why doesn't god answer prayers to lift sinful behavior from a person?

squint said:

Anyone who doesn't believe that Satan is a separate entity than mankind MAKES JESUS talking to Himself AS SATAN in the desert.

To the opening post, the more LAW that is poured upon the heart, very often the STRONGER the desires to TRANSGRESS, no matter what you may 'really' want to do. This shows another OPERATION going on within that ALL people have and carry.

The best path is disassociation from those thoughts as BEING YOURS.

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Exactly right... Jesus was talking to himself as we all do we have have doubts and temptations... Don't you wonder how it is that "Satan"
can hang with God in Job, and hang with Jesus in the wilderness story? Are they good buds, just hanging out and chatting?

God is awful quick to destroy human beings (Sodom and Lot's wife for just two examples) but seems to love having Satan hang around and mix things up around here.

Maybe God and Satan are in it together... Satan causes the mess and God cleans up and collects all the offerings, and then they split the boodle.

No, my friends, my children, there is no satan other than in your hearts heads. YOU are the one that tempts yourself, YOU are the one that leads you astray... grow up and stop blaming invisible friends.

KCDAD said:

Exactly right... Jesus was talking to himself

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hmmm? Let's see? Jesus was SATAN...

Pardon me if I call you a scriptural idiot. I don't blame YOU of course, but SATAN. How's that?

as we all do we have have doubts and temptations... Don't you wonder how it is that "Satan"

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It surely IS. But that does not make Jesus 'the same as' Satan. Satan/devils/anti-Christ spirits are VERY real, even if you can't see them. They are the impetus behind every vile thought that enters your head, such as the above. I just don't see 'them' as you, if you're OK with that? Or would you prefer I see ONLY YOU as Satan? [my understanding won't allow that]

can hang with God in Job, and hang with Jesus in the wilderness story? Are they good buds, just hanging out and chatting?

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Oh, I don't doubt one little bit that Satan and his minions are Gods pathetic little sock puppets. But you do understand that God can make a turd and not be a turd, right?

God is awful quick to destroy human beings (Sodom and Lot's wife for just two examples) but seems to love having Satan hang around and mix things up around here.

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No doubt about that!

Maybe God and Satan are in it together... Satan causes the mess and God cleans up and collects all the offerings, and then they split the boodle.

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Nah, more like a temporal power currently being allowed to be deployed on HIS children to keep them from being SPOILED BRATS.

No, my friends, my children, there is no satan other than in your hearts heads. YOU are the one that tempts yourself, YOU are the one that leads you astray... grow up and stop blaming invisible friends.

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So says you. You are certainly welcome to take that seat for yourself. And I will simply see YOU as another sock puppet in a long chain of sock puppets. No offense to you as Gods child mind you.

enjoy!

s

KCDAD said:

Yes, the New Testament invented the being of Satan out of Greek mythology... why doesn't it appear in The Old Testament? Satan (in the NT is called adversary, The Holy Spirit; the advocate) Get it? DO you really think Jesus had a conversation with Satan? Jesus didn't banish, exorcise or destroy him right then and there? And Satan did not have any trouble walking right of to 1/3 of The Godhead and start tempting him?

Christianity would be a GREAT religion if the followers would just grow up and stop believing in fairy tales and comic book deities.

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You seem to be trying to reason with the age old debate of why God doesn't simply destroy Satan if he is such a nuisance? Simple; Satan still serves a purpose. (But that's a whole other subject)

And it's not that Satan could approach Jesus (1/3 of the Godhead) but it's that God allowed it for whatever purpose God intended. This purpose has also been debated, just check the forums.

BTW these are not comic book and fairy tale characters, this is where the comic book and fairy tales got their characters.

KCDAD said:

Exactly right... Jesus was talking to himself as we all do we have have doubts and temptations... Don't you wonder how it is that "Satan"
can hang with God in Job, and hang with Jesus in the wilderness story? Are they good buds, just hanging out and chatting?

God is awful quick to destroy human beings (Sodom and Lot's wife for just two examples) but seems to love having Satan hang around and mix things up around here.

Maybe God and Satan are in it together... Satan causes the mess and God cleans up and collects all the offerings, and then they split the boodle.

No, my friends, my children, there is no satan other than in your hearts heads. YOU are the one that tempts yourself, YOU are the one that leads you astray... grow up and stop blaming invisible friends.

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God uses Satan to achieve His purpose. To do this they must interact.

KCDAD said:

maybe maybe maybe, and maybe not

Either God is in control or he isn't. If prayer gets God to change things, then God isn't in charge.
In other words... God doesn't respond to prayer.

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So for you, prayer is more like a vending machine? Put your dollar's worth of work in, instantaneous results guaranteed?

I would call that magic, not prayer. Prayer doesn't "get God" to do anything. Prayer presupposes relationship, and isn't centered on one party exerting power over the other. Yes, there is that aspect at times, but it is so rare and only properly understood in the context of the other.

DonnyT said:

You seem to be trying to reason with the age old debate of why God doesn't simply destroy Satan if he is such a nuisance? Simple; Satan still serves a purpose. (But that's a whole other subject)

And it's not that Satan could approach Jesus (1/3 of the Godhead) but it's that God allowed it for whatever purpose God intended. This purpose has also been debated, just check the forums.

BTW these are not comic book and fairy tale characters, this is where the comic book and fairy tales got their characters.

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It isn't a whole other subject... it is THE subject. WHOSE purpose does Satan serve? GOD's? Evil is a part of God's purpose??? How can evil be a part of Good?

Evil makes no sense, and Satan even less. They can not coexist with God.

KCDAD said:

It isn't a whole other subject... it is THE subject. WHOSE purpose does Satan serve? GOD's? Evil is a part of God's purpose??? How can evil be a part of Good?

Evil makes no sense, and Satan even less. They can not coexist with God.

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Evil is needed to understand good; hence the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

DonnyT said:

Evil is needed to understand good; hence the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

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Evil and good are the same fruit. It just depends on who is eating it.

KCDAD said:

Evil and good are the same fruit. It just depends on who is eating it.

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That's only under the premise that evil pre-existed. If we assume that Eden was perfect (w/o evil) then that negates the "depends on who's eating it" factor. One cannot be good and know evil since that would make them evil.

DonnyT said:

That's only under the premise that evil pre-existed. If we assume that Eden was perfect (w/o evil) then that negates the "depends on who's eating it" factor. One cannot be good and know evil since that would make them evil.

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Well it wasn't perfect was it... there was a serpent... and forbidden fruit.

KCDAD said:

Well it wasn't perfect was it... there was a serpent... and forbidden fruit.

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Maybe it was perfect in that everything went as God foresaw.

DonnyT said:

Maybe it was perfect in that everything went as God foresaw.

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Maybe? Then why the flood? Why destroy Sodom and the Tower of Babel... why exile, and slavery for the Hebrews and Israel. Why suicide to atone for everything that was perfect?

KCDAD said:

Maybe? Then why the flood? Why destroy Sodom and the Tower of Babel... why exile, and slavery for the Hebrews and Israel. Why suicide to atone for everything that was perfect?

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There are many reasons provided in scripture in various forms of reasonings.

The single over riding factor that I know you don't believe, is that there are other powers being JUDGED in this present creation. What Gods Ultimate Purposes are in these various judgments are unknown in totality, but the ultimate result of GODS ALLOWANCE of these powers is A FAIR real time testing and then JUDGMENT. It would be one thing for God to simply think them through, but I might suppose when ONE Is Perfect and has AN ETERNITY to employ and the power to do ANYTHING, that that is part of what God gets to ENJOY doing.

We know this for example from text as to WHAT GOD LOVES:

Psalm 33:5
He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Psalm 37:28
For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

You could look at ANY of your examples above and cry "what is the point?!" Most of us have made the same pleas. There are in short OTHERR WAYS to view ALL THINGS and a lot of them that we cannot see.

In seeking to discover WHAT those things might mean to GOD, I may now view the FLOOD or S & G as quite a MERCIFUL ACT in reaping those people, GODS OFFSPRING, out from within this present wicked generation and taking them BACK to Himself, and leaving the DEVILS who were upon them temporarily homeless AS A PHYSICAL WARNING to those powers IF they get too out of hand. Do I believe God is burning all the homosexuals alive in fire from S & G? No. Those POWERS, any SINNING POWERS are of and from THE DEVIL, the powers of DARKNESS into which He has temporarily deposited His Offspring, whom ALL MANKIND ARE.

Here are the powers being JUDGED in mankind:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And HERE is how those POWERS are serving Gods Divine Intentions:

Romans 11:32
For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

enjoy!

squint

squint said:

There are many reasons provided in scripture in various forms of reasonings.

The single over riding factor that I know you don't believe, is that there are other powers being JUDGED in this present creation.

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"other powers being JUDGED"

What does that mean? Something God didn't perfectly create?

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

This is talking about Roman and other Gentile hegemony...
Principalities... are kingdoms of men. Powers are governments. Rulers of darkness are pagan emperors. Spiritual wickedness is evil done in the name of the law that goes against God's law.

You actually believe in demons and devils battling angels all around you at this very minute?

KCDAD said:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

This is talking about Roman and other Gentile hegemony...

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Only in your eyes.

Principalities... are kingdoms of men. Powers are governments. Rulers of darkness are pagan emperors. Spiritual wickedness is evil done in the name of the law that goes against God's law.

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Look, your understanding of text in these matters is quite short and you have a fleshly view only.

The bottom line is without SATAN as a separate entity than Jesus you are logically left with Jesus as Satan, and of course that puts you out into your own little world, well out of most of orthodoxy. You are welcome to believe that. That won't cut it with even your logo group.

You actually believe in demons and devils battling angels all around you at this very minute?

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Why would anyone reading the text discount angelic beings, seen or unseen. Jesus Himself is now NOT physically seen.

You can certainly employ your fantasy in these matters. Follow your own head. That is all you are interested in anyway. What you can see ONLY with your EYES. There are more interesting things to see that can't be seen, even using YOUR views. One cannot lasso INFINITY or LOVE for examples. You can't 'lay eyes of flesh' upon such matters.

enjoy!

s

squint said:

Only in your eyes.

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Gosh maybe that is because we are FLESH. As was Jesus. There are no "spirits" if you mean invisible creatures. Jesus was supposedly raised in the flesh... LIKE US. All of sudden he turned into a "spirit"?????

You truly believe in magic. What a pity.

KCDAD said:

Gosh maybe that is because we are FLESH. As was Jesus. There are no "spirits" if you mean invisible creatures. Jesus was supposedly raised in the flesh... LIKE US. All of sudden he turned into a "spirit"?????

You truly believe in magic. What a pity.

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The day you can put love in a box and set it before your eyes, let me know and I'll come over and have a look see.

s

squint said:

The day you can put love in a box and set it before your eyes, let me know and I'll come over and have a look see.

s

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Love is something you can see... in action. It certainly isn't invisible, because if it is, it isn't love.

KCDAD said:

Gosh maybe that is because we are FLESH. As was Jesus. There are no "spirits" if you mean invisible creatures. Jesus was supposedly raised in the flesh... LIKE US. All of sudden he turned into a "spirit"?????

You truly believe in magic. What a pity.

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If you don't believe in spirits I'm guessing you don't believe in an afterlife....