What will happen in the judgment day to these who born before Jesus?

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Wicked Willow

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ό ων;54199229 said:
Zeus worshippers also sacrificed their sons/daughters to the flame and had orgies with the priests.
Please enlighten me: what is your source for this hilarious assessment of Greek polytheism?
Lying for Jesus is a sin, too, you know?

Furthermore, if this is the way to determine whether a deity is worth worshipping or not, Abraham should have turned his back on YHVH as soon as the latter demanded Isaac's blood. Now, we know in retrospect that it was supposedly but a test, but Abraham didn't. As far as he knew, YHVH was dead earnest in his request - AND he was more than willing to murder his own son. He had basically committed the crime in all but deed when the replacement goat showed up.
 
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Under Grace

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Please enlighten me: what is your source for this hilarious assessment of Greek polytheism?
Lying for Jesus is a sin, too, you know?

Furthermore, if this is the way to determine whether a deity is worth worshipping or not, Abraham should have turned his back on YHVH as soon as the latter demanded Isaac's blood. Now, we know in retrospect that it was supposedly but a test, but Abraham didn't. As far as he knew, YHVH was dead earnest in his request - AND he was more than willing to murder his own son. He had basically committed the crime in all but deed when the replacement goat showed up.

The Gauls were from Celtic peoples near a region which is now France/Belgium. This area was conquered by Julius Caesar in 51 BC. The people continued to practice their pagan religion which was simply incorporated into the polytheistic soup that existed back then, one of which was the altar to zeus in Pergamos, (a rather important one). They (Gauls) sacrificed men employing the Druids to perform the sacrifices. It seems they would fill large containers with live men and set them on fire. This manner of sacrifice stems from the biblical accounts of the Asherah poles, a canaan religion where sacrificing included children. Who is lying?

Abraham was in direct contact with G*d and this obviously was something more than simply following one's good conscious. There have been commentators stating Abraham knew the purpose for G*d's request and in fact knew Isaac would not die. (He "rehearsed" or played out a rehearsal for the real thing to be completed by G*d at a later date.) The Israelites also rehearsed on a yearly basis. These dress rehearsals are the Passover with the lamb, Feast of unleavened bread, feast of firstfruits, feast of yom kippur, feast of tabernacles. These are all dress rehearsals.
 
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Under Grace

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And that's not even counting all of the Rape, Pillage, Murder, and Human Sacrifices that YHVH instructed His believers to commit or He commited Himself.

.

Where do get this information?

Biblically, G*d never considered human sacrifice. Jer32.35 "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded, nor did it enter my mind, that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin."

The same goes for rape and murder. G*d specifically told the Israelites not to marry sons/daughters of other races which were not Israelite. G*d is specifically against murder... (you heard of the ten commandments). Death as a casualty of war is another issue.

Perhaps you should visit the enlightenment portion of CF where you can learn some Bible basics.
 
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b&wpac4

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ό ων;54201406 said:
Biblically, G*d never considered human sacrifice. Jer32.35 "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded, nor did it enter my mind, that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin."

:cool:
 
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Under Grace

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Is this your issue too?

Take a man in the military who throws himself onto an exploding grenade, sacrificing his life in order to save his fellows.

This is what G*d did thru Jesus. That is why, the "word became flesh." "You know the father if you know me." G*d in the flesh sacrificing himself to save those who believe. Jesus and the Father are "one."
 
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dlamberth

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ό ων;54201406 said:
Where do get this information?
From your Bible. Here’s a good list to start. There’s more.


Rape, murder and pillage:
Judges 21:10-24
Numbers 31:7-18
Deuteronomy 20:10-14

David’s Punishment : Baby killed by God
2 Samuel 12:11-14

Instructions of Rape of Female Captives whom God delivers
Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Rape and spoils of war
Judges 5:30

Human Sacrifice
Judges 11:29-40
1 Kings 13:1-2


Burning Humans
Joshua 7:15

Murder instructions
Deuteronomy 13:13-19
Deuteronomy 17:12
Exodus 22:17
Leviticus 20:13
Leviticus 20:27
Exodus 21:15
Leviticus 20:9
Leviticus 21:9
Leviticus 20:10
2 Chronicles 15:12-13
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Deuteronomy 13:7-12
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
Romans 1:24-32
Numbers 1:48-51
Exodus 31:12-15

God’s acts of murder
2 Kings 2:23-24
1Samuel 6:19-20
1 Kings 20:35-36
 
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Under Grace

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From your Bible. Here’s a good list to start. There’s more.

Rape, murder and pillage:
Judges 21:10-24
Numbers 31:7-18
Deuteronomy 20:10-14

These are all war scenes, not murder. Deuteronomy 20:14, when women were taken as plunder, the israelites were not supposed to marry them but rather use them as servants. If they did marry, they were to treat them as a wife.

Judges 11:29 that you refer to:
Here Jephthah made this vow with G*d. It was not something G*d expected anyone to do. Clearly it was Jephthah's own decision to do it.

I do not have a problem with any of this. It is all war-related. Plunder (as a right to the victor) is to be treated fairly (following strict guidelines). G*d gives instructions on carrying out judgements against the wicked (his right). Elisha in 2Kings is seen making his own decisions.

You seem to veer off a tangent to make a point. You failed.

Originally the blue faced avatar made a comment with regards to Abraham and Isaac to which I responded. Do you have a question on that comment?
 
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b&wpac4

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ό ων;54201429 said:
Take a man in the military who throws himself onto an exploding grenade, sacrificing his life in order to save his fellows.

Now, take that same man and give him unlimited power and knowledge. The best plan he has is to jump on the grenade? Here I am, merely human, and I can come up with, off the top of my head, 10 different ways to handle that without involving my own death.
 
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dlamberth

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ό ων;54201958 said:
I do not have a problem with any of this. It is all war-related. Plunder (as a right to the victor) is to be treated fairly (following strict guidelines). G*d gives instructions on carrying out judgements against the wicked (his right). Elisha in 2Kings is seen making his own decisions.

You seem to veer off a tangent to make a point. You failed.

Originally the blue faced avatar made a comment with regards to Abraham and Isaac to which I responded. Do you have a question on that comment?

Point was made, but you failed to recognize it. You throw stones as Zeus and Islam and at the same time defend your own image of God by tagging Him with a completely different standard for the atrocities that your God committed. You even go so far as to say that your God has a "right" to His atrocities committed. That’s called a “double standard?”

It’s the same double standard thats being deployed with your defense of Abraham being ready to sacrifice His own son at the bequest of God.

.
 
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Under Grace

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Point was made, but you failed to recognize it. You throw stones as Zeus and Islam and at the same time defend your own image of God by tagging Him with a completely different standard for the atrocities that your God committed. You even go so far as to say that your God has a "right" to His atrocities committed. That’s called a “double standard?”

It’s the same double standard thats being deployed with your defense of Abraham being ready to sacrifice His own son at the bequest of God.

.

You are not pointing out any detail. You make broad statements but with nothing to substantiate them.
 
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Under Grace

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Now, take that same man and give him unlimited power and knowledge. The best plan he has is to jump on the grenade? Here I am, merely human, and I can come up with, off the top of my head, 10 different ways to handle that without involving my own death.

Perhaps you can with the grenade sir. I do not speak for G*d though. I can point out some things...
  • life is in the blood (Deuteronomy); one life (adam) lost demanded another life
  • The "word" that became flesh had to return to G*d anyway; "his words do not return to Him void"
  • life and death are relative terms to humans and a small matter to G*d; G*d has the "keys to death and hades"
 
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Under Grace

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Point was made, but you failed to recognize it. You throw stones as Zeus and Islam and at the same time defend your own image of God by tagging Him with a completely different standard for the atrocities that your God committed. You even go so far as to say that your God has a "right" to His atrocities committed. That’s called a “double standard?”

It’s the same double standard thats being deployed with your defense of Abraham being ready to sacrifice His own son at the bequest of God.

.

You really seem upset and angry. With G*d perhaps? Though you make broad statements, I can try to answer best I can. You mentioned "your god" when there is only one G*d, so really it is your creator but you do not recognize Him.

The altar of zeus has some significance with the enemy/devil. Revelations (Bible) mentions the city of Pergamos as satan's throne only because this altar of zeus was constructed at Pergamos. Later Germany removed it and rebuilt it in a museum. Supposedly hitler had made many visits to this altar. What is the significance of this altar to you, may I ask?

The religion of islam is the perfect counter to christianity and judaism. From its foundation (koran) to its movement (islam), it was weaved/written/developed with the intention of countering christianity and judaism. You mistakenly defend islam NOT knowing that it professes the same god as that of the bible, (though it is not).

So your point is mute.

With regards to Abraham, perhaps you did not understand the point I made so I will quote it again here:

Abraham was in direct contact with G*d and this obviously was something more than simply following one's good conscious. There have been commentators stating Abraham knew the purpose for G*d's request and in fact knew Isaac would not die. (He "rehearsed" or played out a rehearsal for the real thing to be completed by G*d at a later date.) The Israelites also rehearsed on a yearly basis. These dress rehearsals are the Passover with the lamb, Feast of unleavened bread, feast of firstfruits, feast of yom kippur, feast of tabernacles. These are all dress rehearsals.

Finally, does G*d have the "right" to judge his creation? At least his judgement is fair and just (though it does not seem like it to you.) I would hate to think what it would be like if G*d's judgement was not fair and just.
 
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Wicked Willow

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ό ων;54201323 said:
The Gauls were from Celtic peoples near a region which is now France/Belgium. This area was conquered by Julius Caesar in 51 BC. The people continued to practice their pagan religion which was simply incorporated into the polytheistic soup that existed back then, one of which was the altar to zeus in Pergamos, (a rather important one). They (Gauls) sacrificed men employing the Druids to perform the sacrifices. It seems they would fill large containers with live men and set them on fire. This manner of sacrifice stems from the biblical accounts of the Asherah poles, a canaan religion where sacrificing included children. Who is lying?
Your deliberate ignorance is appalling.

You seem to operate under the delusion that pagan polytheism was a singular, cross-cultural religion. It wasn't. The Celts had their own pantheons, their own rituals, their own religion. And they did not worship Zeus (safe except for the inhabitants of Massilia and similar Greek colonies).
The Greeks didn't sacrifice human beings; their myths condemn the practice pretty much universally, and no archaeological evidence has ever showed up to suggest anything else. At best, the Minoan culture that preceded that of classical Greece might have condoned such practices, but even that is not undisputed.
And naturally, the Celtic religion and its rituals had virtually NOTHING to do with Canaanite practices. You might just as well claim that Shiva is in fact just another name for the god Baal.

As for the Wicker Man-sacrifice: do you support the death penalty? I don't, and consider it barbarism, but I know that many conservative Christians, particularly in the USA, have a different take on the question.
Now, the practice of burning people in large containers was a form of capital punishment, according to Julius Caesar. The victims were convicted murderers who received "their due". That doesn't redeem the practice as far as I'm concerned, but I wonder how someone who opts for the execution of murderers could possibly object.
 
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Under Grace

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altar of zeus at Pergamos - Antipas (christian) was martyrd by being burnt alive in 92AD inside a bull-shaped container used for casting out demons that were worshiped by the locals. The people of Pergamos were aware of this form of worship. They worshiped many gods one of which was zeus.

You evaded questioning my response on the Abraham/isaac rehearsal.

Flea 2 received a revelation that god (pink mammal) would bath dog spot the next morning but Flea 1 wanted nothing to do with it.

flea 1: I told you I do not care about your god!!
flea 2: Fine then.
The next day, flea 2 weathered the storm because it had prepared for the flood.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Please do not mix politics, or I'll have to remind you that's a partial view of the Middle East conflictS.
You have sunken awful deep in sympathy towards Islam. Having lived and practiced islam for a long time, I can assure you that not only their neighbors, muslims hate eachother too. What do you expect from a socio-political belief system anything other than politics?


Good responses in this thread ho On.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Your deliberate ignorance is appalling.
The more I use "your" remarks and sink to personal level, the more warnings/infractions I get. How are you managing to get by?

On a second note, that ignorance is only in the eye of the beholder. You simply don't agree with him...
 
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dlamberth

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ό ων;54202862 said:
You really seem upset and angry. With G*d perhaps?
Not with God but with the double standard of your image of God that many live by and which is used against other religions.

In the name of Jesus Christ, many have been killed by Christians. And, interestingly, many Christians have been killed by other Christians...gotta to keep the faith pure you know. That's all a historical truth. Christians have developed some of the most horrendous instruments of torture and murder ever devised by man kind. Burning at the stake and drowning were not uncommon. Whole villages have been wiped out because they were the wrong religion. In Christian Rome, more Christians were killed by Christians because of their wrong belief than were killed in the Coliseum. All the while other examples of atrocities run all through your Holy text. You come from a violent religion. Yet while the conversation is focud on Zeus you hardly look at the atrocious acts of your own religion, both in Holy text and in actual deeds. And when you are given examples, you make excuses for the atrocities committed in the name of your God. That’s a double standard big time, and seems very dishonest to me.

.

 
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Under Grace

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Not with God but with the double standard of your image of God that many live by and which is used against other religions.

In the name of Jesus Christ, many have been killed by Christians. And, interestingly, many Christians have been killed by other Christians...gotta to keep the faith pure you know. That's all a historical truth. Christians have developed some of the most horrendous instruments of torture and murder ever devised by man kind. Burning at the stake and drowning were not uncommon. Whole villages have been wiped out because they were the wrong religion. In Christian Rome, more Christians were killed by Christians because of their wrong belief than were killed in the Coliseum. All the while other examples of atrocities run all through your Holy text. You come from a violent religion. Yet while the conversation is focud on Zeus you hardly look at the atrocious acts of your own religion, both in Holy text and in actual deeds. And when you are given examples, you make excuses for the atrocities committed in the name of your God. That’s a double standard big time, and seems very dishonest to me.
.


With all respect, you seem to have a double standard. I do not. Here is a clip from YOUR profile page:
Current Location Oregon. Interests Bee Keeping, Geology, Gardening, Reading (Geology, Religion, Politics). Political Party US-Others <LI class=profilefield_category>My Christianity Fav. Verse Matthew 25:31-46. Origin of the Life View. Theistic Evolution. Life View Liberal
Here is a clip from YOUR favorite verse, Mathew 25:31-46

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Please refrain from debasing me further... I desire only the best of G*d's blessings for you and I hope you can decipher G*d's "will".
 
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dlamberth

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&#972; &#969;&#957;;54207928 said:
With all respect, you seem to have a double standard. I do not.
More Christian Violence&#8230;

Have you heard of the &#8220;Doctrine of Discovery&#8221;. Google it.

The atrocities including rape, murder and genocide committed on the indigenous people found in the America&#8217;s is a direct result of the spread of Christian Theocracy that were sactioned by the Church issued documents that together make up the "Doctrine of Discovery".

Columbus used the Bull Romanus Pontifex of 1452 issued by Pope Nicholas V to claim the lands they landed on in the name of Christ. The Bull among other things, allowed the taking of lands of the people who occupied it if they were not Christian. Several other theological and legal Papal documents followed and together they became known as the &#8220;Doctrine of Discovery&#8221;.

The Doctrine of Discovery became law in American in the early 1800s. That&#8217;s what gave the American Government legal rights to it&#8217;s acts of American Indian genocide.

It is important to recognize that the grim acts of genocide, and conquest committed by Columbus and his men against the peaceful people of the Caribbean were sanctioned by the above documents issued by the Church.

Indeed, these Church documents were frequently used by other Christian European conquerors in the Americas to justify an incredibly brutal system of colonization - which dehumanized the indigenous people by regarding their territories as being "inhabited only by brute animals." Rape, murder and Pillage were seen as part of the process of cleansing the occupied lands of non-Christians.

As is well known, the Spanish were pretty brutal against the Aztec. The &#8220;Doctrine of Discovery&#8221; documents issued by the Church is what sanctioned their actions.

Go ahead and talk all you want about the followers of Zeus. It's a losing bet on your part. I have no doubt that I can go on a lot longer than you can with example after example of the atrocities committed by the followers of Jesus Christ. You come from a religion with a violent history, both in Holy Text and in recorded historical acts. There is much to draw upon.

.
 
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