The Earth is Old: a message to my fellow Christians

Orogeny · Mar 15, 2010

Agonaces of Susa said:
And it has been said by some that The Watchers hail from a planet Serpo in the Zeta Reticuli system.

It has also been said by some (namely the Kool-Aid Man) that peppermint-flavoured ninja stars fly out my bum at light speed and jet into space, eventually coming into orbit around saturn, where they morph into giant platinum copies of Dr. Suess's One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish and compose the large rings we see around the planet. Also, I heard that saturn's not actually a gas giant, but is instead a hot chocolate giant with caramel swirls and that its moons are warm snickerdoodles!

CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?!?

Let's build a spaceship using blueprints from hinu holy books and fly there this weekend! But first we need to stop off by the cuddley blanket planet (Mars), then make a detour to the Teddy Bear Zone (Kuiper belt).

SkyWriting · Mar 15, 2010

Orogeny said:
Disclaimer: I have never illegally cultivated cannibus plants.

God seems to go easy on Stoners.
Or maybe they just take it better.

Orogeny · Mar 15, 2010

That's because He likes people who are chill, sharing, and caring, bro.

SkyWriting · Mar 16, 2010

CACTUSJACKmankin said:
which warp zone or did you derive that celestial knowledge from? Star Trek Battlestar Galactica? No No I know you got it from Doctor Who.

Seriously where does this come from? any facts to support your speculation?

He doesn't note the sources. I think he's making a case for all mythology as being accurate and true. An attempt to discredit himself, I believe. The phrase "known facts" is commonly used by a certain group of people who place their faith in majority opinion. Or at least what they think is majority opinion.

The phrase "known facts" is most often used in the phrase "Little known facts". Hardly a claim made by somebody who actually believes in mythological extraterrestrials. So I don't think he believes in what he is posting.

rstrats · Mar 19, 2010

Cabal,

re: "Empirical evidence is evidence for all that see it working from the same set of assumptions, not those that choose to believe in it."
　
Is there any implication in that comment that you think that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesnt exist, or that a certain proposition is or isnt true?

SkyWriting · Mar 20, 2010

Orogeny said:
It has also been said by some (namely the Kool-Aid Man) that peppermint-flavoured ninja stars fly out my bum at light speed and jet into space, eventually coming into orbit around saturn, where they morph into giant platinum copies of Dr. Suess's One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish and compose the large rings we see around the planet. Also, I heard that saturn's not actually a gas giant, but is instead a hot chocolate giant with caramel swirls and that its moons are warm snickerdoodles!

I think somebody caught that happening on this video.

SkyWriting · Mar 28, 2010

rstrats said:
Cabal,
re: "Empirical evidence is evidence for all that see it working from the same set of assumptions, not those that choose to believe in it."
　
Is there any implication in that comment that you think that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesn’t exist, or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true?

It's assumed that Scientists don't make the choice, and that the evidence makes the choice whether to "believe" in something or not.

It's a false assertion held by people who who choose to believe in what some "official" person has stated as "fact".
A science styled version of "American Idol".

rstrats · Mar 28, 2010

SkyWriting,

Is that a yes or a no?

CACTUSJACKmankin · Mar 28, 2010

SkyWriting said:
It's assumed that Scientists don't make the choice, and that the evidence makes the choice whether to "believe" in something or not.

It's a false assertion held by people who who choose to believe in what some "official" person has stated as "fact".
A science styled version of "American Idol".

You are either honestly following the evidence or you aren't. Although denialists theories such as creationism and ID portray themselves as alternative theories, they are almost universally grounded on a misunderstanding of the facts rather than a different interpretation.

Orogeny · Mar 28, 2010

SkyWriting said:
I think somebody caught that happening on this video.

NO! That is just a Jesus-hating pseudoscientific present-state hiker's version of what comes out my bum!

SkyWriting · Mar 28, 2010

CACTUSJACKmankin said:
You are either honestly following the evidence or you aren't. Although denialists theories such as creationism and ID portray themselves as alternative theories, they are almost universally grounded on a misunderstanding of the facts rather than a different interpretation.

I follow "the evidense". Show me "a strong piece of evidence" and I'll show you that you are more likely listening to the propagandist's voice over, rather than documentary of the facts.

My experience so far is that there is no evidence to follow.

SkyWriting · Mar 28, 2010

rstrats said:
SkyWriting,

Is that a yes or a no?

I can't speak for Cabal.
Only comment on your question.

SkyWriting · Mar 30, 2010

CACTUSJACKmankin said:
You are either honestly following the evidence or you aren't. Although denialists theories such as creationism and ID portray themselves as alternative theories, they are almost universally grounded on a misunderstanding of the facts rather than a different interpretation.

You are welcome to link to such information for me to follow.

rstrats · Apr 26, 2010

SkyWriting,

re: "I can’t speak for Cabal."

Then since Cabal hasn’t responded, I would ask you the same question: Do you think that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesn’t exist, or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true?

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2010

rstrats said:
SkyWriting,

re: "I cant speak for Cabal."

Then since Cabal hasnt responded, I would ask you the same question: Do you think that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesnt exist, or that a certain proposition is or isnt true?

Absolutely. This is a common practice in Democracy, Leadership, Mentoring, Parenthood, Science, Education, Sports, Military, and other social circles.

rstrats · Apr 26, 2010

SkyWriting,

re: "Absolutely."
　
Does that imply that YOU can also consciously CHOOSE to believe things?

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2010

Originally Posted by rstrats

"Then since Cabal hasnt responded, I would ask you the same question: Do you think that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesnt exist, or that a certain proposition is or isnt true?"

rstrats said:
SkyWriting,
Does that imply that YOU can also consciously CHOOSE to believe things?

I guess I must restate my comment for the hard of hearing:

Absolutely, yes indeedy, you betcha, without a doubt. This is a common practice in Democracy, Leadership, Mentoring, Parenthood, Science, Education, Sports, Military, and other social circles.

rstrats · Apr 26, 2010

SkyWriting,

re: "I guess I must restate my comment for the hard of hearing:"

Sorry, I didn’t have my speakers turned on.
　

re: "Absolutely, yes indeedy, you betcha, without a doubt."

Perhaps you can help me, then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. If you think that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?

Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron." So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

sandwiches · Apr 26, 2010

rstrats said:
SkyWriting,

re: "I guess I must restate my comment for the hard of hearing:"

Sorry, I didn’t have my speakers turned on.
　

re: "Absolutely, yes indeedy, you betcha, without a doubt."

Perhaps you can help me, then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. If you think that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?

Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron." So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

It's not that simple for most people and many times the change is subconscious and slow. However, despite your incredulity, reframing of ideas and changing beliefs to change one's behavior or thinking is very common as is one tool used in psychology to get people to stop smoking or to break them out of other addictions or mental issues. Read up on it a bit more as I don't know the specific methods for this. It is possible and it does happen. However, it definitely requires effort and, most importantly, willingness to change in the person.

sandwiches · Apr 26, 2010

To clarify, are you asking if it's possible for a person to change beliefs against what is evident? For instance, you believe your neighbor is a dinosaur despite the fact that he looks and acts like human.

The Earth is Old: a message to my fellow Christians

Trilobite me!

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Senior Member

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Scientist

Trilobite me!

The Librarian

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Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.

Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.

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