Let's say that they're hanging on for dear life on a cliff. You are the only person who will reach them in time to save their life. Would you save them as quickly as a straight person? Would you save them at all?
So, a Gay Person is in Grave Peril
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wanderingone
I'm not lost I'm just wandering
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Oh come on seriously?
How do you know their orientation.. is there a scarlet F on their head or something?
How do you know their orientation.. is there a scarlet F on their head or something?
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Let's just say you know. I know, this topic is really out their, but I'm genuinely curious as to what responses it will receive. Hopefully most will understand that all human life is fundamentally equally important.
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pgp_protector
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Save em as quickly as possible.
But...
If They're Christian, then they're ready to go to their reward right ?
But...
If They're Christian, then they're ready to go to their reward right ?
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daniel777
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i'm with tardis and death-star boy on all but everything. if i ever find myself in such a situation, the most ethical thing to do would would of course be to grab a shovel, or any sort of blunt object really, and beat the gay person over the cliff... after which i fly away on my broomstick happily and full of glee, feasting on the leftover human child i had for breakfast.
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Verv
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Hahaha, I am curious what part of Christian doctrine would even allow us to hesitate in such a situation?
It makes no sense that the answer would not be 'of course I would save them immediately.'
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Based on studies I've read, I would hypothesize that while most people would say no, in actuality they would take significantly longer to save a gay person than a straight one. This is especially true among religious people.
Diffusion of responsibility is a psychological theory that postulates that you are less likely to save someone from harm if there are other people who could possibly save them. The more people, the less likely.
The classic study that is set up is that a group of people are set up in seperate rooms, but communicate over intercoms. One person in the group (an associate) starts complaining of chest pains, and then for all intents and purposes has a heart attack. If each listener knows that there are 4 other people listening in, it will take them longer to respond with help than if there was only 1. It takes even longer if they each know that there are 8.
However, other studies have shown that if the victim has identified themselves as being part of an ingroup, reaction time decreases substantially, and the opposite if the victim has identified themselves as a part of an outgroup. Also, reaction time increases significantly from the norm if the victim is a member of an outgroup for which the rescuer has formed an affluent prejudice against (ie, they don't like them).
Obviously, what's important is that it takes a single person longer to come to the rescue of someone of an outgroup of which the rescuer has a prejudice against, than a neutral person.
There happens to be a very significant correlation between religiosity, and affluent negative prejudice toward homosexuals.
The hypothesis writes itself.
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Verv
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One major difference here:
We have someone on a cliff about to die, or it is known for a fact that they are in grave peril.
In the other one it is the issue of someone who is having chest pains.
Perhaps it is something like anxiety that is causing it? Who knows.
Furthermore, could we not also postulate that if a Christian fundamentalist was having chest pains and surrounded by homosexuals, they would also be slower to help them?
Or does some how, some way, being gay make them more inclined to defy the principles you have outlined here?
Most swords cut both ways, good sir.
Second: isn't it also true that most atheists are huge discriminators against homosexuals?
Historically, more legalized discrimination against gays has occurred in the 20th century by atheists than by Christians.
That is: Vietnam, China, North Korea, Laos, Cuba, the former USSR, etc.
The first societies to be this accepting of homosexuals in modern times are the ones of Christian background.
I guess we could have the debate:
Who would be more likely to help the gay?
A Christian from France or an atheist from China.
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It is a certain instinctive attitude which feels the things on which all men agree to be unspeakably important, and all the things in which they differ (such as mere brains) to be almost unspeakably unimportant. The nearest approach to it in our ordinary life would be the promptitude with which we should consider mere humanity in any circumstances of shock or death. We should say, after a somewhat disturbing discovery, There is a dead man under the sofa. We should not be likely to say, There is a dead man of considerable personal refinement under the sofa . . . . Nobody would say, There are the remains of a clear thinker in your back garden. Nobody would say, Unless you hurry up and stop him, a man with a very fine ear for music will have jumped off that cliff.
Chesterton, Heretics
Chesterton, Heretics
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Yeah, but: Given the evidence, I know how I would bet, and I would likely bet a fair amount. Knowing that someone is in trouble, rather than simply suspecting doesn't actually alter the effect itself. It may make them react sooner if they knew said person was in trouble, but not faster than it would take to get to a straight man.
Assuming said gay man was not also a Christian Fundamentalist? Yes, most likely. I am reasonably sure negative prejudices go the other way too.
No.
Maybe, but gays have no biblical obligation to love everyone, and I haven't met many who pretend to do so.
Not in anything I read.
Historically, maybe. It doesn't really matter now, does it? I read nothing in the question that suggests that the incident happens in the 1920's. Here and now there is a staggering correlation between negative affective prejudice against homosexuals and religiosity.
Actually, the ones with the most secular background. Finland, Sweden, Norway, Canada, U.K....all far more secular than the United States (the most Christian nation among the most advanced countries), and far more accepting. In the United States it also tends to be the secularists, not the Christians.
Actually, it seems that about 30% of Chinese disapprove of homosexuality, compared to about 60% of Americans. Seeing as our Frenchman is Christian, I'd say its about a draw.
In the United States do you think it would be the atheist, or the Christian?
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IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
sure. I'm not sure I'd take time to find out first anyway - lol. Not to mention, life is more important than religious differences or disagreement of practices.
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wanderingone
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You've obviously never met my cousin and his husband... the only way they can help you pick out clothes is if you're inclined towards the Grizzly Adams look (wait... do people still know who Grizzly Adams is?) But please help them if they're hanging off a cliff anyway.. they're pretty decent people and while they aren't into clothing they are foodies who can lead you to the best food and wine around.
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IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
hehehe. I knew the nicest gay man. He was this incredibly talented artist and I had only met him on the phone and internet until I went to his studio. Grizzly Adams is right. So much for presuming someone's appearance or talents by their sexual identity.
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WadeWilson
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I could not in good conscience allow someone to die in the manner that is proposed.
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BigBadWlf
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I suspect more than a few fundamentalists would hesitate before saving such a person
and a significant number would help gravity. And then there are a few who would grab hold of the person but demand they say that their sexual orientation has been changed before they save them and then add another ex-gay individual to that ever growing number of happy heterosexuals living among us
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