A Question of Curiosity Concerning Gender

Machachachi

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What do the fathers say, the purpose of gender is? (I would have used the word sex, but that would have led to misunderstandings.)

I mean the scripture said there is no longer male or female. But how is that brought into Tradition? What does being a male mean? Or female mean? What about those born with types of intersexed/hermaphroditic related conditions, how does the church take care of them?

I only ask because I am horrible about researching such things effectively, and cannot find the answers myself.
 

Knee V

It's phonetic.
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What do the fathers say, the purpose of gender is? (I would have used the word sex, but that would have led to misunderstandings.)

I mean the scripture said there is no longer male or female. But how is that brought into Tradition? What does being a male mean? Or female mean? What about those born with types of intersexed/hermaphroditic related conditions, how does the church take care of them?

I only ask because I am horrible about researching such things effectively, and cannot find the answers myself.

I don't remember exactly where I heard this from, so I can't give an exact reference, and it may not be entirely accurate.

With that said...

I had read the idea that God created us male and female knowing that we would sin and not live forever. So instead of making one huge population all at one time, he created us to reproduce over time. Also, the marriage relationship foreshadows the relationship between Christ and His Church.

In addition to that, through the Virgin Birth, Christ was able to derive His humanity without the necessity of the two genders coming together, giving substance to Paul's claim of there being "neither male nor female", tearing down the wall of separation between the two.

So take that for what it's worth, I suppose.
 
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rusmeister

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I've been finding myself slowly dropping off these boards for a long time - I only respond now when there's something special I can contribute from what I have learned.

The word "sex" is the right word and the word "gender" is simply the wrong word. Just make the context clear enough so that no one of any intelligence could seriously take you as talking about marital bedtime activities. If you say, "the sexes", it is quite clear. If you say "the sex of the child", ditto.

The word gender is one of the means by which all of the modern attacks on sexual morality are made possible - because gender really IS a social construct, that can vary from society to society. Sex is an objective reality, that cannot be.

The Church takes care of all, male and female, those born with crippling conditions and those that through illness or fantasy assisted by propaganda imagine themselves to be other than what they are. How? You need to clarify your question. It is far too vague. It asks for the explanations of all the canons, the Church fathers, etc. It's like saying, "How does physics work?"
 
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MariaRegina

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I've been finding myself slowly dropping off these boards for a long time - I only respond now when there's something special I can contribute from what I have learned.

The word "sex" is the right word and the word "gender" is simply the wrong word. Just make the context clear enough so that no one of any intelligence could seriously take you as talking about marital bedtime activities. If you say, "the sexes", it is quite clear. If you say "the sex of the child", ditto.

The word gender is one of the means by which all of the modern attacks on sexual morality are made possible - because gender really IS a social construct, that can vary from society to society. Sex is an objective reality, that cannot be.

The Church takes care of all, male and female, those born with crippling conditions and those that through illness or fantasy assisted by propaganda imagine themselves to be other than what they are. How? You need to clarify your question. It is far too vague. It asks for the explanations of all the canons, the Church fathers, etc. It's like saying, "How does physics work?"

I remember studying sex and gender in linguistics. And it was so confusing the way the textbook put it. So politically correct! And yet, linguists are not supposed to be politically correct prescriptionists, but are only supposed to describe the language changes. Go figure.

Thanks for your comment Rus.
 
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Machachachi

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I've been finding myself slowly dropping off these boards for a long time - I only respond now when there's something special I can contribute from what I have learned.

The word "sex" is the right word and the word "gender" is simply the wrong word. Just make the context clear enough so that no one of any intelligence could seriously take you as talking about marital bedtime activities. If you say, "the sexes", it is quite clear. If you say "the sex of the child", ditto.

The word gender is one of the means by which all of the modern attacks on sexual morality are made possible - because gender really IS a social construct, that can vary from society to society. Sex is an objective reality, that cannot be.

The Church takes care of all, male and female, those born with crippling conditions and those that through illness or fantasy assisted by propaganda imagine themselves to be other than what they are. How? You need to clarify your question. It is far too vague. It asks for the explanations of all the canons, the Church fathers, etc. It's like saying, "How does physics work?"

I understand that there are implications to using the word gender. I used it because if you transposed the words in my original question and topic title, the implication would have been focused on sex as an action, since that is how it would be used in the common vernacular. Forgive me for stepping on your proverbial toes.

On the other hand. I believe the specifics of my question were quite clear. You answered half of it quite well. The other half I can specify hopefully.

Why does Scripture say that there is no separation between male and female anymore, but Tradition has roles delineated by sex? This is not really the broad base question I was hoping for, but I think this can be answered easily enough. I am mainly concerned with how does the Orthodox church, teach this lack of separation, what does it mean for the church? I am not concerned with the fact only men can be priests, that is not the question I am having. I felt the need to clarify that, since the question is often veiled like that. It is a difficult and large question, and I'm not asking you to answer it all at once, I would really just like to be pointed in the right direction at the very least.
 
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rusmeister

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The best answer I could give (from Dr Stupid) is that the context of the Scripture you refer to is in the Kingdom (come). It speaks of ontological equality - but not of identicality/interchangeability, in the manner that equality is usually understood today.
But you should ask a priest or other trained seminarian. Online you could e-mail Fr John (Matusiak) at oca.org and post the answer here. They might even post it on their Q+A page...
 
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HandmaidenOfGod

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I'd have to agree with Rusmeister. I think what the Bible means is that God loves us all the same, regardless of sex, race, ethnic background, color of hair, warts on the nose, etc. His love, grace, and mercy are available to us all, regardless of who we are. This is what it means to be "equal" in Christ.

However, equal love does not mean identical role in God's kingdom.

Just as you need a transmission and an engine to run a car, that does not mean they have the same purpose. They are both equally important but have different roles.

The same can be said for man and woman. Both are equally important and loved equally in God's eyes, but they have different roles in God's kingdom.

Make sense?
 
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