Luke 16:26 and the great "chasm/gulf".

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
How do others here view this "great chasm" shown in Luke 16:26?.

There is an interesting greek word used here that is only found this 1 time in the NT/NC.

I am thinking the english rendering of this word is more from the transliterated greek word "casma".

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:26
And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm/gulf hath been established.
So that those willing to cross-over hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying
 
Last edited:

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
It's there so that Lazarus can't comply with the rich man's request.
Who or what is Lazarus symbolizing in that parable in your view? Thanks
 
Upvote 0

Jpark

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2008
5,019
181
✟13,882.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I have a rather lenghthy study on this, what I call "Covenantle" parable in Luke 16.

There is an interesting greek word used here that is only found this 1 time in the NT/NC.
And this is why I am persuaded that Luke 16 has a deeper implication. :idea:
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Who or what is Lazarus symbolizing in that parable in your view? Thanks
I generally don't come at parables as though they are full blow allegories with everything being a direct representation of something else.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I generally don't come at parables as though they are full blow allegories with everything being a direct representation of something else.
Tis true.

Isaiah 28:11 And with stammering/deriding lip and in another tongue He shall speak to this people.

Ezekiel 17:2 Son of adam! propound thou a riddle and speak thou a proverb/04912 unto house of Israel

A view I have is that great chasm could be representing "FAITH" and Hebrews 11:29 brings that up concerning the OC Hebrews crossing the divided Red Sea. Thoughts?

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established so that those willing to cross-over<1224> hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry,
which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Tis true.
What is.

Jesus spoke many parables to the Judeans/Israelites He came to, which also was prophecied He would do in the OT/OT
Of course he told many parables, but parables aren't bound to work like tightly written allegories. Not everything in a parable has to have a corresponding one-to-one relationship in to something symbolised - that's not how they work.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
What is.


Of course he told many parables, but parables aren't bound to work like tightly written allegories. Not everything in a parable has to have a corresponding one-to-one relationship in to something symbolised - that's not how they work.
Thank you.....

I am gonna just lurk a bit here until more CF Christians respond as I do not want this to turn into personal debating between us....only 2 members have posted views here so far.......sigh

I pretty much gave my view of it here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7436472/#post54015965
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

wayseer

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2008
8,226
504
Maryborough, QLD, Australia
✟11,131.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I have a rather lenghthy study on this, what I call "Covenantle" parable in Luke 16.

There is an interesting greek word used here that is only found this 1 time in the NT/NC.

How do others here view this "great chasm" shown in Luke 16:26?.

I don't know what you are after but it seems pretty straight forward to me - there are some who will 'never' hear God's call on their life.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I don't know what you are after but it seems pretty straight forward to me - there are some who will 'never' hear God's call on their life.
:)
They may hear it, but doesn't mean they will understand or believe it [much like the Jews and Muslims of today]
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Verse 26 breaks with the parable with the words, 'Besides all this ..'

Even without the parable there was some chasm/gulf across which the rich man would never get - it seems his fate was firmly fixed.
I believe he may be signifying a High Priest or high ranked wealthy Jewish ruler or nobleman.

Question about the High Priest seeing Jesus coming on clouds of heaven


Matthew 26:63 and Jesus was silent.
And the Chief-priest answering said to Him "I adjure thee, by the living God, that thou mayest say to us, if thou art the Christ--the Son of God.'
64 Jesus Is saying to him "thou say,
moreover I am saying to ye, from present/now ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I thought I would carry this post I had on another thread to this to get more views.......:wave:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458535/#post54502564

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
When I first started translating Luke 16 and the rich-man/lazarus parable, I noticed the ISA Interlinear used the word "ferrying". I scratched my head for a minute as I have never seen it used in Bible versions, but sure enuf, when I look at a Lexicon and saw that is how it is used in the NT/NC, that is the meaning of it
idea.gif


Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yeselves 'a father we are having the Abraham'. For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God, out of the stones these, to raise-up children to the Abraham.

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry, which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

1276. diaperao dee-ap-er-ah'-o from 1223 and a derivative of the base of 4008; to cross entirely:--go over, pass (over), sail over.
4008. peran per'-an apparently accusative case of an obsolete derivative of peiro (to "pierce"); through (as adverb or preposition), i.e. across:--beyond, farther (other) side, over.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Irenaeus Against Heresies Book II Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning.
Ireneaeus, 120-202 AD, was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John.

1. The Lord has taught with very great fulness, that souls not only continue to exist, not by passing from body to body, but that they preserve the same form [in their separate state] as the body had to which they were adapted, and that they remember the deeds which they did in this state of existence, and from which they have now ceased,-in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of Abraham. In this account He states that Dives [=Latin for rich] knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him-[Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table. [He tells us] also of the answer given by Abraham, who was acquainted not only with what respected himself, but Dives also, and who enjoined those who did not wish to come into that place of torment to believe Moses and the prophets, and to receive the preaching of Him who was to rise again from the dead. By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognised, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham, and that each class of souls] receives a habitation such as it has deserved, even before the judgment.

ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Clement of Alexandria [A.D. 153-193-217] The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1

On the Resurrection. But he figuratively designates the vulgar rabble, attached to ephemeral pleasure, flourishing for a little, loving ornament, loving praise, and being everything but truth-loving, good for nothing but to be burned with fire. “There was a certain man,” said the Lord, narrating, “very rich, who was clothed in purple and scarlet,
enjoying himself splendidly every day.” This was the hay. “And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at the rich man’s gate, full of sores, desiring to be filled with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table.” This is the grass. Well, the rich man was punished in Hades, being made partaker of the fire; while the other flourished again in the Father’s bosom.

Tertullian A Treatise On The Soul [A.D. 145-220.]

In hell the soul of a certain man is in torment, punished in flames, suffering excruciating thirst, and imploring from the finger of a happier soul, for his tongue, the solace of a drop of water. Do you suppose that this end of the blessed poor man and the miserable rich man is only imaginary? Then why the name of Lazarus in this narrative, if the circumstance is not in (the category of) a real occurrence? But even if it is to be regarded as imaginary, it will still be a testimony to truth and reality. For unless the soul possessed corporeality, the image of a soul could not possibly contain a finger of a bodily substance; nor would the Scripture feign a statement about the limbs of a body, if these had no existence.

The Epistles Of Cyprian (A.D. 200-258) Epistle 54 To Cornelius, Concerning Fortunatus And Felicissimus, Or Against The Heretics

A good man out of the good treasure bringeth forth good things; and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.” Whence also that rich sinner who implores help from Lazarus, then laid in Abraham’s bosom, and established in a place of comfort, while he, writhing in torments, is consumed by the heats of burning flame, suffers most punishment of all parts of his body in his mouth and his tongue, because doubtless in his mouth and his tongue he had most sinned.

Methodius Fragments On The History Of Jonah (A.D. 260-312)

But souls, being rational bodies, are arranged by the Maker and Father of all things into members which are visible to reason, having received this impression. Whence, also, in Hades, as in the case of Lazarus and the rich man, they are spoken of as having a tongue, and a finger, and the other members; not as though they had with them another invisible body, but that the souls themselves, naturally, when entirely stripped of their covering, are such according to their essence.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
What I find odd about that parable is the rich man didn't break any laws etc.
He just ignored Lazarus, and that divided them. Why?
If he didn't break any laws, why is he in the predicament he finds himself? :confused: :wave:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,369
7,745
Canada
✟722,627.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
hmm .. all is one .. so the chasm is the result of the rich man's perception that he was better than lazarus . his suffering is a result of not loving his neighbour . but all is still one .. hmm ..
 
Upvote 0