] ἀπειργασμένος” Ti.Locr.99d.

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, εἰκών

The assertion that image must refer to a physical image is manifestly false.
 
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Dominic Korozya

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Genesis 1:27

27. καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον κατ' εἰκόνα θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς

εἰκών , h(, gen. όνος, acc. όνα, etc.: poet. and Ion. nom. εἰκώ is implied (though not found) in gen. A. “εἰκοῦς” E.Hel.77, acc. “εἰκώ” A.Th.559, E.Med.1162, Hdt.7.69 (but “εἰκόνα” 2.143, both εἰκόνα and εἰκώ in Pl.Ti. 37d), Maiist.15: acc. pl. “εἰκούς” E.Tr.1178, Ar.Nu.559: (Εἴκω, ἔοικα, ϝεικ-Inscr.Cypr.151 H.):—likeness, image, whether picture or statue, Hdt.2.130, 143, A.Th.559, etc.; “εἰ. γεγραμμένη” Plu.2.1117c; “εἰ. γραπτά” IG4.940.23, cf. 3.1330; of needlework, E.IT223 (anap.); bust, Luc.Alex.18; εἰ. βασιλικαί, = Lat. imagines imperatorum, Lib. Or.56.13: generally, “εἰ. τοῦ νοητοῦ θεὸς αἰσθητός” Pl.Ti.92c.
2. image in a mirror, E.Med.1162, Pl.R.402b.
3. personal description, PTeb.32.21 (ii B. C.), etc.
4. metaph., living image, representation, “εἰ. ζῶσα τοῦ Διός” OGI90.3 (Rosetta, ii B. C.); “τοῦ θεοῦ” 2 Ep.Cor.4.4.
II. semblance, phantom, E.HF1002; “οὐ γὰρ ἐκεῖνος τέθνηκεν, ἀλλ᾽ ἐγὼ ἡ εἰ. αὐτοῦ” Luc.DMort.16.1; imaginary form, Pl.R.588b; image in the mind, “εἰκοὺς πατρός” E.Tr.1178; “δοξῶν καὶ λόγων” Pl.Phlb. 39c, etc.; εἰκόνας σῆς ἀρετῆς thy virtue's counterparts, of children, Epigr.Gr.435.4; “περίβολον ἔχειν δεσμωτηρίου εἰκόνα” Pl.Cra.400c; “ἐν εἰκόνι βασιλείας” Hdn.7.9.10.
III. similitude, comparison, Ar.Nu. 559, Ra.906, Pl.Phd.87b, Men.80c, Men.536.1; “δι᾽ εἰκόνος λέγεσθαι” Pl.R.487e, cf. Arist.Rh.1407a11, Lib.Ep.8.1.
IV. pattern, archetype, “ποτὶ τὰν εἰκόνα [κόσμος] ἀπειργασμένος” Ti.Locr.99d.

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, εἰκών

The assertion that image must refer to a physical image is manifestly false.

That God has a physical form?
 
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Brennin

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Ruth 2:12
The LORD repay you for what you have done, and a full reward be given you by the LORD, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge!"

Psalm 36:7
How precious is your steadfast love, O God!The children of mankind take refuge in the shadow of your wings.

Psalm 57:1
[ Let Your Glory Be over All the Earth ] To the choirmaster: according to Do Not Destroy. A Miktam of David, when he fled from Saul, in the cave. Be merciful to me, O God, be merciful to me,for in you my soul takes refuge;in the shadow of your wings I will take refuge, till the storms of destruction pass by.

Using Mormon "exegesis," I am forced to conclude that God is, in fact, a big bird.
 
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Dominic Korozya

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Is President Lorenzo Snow’s oft-repeated statement—“As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be”—accepted as official doctrine by the Church?

...It is clear that the teaching of President Lorenzo Snow is both acceptable and accepted doctrine in the Church today.
Gerald N. Lund, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Feb. 1982, p. 39–40


This concept of men becoming Gods was also taught as recently(at least) as 1993:

Joseph Smith declared: “[God] was once a man like us; yea, … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did. …

“Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory.”
R. Val Johnson, “The Purpose of Life,” Ensign, April 1993, p. 22

You know you are a child of God, a son or a daughter of a loving Father who has structured a glorious plan for the salvation and happiness of each of His children. You understand that you were in the presence of our Father in Heaven in premortal councils, where His plan was presented to all of His children. We accepted His plan. Jesus Christ was there, and He became the leading advocate for the plan—the objective of which is to provide all of God’s children the opportunity to come to earth; obtain a body; and, during our period of mortal probation, prove ourselves in faith, repentance, obedience, and enduring to the end. We accepted that we would one day stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and be judged. Those found worthy would be exalted and would dwell eternally in the presence of the Father and the Son, with eternal family relationships prevailing. All others would be assigned to kingdoms of lesser glory.
Robert C. Oaks, “Your Divine Heritage,” Ensign, April 2008, p. 46–50

I will not accept the authority of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I do not trust that they can forward divine word of God.
 
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Dominic Korozya

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Ruth 2:12
The LORD repay you for what you have done, and a full reward be given you by the LORD, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge!"

Psalm 36:7
How precious is your steadfast love, O God!The children of mankind take refuge in the shadow of your wings.

Psalm 57:1
[ Let Your Glory Be over All the Earth ] To the choirmaster: according to Do Not Destroy. A Miktam of David, when he fled from Saul, in the cave. Be merciful to me, O God, be merciful to me,for in you my soul takes refuge;in the shadow of your wings I will take refuge, till the storms of destruction pass by.

Using Mormon "exegesis," I am forced to conclude that God is, in fact, a big bird.

^_^
 
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Dominic Korozya

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JeffShott

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I will not accept the authority of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I do not trust that they can forward divine word of God.

Is it safe to assume that you are recovering from the exotic Mormonism trip you have been on; and, that you are returning to Catholicism?

There might be a happy medium for you. Perhaps a denomination of Protestantism?

The doctrine of the LDS church is very easily defeated by biblical scripture. It is hard for a mormon to explain why they can just ignore what the bible says. It's interesting.

I don't know about you, Dominic, but for me: the second you start ignoring the Bible, is the second you loose credibility, in my eyes.
 
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Dominic Korozya

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Is it safe to assume that you are recovering from the exotic Mormonism trip you have been on; and, that you are returning to Catholicism?

No comment.

There might be a happy medium for you. Perhaps a denomination of Protestantism?

How dare you! Marin Luther can just..........

I don't know about you, Dominic, but for me: the second you start ignoring the Bible, is the second you loose credibility, in my eyes.

Well.....

"in the beginning was the word"

...Jesus was the word, I think it is safe to say that we should not deny the "word".
 
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JeffShott

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Dominic Korozya

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Oh, um... Apologies. :o



.... Understood.


It's okay.... I am awaiting a response still on the issue about God being a man once.

I got an infraction on a mormon website... because I insulted their "modern day apostels". Whatever that is...
 
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JeffShott

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It's okay.... I am awaiting a response still on the issue about God being a man once.

Not to mention the whole "elaphants, among other things, being in the Book of Mormon's North America that weren't actually present" issue.

(Wow, that sentence is a pain in the butt to read)

I got an infraction on a mormon website... because I insulted their "modern day apostels". Whatever that is...

What did you say, lol?
 
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It's okay.... I am awaiting a response still on the issue about God being a man once.

I got an infraction on a mormon website... because I insulted their "modern day apostels". Whatever that is...


Gordon B. Hinckley, perhaps? He caused quite a stir when he said in Time magazine and on national television that the LDS church no longer "emphasizes" that time-honored couplet of Lorenzo Snow's, namely, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." It is still doctrine, all right (doctrine being eternal, you know), but the church doesn't teach it openly as much any more, so it's getting to the point where there are many members who aren't even aware that it IS doctrine.
Maybe it's a deliberate effort on the part of church leadership, in the hope that in time it will just quietly disappear and no longer be a source of embarrassment and/or contention for the church.
 
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Dominic Korozya

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Gordon B. Hinckley, perhaps? He caused quite a stir when he said in Time magazine and on national television that the LDS church no longer "emphasizes" that time-honored couplet of Lorenzo Snow's, namely, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." It is still doctrine, all right (doctrine being eternal, you know), but the church doesn't teach it openly as much any more, so it's getting to the point where there are many members who aren't even aware that it IS doctrine.

Maybe it's a deliberate effort on the part or church leadership, in the hope that in time it will just quietly disappear and no longer be a source of embarrassment and/or contention for the church.

That could be true, maybe they are trying to forget it.

Not to mention the whole "elaphants, among other things, being in the Book of Mormon's North America that weren't actually present" issue.

(Wow, that sentence is a pain in the butt to read)

I guess I shouldn't even bother asking them about that one.

What did you say, lol?

Heh heh... wouldn't you like to know.... ^_^

They said that their "modern day apostels" don't bother arguing about the Catholic teachiong of transubstantiation. They said that they don't bother debating it because the Catholic Church only bases it on a single biblical account of Jesus saying "this is my body".

I told them, that their apostels obviously have no understanding of the old Testament, since they seem to think this Catholic teaching is only based on the gospel. It is soooooo much more than that!!!!!!!!

Anyway, the moderator got stroppy and gave me an infraction for insulting their church leaders.
 
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Heh heh... wouldn't you like to know.... ^_^

They said that their "modern day apostels" don't bother arguing about the Catholic teachiong of transubstantiation. They said that they don't bother debating it because the Catholic Church only bases it on a single biblical account of Jesus saying "this is my body".

I told them, that their apostels obviously have no understanding of the old Testament, since they seem to think this Catholic teaching is only based on the gospel. It is soooooo much more than that!!!!!!!!

Anyway, the moderator got stroppy and gave me an infraction for insulting their church leaders.

Haha, very ironic, seeing as how they base heretical doctrine on single extra-biblical accounts.
 
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