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Extirpated Wildlife

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Originally posted by Received
Which of the 33,800 denominations in america doesn't consider itself the "it"

I've never understood this.

There isnt that many denominations. How do they rationalize that there are that many denominations? Do they count each individual church?
 
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Caedmon

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Originally posted by VirginBlack
I think it is cool that there are many denominations. How would it be with just one way to pray, preach and sing? It would be boring, wouldn't it? I like to see many ways of worshiping Christ and I think that it is great that everybody, no matter what preferences he or she maybe have, can participate in the body of Christ. There is room for everybody.

It's not about worship style. Even the Catholic Church has a slightly different mass style for charismatic worshippers. The difference in denominations is doctrine, not worship style.
 
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EPHRIAM777

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Originally posted by BuffPansy [/i]
Denominations? Sinful, all the way.

Luke 11:17
1 Corinthians 1:10-17, 3:1-4
Ephesians 4:1-6
Philippians 2:1-4, 4:2-7
Titus 3:9-11

Eph writes...

Hey Buff...I'm not for division...but read MARK 9:38:41....next chance ya get..

Seems that while Jesus was still alive..there were people who were doing things a bit differently than others were...It didn't bother Jesus in the least....Although if you read the verses it did upset the Apostle..!

We're not all "cookie cut outs"...for Jesus..all doing the same things for him in the exact same way....

I don't think he wants people to be robots....!
 
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EPHRIAM777

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I heard a story once about Jesus...

...He was in Jerusalem preaching and teaching...When he came upon a blind man..Jesus spoke to him saying "be healed"...and right away his eyes were healed...Everyone who saw this miracle praised God and believed on Jesus...and began to do as Jesus did..!

...Jesus came to another part of Jerusalem and preached and teached and came upon another blind man...Jesus touched the man's blind eyes and said be healed...and right away his eyes were healed...All who saw this believed on Jesus and began to do the same as Jesus did..

....In another part of Jerusalem...Jesus met a blind man asking to be healed....Jesus knelt down and picked up some dirt..spit into it and made some mud...rubbed it on the mans eyes and straight away he was healed and able to see....All the people who witnessed this miracle praised the Lord and worshipped Jesus and began to do the same as Jesus did..

Everything was going great in Jerusalem back then...The word was being taught...the blind were being healed....and Jesus was the focus of all...!

Till one fateful day....!

When the "speak and be healed" people came across the "touch and be healed" people...Who just were ending an argument with the "spit and mud ball healers for Jesus" folks...!

....They all began to argue with each other about WHO was doing it right..."Just like Jesus would do it"...! Each claiming THEY alone were doing it just as Jesus did...and the others were wrong...!

....and while they argued away about who was correct something else happened they didn't even realise or think about....!

Nobody was preaching and teaching about Jesus anymore....and NO blind eyes were being opened..!

I always think of MARK 9:38:41..and that little story when "divisions" occur...!

LIVE your convictions...Preach Chirst...!

(( and try not to have a small "limited view" of what Jesus and his followers can be like or preach about him like ))
 
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Mother Vashti

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Excellent post, Ephriam.
...All the same, we should not have these divisions among us. Since the Catholic Church is the largest church, I say the Protestant, Ethiopian Orthodox, Nestorians, etc. meld back into it, and we all sit down and finish reforming the Church. Persecution and division should have never been the options we took.
 
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Caedmon

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Again, denominations aren't different because of "worship styles". Denominations are different because of doctrines.

It isn't just a different way of worshipping the same God for one group to say that Mary had lots of children, and for another group to say that Jesus was her only son! That, my friends, is a difference in doctrine, not worship style.
 
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OracleX

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This is a issue that I have been thinking a fair bit about. I attend a independent baptist church and as you might be aware, they are fairly ridgid and conservative. Our pastor once did a sermon called 'Why Unity in Christianity is impossible.' I wish I would post a tape of it. It speaks well to this topic.

I am still confused and sorting this out myself but this is where I am. I don't believe that denominations are good things. I think as someone else already mentioned that they have come out of good intentions. But I also think that they may have come out of pride just as much. I dearly respect and love the strong teaching that I get at my church - but I don't think that baptist are the right denomination because I don't think that there is such a thing. What I do believe is that our local church is the right church in that it has unity in what is believed. Although I do not agree completely with every opinion that our pastor says, I do agree with what he teaches about the Word.

I think that part of the problem is that people get opinions mixed up with what the Word of God says.

Is the Bible really that hard to understand? Is there some mysterious hidden meaning that we must find? Is there secret levels that can only be achived by your understanding? Do you really think that God would make His Word so complicated that no one could understand or agree on it? Do you think that God is the God of confusion or riddles or devisions? Do you think that the Word of God is forever as it is? Or can we improve on it or bring it up to date with the way the world is now? Was the teaching of Paul just for that day and age and needs to conform to 21st century?

Some times I think Christians (denominations) are in some sort of competition to prove who is the best. It is also very clear that we can disagree and debat on anything and everything: there are probably people who debat on if Adam had a belly button or not and are willing to create a new denomination out of what they believe about that point. Pride was the first sin and it seems to be the mostly deadly one for the church too.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't believe that denominations are good things. God called us to unity and there is no (or very few) denomination that can say that all its churchs are in unity with the core of Gods Word. What I believe is that the local church is what is talked about in the Word and the local church is to be in unity. It is what is taught at the local church not the denomination that matters.

In the end it is not your denomination or which local church that you attend that will save you. Only God can save our souls. I guess the hard part is finding a church the teaches the Word correctly. But then starts the whole thing all over again by asking what is correct.

Sorry about rambling so much there. I am trying to work out this issue in my mind.
 
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dnich163

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I know that that is why the RC church states itself as an Apostolic church, because Jesus left very little instructions about how his church was to be run and administered.
That is why there is a reliance on the Apostles, who effectively were the church Jesus left on Earth.

David
 
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Inlove

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well I have no problem with people who go to a church with a denomination. Even the non-denomination churchs are a denomination now. I well say though I do not want to be link to a denomination.

I go back and forth alot on denomination. Right or are the wrong, one way they are right and in another there wrong. I have heard it said that we cannot interpret the word of God without are sinful nature geting in the way.

Therefore when we read a passage, we merely come up with our own interpretation. And if we say "I don’t believe in denominations, I just believe the Bible", we are actually saying, "I don’t believe in subjective interpretations, I just believe in my objective interpretation of the Bible." And since we are not God and cannot have an objective interpretation of the Bible - we can further restate this sentence to say, "I don’t believe in subjective interpretations, I just believe in my subjective interpretation of the Bible."

We have just made our interpretation of the Bible on the same level as the Bible. We have just elevated our own sinful, incomplete interpretation up to a God-like level. And that prideful stance is one I don’t think any of us want to be in.

(this in itself is a doctrine from a man so it should only be look at as a grain of salt)

Who is to say which denomination is right. Each one says what they have come to an understanding of and what they stand on is what the Holy Spirit has given them, but if they are all different then one of them has to be wrong are all of them are wrong cause the Holy Spirit doesn't disagree with Himself.

So I really don't now where to stand on this subject this is more of a doctrine thing then a denomination thing. Right now in life I am just worshiping God.
 
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Achichem

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aggie03 said:
What do you all think about denominations?
“Division is like a river, for some each stream or part of the river is a river unto itself, yet you should see nothing of the sort, for a river is one, it flows all from one source, so know that surly there are rocks or issues, and surly there shall be streams and parts made by the rocks, but know that all come from the same source, and all follow in truth.”

Yet there are some who will take this the wrong way, for surly I tell you that some streams make themselves appear as though they were part of your source when really then are part of another. You may only know them by their waters for surly if there waters are in blood or envy or greed or adultery or anything against that prescribed in the written things of good, then truly that is not of your river.

Yet still always remember that all rivers will have different parts and streams, yet surly they come of the same source, also know that you shall be one in the ocean of life.
Praise and glory be to Him who is good.
 
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Philip

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Inlove said:
well I have no problem with people who go to a church with a denomination. Even the non-denomination churchs are a denomination now. I well say though I do not want to be link to a denomination.....So I really don't now where to stand on this subject this is more of a doctrine thing then a denomination thing. Right now in life I am just worshiping God.

Good post. Do you have a plan for avoiding subjective interpretations?
 
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Polycarp1

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IMO, while divisiveness and hostility between Christians are obviously not a good thing, the diversity of denominations in some ways is. Each group has its own special imperatives, things that it feels called to emphasize and focus on. And as a result the whole church, the Mystical Body spread across denominations, is enrichened. I base this on applying to the churches the precepts of I Corinthians 12.
 
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Gamecock

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Theresa said:
The 38,000 different denominations stem from a "Sola Scriptura" theology which says that we go by the "Bible alone." .
Theresa

Ahhh, the myth of 38, 000 denominations!

According to Barrett, here is the real breakdown:

Barrett identifies seven major ecclesiastical "blocs" under which these 22,190 distinct denominations fall (Barrett, 14-15): (1) Roman Catholicism, which accounts for 223 denominations; (2) Protestant, which accounts for 8,196 denominations; (3) Orthodox, which accounts for 580 denominations; (4) Non-White Indigenous, which accounts for 10,956 denominations; (5) Anglican, which accounts for 240 denominations; (6) Marginal Protestant, which includes Jehovah s Witnesses, Mormons, New Age groups, and all cults (Barrett, 14), and which accounts for 1,490 denominations; and (7) Catholic (Non-Roman), which accounts for 504 denominations.​


#8,ooo is just a strawman:sleep:
 
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SoliDeoGloria

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As a protestant believer, it would be politically correct to declare my apathy towards the issue on denominations, as the Protestant tradition spearheaded by our spiritual "Father" - Martin Luther - implicates the notion of an invisible unity of the Body of Christ. Thus there is a somewhat unity in the midst of a diverse milieu of traditions, sects and denominations.

A common adage preached in modern Protestantism would be that of majoring on the majors, and not the minors. As long as we still adhere to the fundamentals of the truth, of Christ, salvation, etc etc, there is no harm at all.

Yet again, on an epistemological level, I can see some problems. One of the most fundamental laws of knowledge, or what we call First Principles, is that of the Law of Non-Contradiction. What this premise means is that a contradiction cannot exist one and the same time. There cannot be a co-existence of a contradiction (in the logical sense).

Statement A: There is a basketball under the bed.
Statement B: There is NO basketball under the bed.

I cannot make the claim that statements A and B are both true, at any ONE given moment. To make such a claim is to render all reality as nonsense and illogical. Either there is, or there isn't a ball. Of course, at two different times, both A and B can be true. But at any one time, there is always an antithesis. Thus the exclusivity of truth, epistemologically. Of course, this assumes the correspondence theory of truth, as espoused by analytic philosophers such as the late Bertrand Russell and Ludwig Wittgenstein. Even the more contemporary thinker and intellectual, the late Mortimer J. Adler (author of Ten Philosophical Mistakes, Six Great Ideas, How to Read a Book), do not decry against this fundamental tenet of truth.

Bringing this premise upon the issue of denominations, we can note that there are differences within Protestantism which are not minor at all. There is such a myriad of theological differences amongst denominations which contradict each other, and yet the propopents of each tradition attribute their theological rendering to the Holy Spirit and conviction.

But how is it possible for the Holy Spirit to contradict Himself?

Hmm...

Baptismal Regeneration.

Adult Baptism contra Infant Baptism

Immersion or infusion?

Justification by faith alone..?

Scripture alone?

Spirit Baptism with tongues?

Cessationist or non-cessationist?

Calvinism contra Arminian

etc etc.

And in each issue, the bible is taken as the sole rule of faith in defense. Yet the contradictions abound.

Hmm..which view is correct? Since both contradictions cannot be right? Who to believe? All claim it is the Bible (and the Holy Spirit) which gave them the interpretation..so how?

At the end of the day, the issue would boil down to the Reformed tenet of Sola Scriptura and the nature of private interpretation and the authority of the Church in regards to the Bible. Should there be a teaching office...a magisterium to decide over theological issues? Since the bible declares the Church as the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

What about the Oral Tradition of the Church, which has perpetuated the depositum fidei into the Church, through the apostolic college to teach and instruct generations of believers?

hmm...there is much to think about, even as a Protestant Christian. When one's philosphical premise crumbles, the entire structure falls, the foundation shaky. Then what..?

Crossing the tiber..?
 
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Rick Otto

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Excellent example, Sol!

If your empire is about to crumble, if you you can't beat 'em, convert - JOIN 'EM & make yourself their leader!
Then burn anybody that publishes the truth in the common language.
Since when did reality completely conform to logic?
If we could rely on logic to measure reality, we wouldn't need scripture.
Contradiction & paradox are not the measure of either truth or error. They address truth on different levels and in a different sense.
I am a good parent, & I am a bad parent.
Both are true at the same time, in different senses.
That they contradict each other doesn't make them any less true or meaningful.

How do we arrive at Christian unity in the face of denominationalism?
Well, "you can't get there from here" might be a good answer.
 
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BenDare

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Blackhawk said:
I think I said this before but...

No denomination I know thinks that they are the only true church. Some cults do. I am a Southern Baptist. WE believe that there is one universal church. I went to a Lutheran (missouri synod) college and that is what they believe also. Methodist, Presbyterians, Assemblies of God, Church of the Nazarene, and the list goes on and on. Catholics do not believe that they are the only true church either because they accept protestants as fellow Christians.

All denominations agree on certain essential doctrines. On the nonessential they do not. So denominational names make it easy to know how a church is different (in the nonessentials) than some other churches.

There is nothing wrong with this as long as we do not look at other denominations as not in the universal church or that we do not fellowship with these other denominations because they worship slightly different than we do.

blackhawk
Well said! The differences expressed in denominational statements of doctrine are important to the identity of the groups, but are very few in number and are far less important than the great body of beliefs shared with other believers. Such distinctions are important only to the ORGANIZATION of the groups. Churches use organization as a tool to efficiently fulfill their perceived function. This is the way human groups work best. Unanimous agreement equals efficient cooperative effort, and simply fight anyone who does not agree. BUT the Church is not just an organization. It is a living Body. When it functions as a body, its parts need and accept all of its parts. Doctrine is important, but our unity in not based on what we believe. It isaccomplished by the presence of the Spirit's Life within each part and making us truly one.
 
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