Mother of Humanity??????????

You said several times that "God" can only refer to the whole Trinity. You also said that you believed that Jesus was God before He came to earth:
God is a Triune God..


You also made several other similar statements but I don't want to re-read the whole thread to find them for you.

If Jesus was "fully God before He became man" then logically that means that He was not "fully God" after He became man.
:confused: This makes no sense logically nor spiritually.

To which lionroar0, myself and others attempted to correct your view but you said that if we believed that Jesus was God and the Father was God and the Holy Spirit was God then we "believe in three Gods" (as you never stopped saying). So you made it very clear that you do not believe that Jesus is God, but may have been part of God in Heaven prior to and since His Incarnation.
:confused: This is your interpretation. Jesus is the God man conceived of the Father through the Holy Spirit and given His flesh through Mary.. I have never once stated that Christ Jesus is not Part of the Trinity .

You said that Mary was the Mother of the "earthly Jesus" as distinct from the "Word of God". This, of course, was the very same error of Nestorius and the reason for his objection to the use of the term Theotokos. There are not two Jesuses, there is One -- the God-Man
.
I said that Mary was the earthly Mother of Christ Jesus..
 
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Dorothea

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This is your interpretation. Jesus is the God man conceived of the Father through the Holy Spirit and given His flesh through Mary.. I have never once stated that Christ Jesus is not Part of the Trinity .


You said that Mary was the Mother of the "earthly Jesus" as distinct from the "Word of God". This, of course, was the very same error of Nestorius and the reason for his objection to the use of the term Theotokos. There are not two Jesuses, there is One -- the God-Man

I said that Mary was the earthly Mother of Christ Jesus..
The bolded is true. I don't believe you said that Christ wasn't part of the Trinity. What is confusing is your view that when you speak of Christ when on Earth, it sounds as if you are saying He was not (is not) fully God and fully man. If you are saying that Christ is fully God as well as fully man when he became incarnate by the Virgin Mary, then logically, she would be the mother of Christ (GOD and MAN) since He is both. His natures are inseparable. So, sure, Mary was the earthily mother of Christ. She was a human on earth. But she also is the Mother of God because she gave birth to God the Second Person in the Trinity. This does not mean she is the mother of God the Father or God the HS, but the mother of Christ God the Second Person in the Trinity.

The confusion I have is whether you can see that these three persons can be present in locations without the other two, but still one? Such as at Christ's baptism and when He hung on the Cross.
 
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PilgrimToChrist

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I have no problem with Mary being called Mother of God I just make sure to follow it up with "but she is not the Mother of the Holy Spirit or the Father" just to clarify for people not familiar with the history of the term.

When you say that God became Man, do you clarify and say that "Well, only the Son, Jesus, became incarnate; the Father and the Holy Spirit did not" or do you assume that people know that Jesus was the one who came to earth and took on human nature and died for our sins?
 
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Livindesert

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When you say that God became Man, do you clarify and say that "Well, only the Son, Jesus, became incarnate; the Father and the Holy Spirit did not" or do you assume that people know that Jesus was the one who came to earth and took on human nature and died for our sins?

So far I have not had the need to clarify that but if I do I will be sure to let you know.:)
 
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narnia59

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So far I have not had the need to clarify that but if I do I will be sure to let you know.:)
I have had that need, in speaking with a young Jewish girl who professed that Jesus cannot be God because he died on the cross, therefore God died. That explanation is not necessary for those who have a correct understanding of the Trinity and know the three persons are truly three distinct persons.

Likewise, for those who understand the Trinity correctly, the need to explain the term "Mother of God" should not exist.

It has always been interesting to me that aside from non-Orthodox and non-Catholic Christians, the other groups who object most vehemently to the term "Mother of God" for Mary is the Muslims and the Jews. Their reasonong of course is because they do not believe that Jesus is God.
 
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The bolded is true. I don't believe you said that Christ wasn't part of the Trinity. What is confusing is your view that when you speak of Christ when on Earth, it sounds as if you are saying He was not (is not) fully God and fully man. If you are saying that Christ is fully God as well as fully man when he became incarnate by the Virgin Mary, then logically, she would be the mother of Christ (GOD and MAN) since He is both. His natures are inseparable. So, sure, Mary was the earthily mother of Christ. She was a human on earth. But she also is the Mother of God because she gave birth to God the Second Person in the Trinity. This does not mean she is the mother of God the Father or God the HS, but the mother of Christ God the Second Person in the Trinity.

The confusion I have is whether you can see that these three persons can be present in locations without the other two, but still one? Such as at Christ's baptism and when He hung on the Cross.
How do you figure that the Father nor the Holy Spirit was not present at the cross nor the baptism? Please explain this more to me.
 
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prodromos

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I have already said yes and that He was God before He ever became Human. Mary was not the mother of the word before He became flesh. Therefore she is the earthly mother of Christ Jesus .
The Word did not have a mother before His incarnation, but He does now and always will have Mary as His mother. The difficulty you seem to be having is the fact that while every other person who has been born did not exist as a person before their conception, Christ did exist before His conception. You seem to believe that this precludes Mary from being mother to God the Word yet have not explained why.

John
 
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Dorothea

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How do you figure that the Father nor the Holy Spirit was not present at the cross nor the baptism? Please explain this more to me.
Well, if you had an icon of the Baptism you'd see how it works. :p Christ is in the river Jordan. Above His head is the HS (form of a dove), and above the HS is God the Father (who spoke from heaven about His Son). Christ hung on the Cross, while The Father and Holy Spirit were there, but did not hang on the cross with Him.
 
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The Word did not have a mother before His incarnation, but He does now and always will have Mary as His mother. The difficulty you seem to be having is the fact that while every other person who has been born did not exist as a person before their conception, Christ did exist before His conception. You seem to believe that this precludes Mary from being mother to God the Word yet have not explained why.

John
She is the earthly mother of Jesus.. The Godman.
 
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Well, if you had an icon of the Baptism you'd see how it works. :p Christ is in the river Jordan. Above His head is the HS (form of a dove), and above the HS is God the Father (who spoke from heaven about His Son). Christ hung on the Cross, while The Father and Holy Spirit were there, but did not hang on the cross with Him.
Okay makes sense
 
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seashale76

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Well, if you had an icon of the Baptism you'd see how it works. :p Christ is in the river Jordan. Above His head is the HS (form of a dove), and above the HS is God the Father (who spoke from heaven about His Son). Christ hung on the Cross, while The Father and Holy Spirit were there, but did not hang on the cross with Him.

This youtube vid has this icon in it (it features a Greek song about Theophany too- I like it). :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ElkGTglrA8
 
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Anglian

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I also said she is the earthly mother of Christ. :) Which I have been saying all along. Do you believe that when one is drawn to Christ and are His that all are brothers and sisters in the Lord?
Christ is 100% God and 100% man, therefore she is the earthly mother of God.


peace,

Anglian
 
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