Is it ever God's will that any of His children be tormented by Satan?

Cl - 35.452 · Mar 26, 2010

KingZzub said:
God likes us to suffer?

You need to read a Bible, mate.

Try the book of Job, read about Jesus and of course life itself.

KingZzub · Mar 26, 2010

Job: that would be the guy who suffered because the devil attacked him, stole from him and made him sick. That would be the guy the Lord restored his captivity and healed him and made him wealthy and blessed him. Not sure why you think that Job shows that God likes us suffering.

Jesus: oh I know God was pleased with Jesus' suffering. But that is because it was substitutionary suffering. He became sick so I could be healed. He became sin so I could be become righteous. He became poor so I could be rich. He became shame so I could become glorious. He became rejected so I could be accepted. He died so I could live. Of course that pleased God - Jesus suffered so I don't have to.

Hold on - God sending His only Son to stop human suffering doesn't prove or show that God likes us suffering either.

So that leaves life itself. I enjoy life. I love my wife, I love my children, I love my church, I love my house, I love everything about my life. If mountains step in my way, I command them to move and they move. I am changed from glory to glory, I am blessed beyond the curse, I am blessed when I come in, I am blessed when I go out, I am blessed everywhere. How does this show God likes me suffering?

franky67 · Mar 26, 2010

Zundrah said:
Try the book of Job, read about Jesus and of course life itself.

I'm not Ben (king Zub) but he won't mind me answering.

We don't pattern our life after the book of Job, and
Jesus ?
Jesus' suffering is not a pattern for us to follow, there can only be one Lamb of God, but we pattern our life from His life. We are told we have the mind of Christ

Cl - 35.452 · Mar 26, 2010

I suppose life with God is easier for some people if they convince themselves that God hurts no one deliberately. That would be the dream. I guess it depends what has happened in your life.

franky67 · Mar 26, 2010

Zundrah said:
I suppose life with God is easier for some people if they convince themselves that God hurts no one deliberately. That would be the dream. I guess it depends what has happened in your life.

I am so sorry , but I detect some hurt in your posts, and I must tell you that God our Father loves you more than it's humanly possible for you to know.

Our God has described Himself as love, IOW, He is love, and He wants you to know that whatever you are going through, or have gone through, the hurt you have experienced is not from Him.

Read again the Gospel of John, The whole book is a description of the love of God.

1Corinthians 13 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Cl - 35.452 · Mar 26, 2010

franky67 said:
I am so sorry , but I detect some hurt in your posts, and I must tell you that God our Father loves you more than it's humanly possible for you to know.

Our God has described Himself as love, IOW, He is love, and He wants you to know that whatever you are going through, or have gone through, the hurt you have experienced is not from Him.

Read again the Gospel of John, The whole book is a description of the love of God.

1Corinthians 13 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I understand what you are saying but if I ever go one day without prayer God just sends an entire world of pain on me. If I ever go one day without praying the entire rosary, I can actually feel God cutting off from me. If I ever cannot explain something about my faith when to a friend when he or she questions me they all come down on me like an army, calling me a hypocrite. God does inflict pain on us, if for nothing else, he does it to bring us back. God pulls his spirit out of us if we do not submit and it feels like death. God can be cruel in his methods...

KingZzub · Mar 26, 2010

You have so missed God, Z.

God does not send a world of pain on us because we don't pray for one day. I am sitting here crying, because I want you to know how much God loves you and how much that love is not based on the slightest on what you do and do not do.

And if I care about you that much to want you to know the love of God and the mercy of God, then how many, many, many times more does God want you to know His love? He sent Jesus to pay the price for your many sins when you had never even prayed once! Now you pray regularly, how much more does He want to give you good gifts and abundance of grace and life.

I am going to upload some sermons on Sunday on the blood covenant and the mercy of God. When I do, I will post the link. Please please listen to them.

God is not cruel in His methods. Look at Jesus - He loved the rich young ruler, He loved Peter when Peter denied Him. He loved a wicked rotten city like Nineveh and sent Jonah there to preach grace to them. He loved the prostitutes, He loved Matthew the traitor, Matthew the sinner. He ate with wicked people. He desires MERCY, not SACRIFICE.

Cl - 35.452 · Mar 26, 2010

KingZzub said:
You have so missed God, Z.

God does not send a world of pain on us because we don't pray for one day. I am sitting here crying, because I want you to know how much God loves you and how much that love is not based on the slightest on what you do and do not do.

And if I care about you that much to want you to know the love of God and the mercy of God, then how many, many, many times more does God want you to know His love? He sent Jesus to pay the price for your many sins when you had never even prayed once! Now you pray regularly, how much more does He want to give you good gifts and abundance of grace and life.

I am going to upload some sermons on Sunday on the blood covenant and the mercy of God. When I do, I will post the link. Please please listen to them.

God is not cruel in His methods. Look at Jesus - He loved the rich young ruler, He loved Peter when Peter denied Him. He loved a wicked rotten city like Nineveh and sent Jonah there to preach grace to them. He loved the prostitutes, He loved Matthew the traitor, Matthew the sinner. He ate with wicked people. He desires MERCY, not SACRIFICE.

You say all of this and yet I will feel the same tomorrow as I did yesterday. Every morning will be the same. I will still wake up feeling grim and the sky will always seem darker than it is.

I know God loves me and I do love him also, but I also know that he keeps me down for some reason. I do not know the reason, but I am okay with that. The best way to deal with hurt is to just accept it and know overall that the Lord is in control. Worship is nothing without submission.

KingZzub · Mar 26, 2010

He is NOT the one keeping you down. As long as you believe that God is against you, then you are going to have dark skies.

If I thought God beat me up if I miss a devotional or that God was intentionally keeping me down, I would have dark skies too.

This is a lie of the devil that God is keeping you back, but believing it is keeping you back.

If you believe the Bible - that God is for us not against us, that God is the Father of lights and every good gift comes from Him, I assure you the clouds would disperse.

Cl - 35.452 · Mar 26, 2010

KingZzub said:
He is NOT the one keeping you down. As long as you believe that God is against you, then you are going to have dark skies.

If I thought God beat me up if I miss a devotional or that God was intentionally keeping me down, I would have dark skies too.

This is a lie of the devil that God is keeping you back, but believing it is keeping you back.

If you believe the Bible - that God is for us not against us, that God is the Father of lights and every good gift comes from Him, I assure you the clouds would disperse.

You could be right KZ, but how would I know? I am absolutely sure that there is definately something holding me back in life, but I have no idea what it is. I think it could be something that happened three years ago that I have never confessed.

franky67 · Mar 26, 2010

Zundrah said:
You could be right KZ, but how would I know? I am absolutely sure that there is definately something holding me back in life, but I have no idea what it is. I think it could be something that happened three years ago that I have never confessed.

Z, there is absolutely nothing you could have ever done that would be a barrier between you and your Father God, nothing.

Jesus has said, "Come to Me all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Try to see Jesus as He is, pure love from Him to you, He requires NOTHING from you except acceptance, run into His loving arms just like you would run into the loving arms of your father or mother.

Just get quiet and say to Him, "Father, show me who you are", and if you really want to know Him, He will reveal Himself to you.

I will be praying for you tonight,

Love, Franky

JimfromOhio · Mar 26, 2010

We tend to make our first priority the gaining of relief from our feelings of heartache or disappointment or frustration. This is a natural desire, and God has promised to give us grace sufficient for our trials and peace for our anxieties (2 Corinthians 12:9, Philippians 4:6-7). But just as Gods will is to take precedence over our will (Jesus Himself said, Yet not as I will, but as you will - Matthew 26:39), so Gods honor is to take precedence over our feelings. We honor God by choosing to trust Him when we dont understand what He is doing or why He has allowed some adverse circumstance to occur. As we seek Gods glory, we may be sure that He has purposed our good and that He will not be frustrated in fulfilling that purpose.

KingZzub · Mar 26, 2010

franky67 said:
Z, there is absolutely nothing you could have ever done that would be a barrier between you and your Father God, nothing.

Jesus has said, "Come to Me all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

Try to see Jesus as He is, pure love from Him to you, He requires NOTHING from you except acceptance, run into His loving arms just like you would run into the loving arms of your father or mother.

Just get quiet and say to Him, "Father, show me who you are", and if you really want to know Him, He will reveal Himself to you.

I will be praying for you tonight,

Love, Franky

The Bible says where two or three agree concerning anything, it is done. And right now I am agreeing with Frankie's prayer that you will know God as He is: a loving, merciful, tenderhearted, generous, kind Father.

He doesn't want you as a servant, but He wants to kill the fatted calf, put a robe on you, give you a ring, and love on you. He wants to party that you are calling to Him.

Whatever you did three years ago was already dealt with 2000 years ago by Jesus. The solution to your sin was provided before you even sinned.

I have divorcees in my church, people who have been prostitutes, people who have run with prostitutes, people who have beat people up for cash, ex-drug users, ex-fornicators, ex-adulterers, ex-wife beaters.

All of them have found peace and love and acceptance from a loving Father.

What is holding you back is nothing. It is only that you think something is holding you back. When you realize there is nothing holding you back, nothing will hold you back. It's like the baby elephants in the circus that they tie to a stake and they pull and cannot escape. When they are adults a tiny stake holds them because they never bother to pull free because past experiences taught them to just quit and not bother and they could never be free. You are a strong person, a child of the most High that is being held by a tiny stake. Break free and enjoy freedom, it is yours!

enoch son · Mar 26, 2010

What a bunch of let make a deal with God. Gee I hope I made the right deal.

Cl - 35.452 · Mar 26, 2010

enoch son said:
What a bunch of let make a deal with God. Gee I hope I made the right deal.

Hey, say what?

JimB · Mar 27, 2010

KingZzub said:
He is NOT the one keeping you down. As long as you believe that God is against you, then you are going to have dark skies.

If I thought God beat me up if I miss a devotional or that God was intentionally keeping me down, I would have dark skies too.

This is a lie of the devil that God is keeping you back, but believing it is keeping you back.

If you believe the Bible - that God is for us not against us, that God is the Father of lights and every good gift comes from Him, I assure you the clouds would disperse.

Let me tell you the real dark side and lie of the devil, KZ.

What you are inferring is the blind-sighted idea that what is good for me is only what I think is good for melike a problem-free life of comfort and ease, happiness and abundance, health and wealth, a bad theology that teaches people that their Heavenly Father is their Sugar Daddy in the Sky or Genie in the Bottle to make life happen for them the way they want it to happen. This is a me-centered, not Christ-centered, approach to Christianity, humanism in spades, creates God in mans image and thinks God exists only for my happiness. This kind of teaching does not prepare people for the inevitable problems that arise from life and such as is common to men much less the chastening of the Lord that are inevitable

The truth of scripture is our that, of course, God is for mebecause he loves mebut He loves me too much to let me stay the way I am, and if his love doesnt constrain me, as it should, to do/be better, then his discipline will. He disciplines me because he loves me:

6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives. 7It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. (Heb. 12)

And sometimes that discipline is painful and is designed to train (teach) me, not destroy (torment) me:

11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Heb. 12)

God is for me. His discipline, though painful sometimes, works for me, not against me.

For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory (2 Cor. 4.17).

God is more concerned about our eternal development than our immediate comfort and pleasures.

Does God discipline me (i.e., beat me up, I believe is the way you phrased it)? I hope so. Is it painful? Sure, sometimes. Does it teach me? Of course it does (if I haven't fallen victim to some preprogrammed doctrinal learning disability).

What you seem to be offering is an easy, painless, undisciplined (but nonexistent) path to gloryand you have a few isolated proof-texts wrenched from the Bible (with blinders to scriptures like the one above to balance them) to prove . Such a belief does not prepare people for the inevitable problems we all facesuch as is common to menand, therefore, when problems do come, as they will, people with a false view of life and god will crumble when it does. We have to endure hardness as a good soldier and learn how to be abased as well as how to abound. That is, if we want to be Gods children and not illegitimate childrenspiritual bas*ards.

~Jim

Mercy triumphs over judgment. ~James 2.13

probinson · Mar 27, 2010

JimB said:
and you have a few isolated proof-texts wrenched from the Bible (with blinders to scriptures like the one above to balance them) to prove .

This is amusing. You really ought to look back through this thread and look at the "few isolated" sciptures you've used (repeatedly). You might just see that you're doing the same thing.

But I doubt it, since those blinders you've got on obviously make it hard to see clearly.

JimB · Mar 27, 2010

probinson said:
This is amusing. You really ought to look back through this thread and look at the "few isolated" sciptures you've used (repeatedly). You might just see that you're doing the same thing.

But I doubt it, since those blinders you've got on obviously make it hard to see clearly.

A lot of scriptures have been quoted, f’r sure, but the ones I/others on this side of the issue have posted are meant to balance them. No prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation—no single scripture, or even group of scriptures, stands alone without taking into consideration every scripture related to the subject.

For instance, to quote John 14.14 (if you ask anything in my name, I will do it) without taking into consideration 1 John 5.14-15 (if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him). 1 John 5 balances John 14 and may tell us what it means to “ask in my name.”

ALL (A-L-L) scripture, the whole counsel of God, is given by inspiration, not just those isolated texts we prefer.

In addition, the OP question is slanted. God’s disciplines that sometimes is painful according to Hebrews 12.11, are not designed to “torment” us ... nor is it bad. In fact, godly sorrow that brings repentance is a good thing even though we might for a moment define that sorrow as being “torment.” It is just as wrong (and misguided) to call good “evil” as it is to call evil “good.”

~Jim

Mercy triumphs over judgment. ~James 2.13

JimfromOhio · Mar 27, 2010

JimB said:
A lot of scriptures have been quoted, fr sure, but the ones I/others on this side of the issue have posted are meant to balance them. No prophecy of scripture is of private interpretationno single scripture, or even group of scriptures, stands alone without taking into consideration every scripture related to the subject.

For instance, to quote John 14.14 (if you ask anything in my name, I will do it) without taking into consideration 1 John 5.14-15 (if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him). 1 John 5 balances John 14 and may tell us what it means to ask in my name.

ALL (A-L-L) scripture, the whole counsel of God, is given by inspiration, not just those isolated texts we prefer.

In addition, the OP question is slanted. Gods discipline that sometimes is painful according to Hebrews 12.11, are not designed to torment us ... nor is it bad. In fact, godly sorrow that brings repentance is a good thing even though we might for a moment define that sorrow as being torment. It is just as wrong (and misguided) to call good evil as it is to call evil good.

~Jim

Mercy triumphs over judgment. ~James 2.13

Trish1947 · Mar 27, 2010

How can we come up with the idea that the way things might be in our bodies,
or the way things are on the earth, or the way things are with society, that
Gods Kingdom has been established? We are to condened for the faith of the
Gospel, we are to proclaim, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it
is in Heaven. If we believe every one of these things that happen, has already been established by
Him on earth, then there would be nothing to look forward to in Heaven either. It would look exactly the same.
He didn't ask us to compare what happens on earth, as though it happens in Heaven.
But that is exactly what people do.

Is it ever God's will that any of His children be tormented by Satan?

forgive them Father for they know not what they do

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forgive them Father for they know not what they do

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forgive them Father for they know not what they do

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forgive them Father for they know not what they do

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forgive them Father for they know not what they do

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Life of Trials :)

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enoch son

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forgive them Father for they know not what they do

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