The Official Discussion:Is There A Pre,Mid Or Post Trib Rapture Or Not

B1inHim · Feb 15, 2010

zeke37 said:
no one leaves the planet to escape the tribulation or the vials of God's wrath
if you are in Christ, those vials won't hurt you at all...
no matter where ya are.

If there is merit, then let it be so and the teaching speak for itself.

Who is your teacher and why have you not spent any time telling us who you are by way of the profile... 2007 is your join year...HOW can we possibly listen to such a radical difference of theology when the one showing it will not show who the author is. And by what fruit are you known by? Your personal profile...?

May your answer be one that will show grace on the reader and mercy to the one asking.

Thanks

Your servant brother Jerry

zeke37 · Feb 15, 2010

B1inHim said:
If there is merit, then let it be so and the teaching speak for itself.

exactly, I agree...

Who is your teacher

My friend, the Word of God is...
but if ya read my profile closely
you'd figure out who I studied under
for the first few years after my conversion.

I learned how to study any subject for my self...
look it up with Biblical president,
going back to the Original languages written in,
divide it properly
and not rely on man's preconceived flawed interpretations

and why have you not spent any time telling us who you are by way of the profile...

not in it for personal satisfaction....
I do not have to say, "look at me!!!!"
"see how much I put in the plate!!!!"

2007 is your join year...

and?

HOW can we possibly listen to such a radical difference of theology when the one showing it will not show who the author is.

since when has who said it, meant anything to Our Father?
God is the one that justifies the messenger, not men.

And by what fruit are you known by? Your personal profile...?

answered above....

a quote from a movie..."you don't know me, you only think you do!!!" (I think it was Get Shorty)

May your answer be one that will show grace on the reader and mercy to the one asking.

Thanks

Your servant brother Jerry

thanks yourself, Jerry....

this response may show many things,
included would be that you are being judgemental
towards a fellow Brother in Christ...

My personal story has been told here on these threads, multiple times
but I do have a lot of posts,
and more than what is shown......

perhaps you have missed them...
so if ya wanna search, be my guest
God knows where my heart is...
and what my motivation is...

it's about the doctrine for me, not the person...
many of the potential bride shall be decieved/beguiled/seduced/turned into the harlot,
yet many of you guys don't even think you'll be here on the planet, for the deception...

see the connection?

can't you see how easy it will be to deceive
those who are not even looking for a deception
'cause they think they'll be gone ?

the faithful are gathered to Christ here on earth,
when He brings the dead from heaven with Him
and then the wrath of God is poured out...

so escape what is coming, the tribulation of Satan,
by being filled up with the truth of God's Word
and knowing who is who and who is not Who

His Will be done AMEN

Big Mouth Nana · Feb 15, 2010

HarrisonS said:
If you do a study of the term "Day of the Lord " throughout the Bible, you will see that it is not a literal, 24-hour day, but rather it encompasses both the 7-year tribulation period and the 1000-year millennium that follows.

Uh, better take a look at this. Jesus own words...Jn 11:9 ~Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. It stands to reason that if there are twelve hours in the day, that there are 12 hours in the night which = 24 hours. The Day of The Lord is a 24 hour period. Also, the tribulation is not 7 years. It is forty two months, 3.5 years to be exact...Rev 11:2 & Rev 13:5. The tribulation only lasts until Christ comes. The AC only has power for 42 months. Once he's powerless, no more great tribulation.

You are correct in stating that there is a gather the elect of the 2 houses of Israel (Jacob and Judah), and it is this event that is being described in Matt 24:31. Again, there is no mention of the rapture in Matt 24. It is this event and the punishing of the wicked that occurs immediately after the tribulation. Again, there is no rapture in Matt 24.

As I have pointed out before, if the rapture occurred after the tribulation, all believers would be raptured, while the wicked are judged, and there would be no one left on the earth who would be able to repopulate it during the millennium. For this reason alone, I believe that a post tribulation rapture is impossible.

The two houses, Jacob and Judah are going to repopulate the earth. They are hidden according to scripture Isaiah 26:19-21 ~ Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise (Second coming/resurrection/Day of the Lord) Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, ( has to be the remnant, we are already resurrected) enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

As you should be able to comprehend, this is the resurrection of the dead/changing of the still living/Day of the Lord, and the others are hidden. It is the spared remnant of Jacob and Judah.

It is not obvious. And it is very dangerous to make assumptions like this without other Biblical support.

Funny you should say "biblical support". You have only posted one verse and joked around on the other threads that I have read :idea:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that I have missed some

visionary · Feb 15, 2010

For a while there 'mid' had more than 0% and in fact was neck and neck with the other points of view.. what happened?

Big Mouth Nana · Feb 15, 2010

visionary said:
For a while there 'mid' had more than 0% and in fact was neck and neck with the other points of view.. what happened?

God opened their eyes and they switched to post

oneofchrists · Feb 15, 2010

Zeke! Do You study under Arnold Murray of "The Shepards Chapel"?.............I always wondered about His teachings, although I have not watched Him since I stopped using My 12 foot Star trak dish and receiver, 10 years ago or more............I was always interested in His Ideas about creation..........God Bless You and all who read this thread........Dave

zeke37 · Feb 15, 2010

oneofchrists said:
Zeke! Do You study under Arnold Murray of "The Shepards Chapel"?.............I always wondered about His teachings, although I have not watched Him since I stopped using My 12 foot Star trak dish and receiver, 10 years ago or more............I was always interested in His Ideas about creation..........God Bless You and all who read this thread........Dave

hi, to answer brother Jerry and your question....

shortly after my conversion/baptism/born again,
i was contemplating the end times and the rapture.
my family members were convinced that we don't have to worry about it, 'cause we'd be gone....taken away early

well, while praying/meditating on this,
soon I was led to a program where the first thing said was,
that's because there is no pre tribulation rapture...

i listened...and agreed whole heartedly...

in short, to your question, yes.
I listened and studied for years..
gave me a good solid foundation in the Word

but i study for myself now....
he certainly taught me how to study,
and is by far the best teacher of the Word I've ever come across...

not that I completely agree with all his interps.

but the internet lies outright about him....here-say etc...

if ya want more info, go to the shepherd's chapel site for their statement of faith....
Shepherd's Chapel - Statement of Faith - Page 1

answer to critics.....
Shepherd's Chapel - Answer to Critics

here is a message board to a site that some of the students of that show use...
and I still learn from, ........if you really want to study...
THE FIG TREE CAFE - Forums for Bible Study - THESEASON.ORG - Message Board Yuku

have a great day

interpreter · Feb 15, 2010

All I know is, Jesus never mentioned a rapture. In fact, he said just the opposite. As in the days of Noah and Lot, the bad guys will be taken, and the good guys left.

And Matthew 24:30-31 has already been fulfilled -- back in the 4th century, when the sign of the sign of Man appeared in the clouds (known as the turning point of history), and all the Church was gathered together, to Nicea. Ever since the day the sign of the Son of Man appeared (when also the first Christian horseman appeared) , Jesus has sat at the right hand of power.

B1inHim · Feb 15, 2010

zeke37 said:
His Will be done AMEN

Amen Zeke...

EDITED by you know who***... my teachers were "faith" teachers of which I gleaned the wheat from and let the chaff fall to the wind...

I never was taught about the "harpazo" until I actually was in it, in the gift.
THEN I found out that there are all sorts of interpretations about it out there... what a TRIP!...

As far as your particular timing of the "harpazo" we are right about the same...but your interpretation of the seals is one dimensional as is the 12 Jews... or some of the other things that we do not agree on... this will all prove out in due time...

I say that when the 6th seal is opened... opening something is an action

Actions always have a significant corresponding re-action.

The fact that over 1/4th of the population dies every second is proof to me that the 4th seal is open.http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/pcwe

When the 6th seal is opened events will take place... physical, visible, tangible, real events will take place, just like things happened with the first 5 seals before now...

Love
your servant brother Jerry

B1inHim · Feb 15, 2010

zeke37 said:
hi, to answer brother Jerry and your question....

i listened...and agreed whole heartedly...

in short, to your question, yes.
I listened and studied for years..
gave me a good solid foundation in the Word

but i study for myself now....
he certainly taught me how to study,
and is by far the best teacher of the Word I've ever come across...

have a great day

Thank you

Your servant brother Jerry

A Brother In Christ · Feb 16, 2010

the departure from earth ... aka Rapture is a mystery truth and a judgement of the church in the dispensation of grace

the church does not need to know of the Day of the Lord because of this fact .. 1 thes 5:1-2 why is this important because the Jews are promised to experience Judgement of the law during this time ... minor prophets books

zeke37 · Feb 16, 2010

the church is here in the trib, see Rev1-3, 11..candlesticks=churches
also Satan gos after the believers in Christ when he is cast here for his short season...at the end of Rev12.

HarrisonS · Feb 16, 2010

Big Mouth Nana said:
Uh, better take a look at this. Jesus own words...Jn 11:9 ~Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. It stands to reason that if there are twelve hours in the day, that there are 12 hours in the night which = 24 hours. The Day of The Lord is a 24 hour period. Also, the tribulation is not 7 years. It is forty two months, 3.5 years to be exact...Rev 11:2 & Rev 13:5. The tribulation only lasts until Christ comes. The AC only has power for 42 months. Once he's powerless, no more great tribulation.

You need to do a study of the term "day of the Lord", using a concordance and trace it through the entire Bible. This is a technical term that always refers to the tribulation period, to the millennium, or to both. Even the phrase "that day" almost always refers to this period as well. If you need further proof, you can also check a good commentary that deals with eschatological scripture. In scripture, the word "day" can sometimes refers to a literal, 24-hour day, but at other times can refer to an extended period of time, just as it does in modern English.

In common theological usage, "tribulation" is often used to refer to the entire 7-years, and "great tribulation" to the last 3 1/2 years. This is a matter of pure semantics, and we need not belabor this point.

The two houses, Jacob and Judah are going to repopulate the earth. They are hidden according to scripture Isaiah 26:19-21 ~ Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise (Second coming/resurrection/Day of the Lord) Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, ( has to be the remnant, we are already resurrected) enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

As you should be able to comprehend, this is the resurrection of the dead/changing of the still living/Day of the Lord, and the others are hidden. It is the spared remnant of Jacob and Judah.

I see no need to belabor this, since we are in complete agreement here. These are tribulation believers, who are also of ethnic Israel. (But wouldn't these be raptured also, if the rapture were post-trib? Let's not discriminate!) However, there are also many Gentiles, entire nations of them, in fact, during the millennium. There are many Biblical references to to support this. Note for example Zech 14:16:

16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

zeke37 · Feb 16, 2010

A Brother In Christ said:
the departure from earth ... aka Rapture is a mystery truth and a judgement of the church in the dispensation of grace

the church does not need to know of the Day of the Lord because of this fact .. 1 thes 5:1-2 why is this important because the Jews are promised to experience Judgement of the law during this time ... minor prophets books

what a sad statement...

this is the point that pre trib makes...don't worry about it, you'll be gone...you won't be here...you don't need to study that part of God's Holy Word

so very sad indeed

who better to be deceive, than those who don't even think they'll be here...
they are not going to be looking/watching/working at all in that time...
they won't even know that they are in it at all....
which is just what scripture says will happen...unaware, by suprise...etc...

A Brother In Christ · Feb 23, 2010

zeke37 said:
the church is here in the trib, see Rev1-3, 11..candlesticks=churches Do not have problem with this statement ... But in Rev 4-5 the elder are clearly the church which are in Heaven do to promises given to us .

also Satan gos after the believers in Christ when he is cast here for his short season...at the end of Rev12.

In 1 cor 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

This is a list of believers... Yes three different groups.
#1 Jews promised the earth.... Matt 5:5
#2 Gentiles ... Adam to Abraham... Heb 12:23 spirit of just men made perfect...
#3 Church of God.... Heb 12:23 firstborn... Romans 8:23, Heb 11:39-40, 2 peter 1:4

those believer in rev 12... are the 144,000 and gentile believer in Matt 25:32-36,40... beheaded ones in rev

B1inHim · Feb 23, 2010

Every single solitary verse that we are discussing is subject to interpretation... There are entire groups who say it is "this" way and thousands who believe it is "that" way... and others who say that they believe this and that.

The debate is over when the "harpazo" is going to take place...

There is no debate.

It takes place during a very BIG earthquake amidst the Great Tribulation...It will be the seal of the sun and the blood-red moon.
It will be prior to Revelation 7. and yet part of Rev 11.
The mystery is to those who do NOT have the Spirit of God dwelling within them.
There are no multitudes of the body of Christ in heaven per-se until Rev.7 and we are again spoken of later on as His army...

The Harpazo is as follows...
YouTube - THE Rapture.vob
Love,
your servant brother Jerry

zeke37 · Feb 24, 2010

B1inHim said:
Every single solitary verse that we are discussing is subject to interpretation... There are entire groups who say it is "this" way and thousands who believe it is "that" way... and others who say that they believe this and that.

The debate is over when the "harpazo" is going to take place...

There is no debate.

Hi.....

of course there is adebate, or else we'd all see it the way you do

It takes place during a very BIG earthquake amidst the Great Tribulation...

after the great tribulation (to end it really)

It will be the seal of the sun and the blood-red moon.
It will be prior to Revelation 7.

nope

and yet part of Rev 11.

yep and Rev19

The mystery is to those who do NOT have the Spirit of God dwelling within them.

oh...does that include yourself, if you are wrong?

There are no multitudes of the body of Christ in heaven per-se until Rev.7 and we are again spoken of later on as His army...

many different interps...
one is that Rev7's second group is a scene from after the whole thing is over...
an insert...
the spiritual offspring of the 144,000 above...
those that inhabit the new earth age.

The Harpazo is as follows...

welllllll, maybe not!

visionary · Feb 24, 2010

A Brother In Christ said:
the departure from earth ... aka Rapture is a mystery truth and a judgement of the church in the dispensation of grace

the church does not need to know of the Day of the Lord because of this fact .. 1 thes 5:1-2 why is this important because the Jews are promised to experience Judgement of the law during this time ... minor prophets books

this is not what Jesus prayed for...

John 17:15 (King James Version)

15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

NJBeliever · Feb 24, 2010

visionary said:
this is not what Jesus prayed for...

John 17:15 (King James Version)

15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

That was in reference to his disciples spreading the Gospel in the world and helping to build up the church.

visionary · Feb 24, 2010

NJBeliever said:
That was in reference to his disciples spreading the Gospel in the world and helping to build up the church.

Oh.. like the Lord never knew that rapture would be taught in the future and this would be scripture for the Holy Spirit to apply to our lives today.

The Official Discussion:Is There A Pre,Mid Or Post Trib Rapture Or Not

Will There Be A Rapture And If So When

Yes There Will Be A Pre Trib Rapture

Yes There Will Be A Mid Trib Rapture

Yes There Will Be A Post Trib Rapture

No There Won't Be A Rapture At All

Not Sure

LOVE one another

IMO...

Post Tribulationist

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Post Tribulationist

Give Me Stength Lord

IMO...

Senior Member

LOVE one another

LOVE one another

Senior Veteran

IMO...

Junior Member

IMO...

Senior Veteran

LOVE one another

IMO...

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Newbie

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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