US General: Dutch Gay Soldiers Caused Sebrenica Massacre

Antigone

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BigBadWlf

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ChristianPilot

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On one hand the Dutch were responsible for protecting Srebrenica (Scene of a Bosnian-led massacre of thousands of Muslims in a UN protected zone).

On the other hand the situation doesn't have anything to do with any of the soldiers being gay.

I'm surprised to see a general saying stuff like this. Probably has to do with the recent debate over the "don't ask don't tell" issue.
 
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bigbadwilf

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Personally speaking, I think the fact that they were outnumbered by anything up to eight to one, outgunned and without the possibility of reinforcements arriving in time to make a difference might have been somewhat more decisive factors than the sexuality of some of the Dutch troops.
 
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Antigone

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Personally speaking, I think the fact that they were outnumbered by anything up to eight to one, outgunned and without the possibility of reinforcements arriving in time to make a difference might have been somewhat more decisive factors than the sexuality of some of the Dutch troops.

That's what I thought, but I'm not a NATO general, so what do I know?
 
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Mr. Ripley

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I read up on some of the controversy.

Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), chairman of the Armed Services Committee, asked, "Did the Dutch leaders tell you it was because there were gay soldiers there?"

"They included that as part of the problem," Sheehan said.


Sheehan said Gen. Henk van den Breemen, former Dutch defense chief of staff, had suggested to him that allowing gays to serve openly in the Netherlands' military had undermined its readiness.

But the Dutch Defense Ministry said that van den Breemen had never expressed such sentiments and that he considered them "absolute nonsense."

washingtonpost.com


He seems to be basing his argument on on the perception of a former Dutch defense chief, Breeman. The Dutch Defense Ministry says he had never expressed that sentiment before, but I'd like to hear from Breeman before assuming Sheehan is lying.

In any event, even if the comments originated from Breeman, they seem to be entirely without basis. The former general seems to be equating homosexuality in the military with weakening of military strength, with increased focus on peacekeeping rather than combat. If there is decreased military strength, I think it would be more apt to say the basis for decreased combat focus is liberalization, which pushes for more pacifist solutions.
 
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Antigone

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He seems to be basing his argument on on the perception of a former Dutch defense chief, Breeman. The Dutch Defense Ministry says he had never expressed that sentiment before, but I'd like to hear from Breeman before assuming Sheehan is lying.

Van den Breemen has stated that Sheehan's comments are "total nonsense." You can find that in various sources, including wikipedia and here at the WaPo.
 
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ACougar

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I wish it were just one religious leader... however there is no shortage of religious leaders in this country who enjoy scapegoating gays or any other group that doesn't conform to thier beliefs.

Gen. Sheehan just needs to be a bit more selective about where he drinks his hate flavored Kool-Aid.

Maybe this guy has been hanging out with Pat Robertson since his retirement.
 
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Mr. Ripley

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Van den Breemen has stated that Sheehan's comments are "total nonsense." You can find that in various sources, including wikipedia and here at the WaPo.

I'm not sure how to respond to that. I would ask, though: do you think because he is a European general, as opposed to an American general, that he has less of a propensity for prejudice and narrow-mindedness? Have you considered whether this might have something to do with PR? The rapidity and fervour of the response, as well as the bare mention of any possible origin for the comments, makes me somewhat distrustful.

I just find it hard to imagine someone would stand in front of congress unprompted, lay the blame for Sebrenica on homosexuals, and then lie and state the basis for his argument originated with a Dutch general's comments. He's so forthcoming and unashamed of his highly unpopular comments, it just seems unlikely that he would worry about the PR he would receive, seek a scapegoat, and lie about an exchange with a Dutch general.

The American general has nothing to lose, and he seems pretty unabashed by his comments. Whereas the Dutch might want to avoid scandal, and so might the Dutch general, especially when tolerance is so highly prized by Europeans.

Since there's no proof either way, and the Dutch general did deny he made any such comment, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. But that's not going to lessen my wariness about what might have really been said behind closed doors.
 
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