Those under grace only teach sinners, not others under grace

stranger · Jun 10, 2009

The NEW Covenant of Grace :-

Heb 8;11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Thus sinners have no right before God to teach sinners, it is the task of saints under grace, not sinners.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil

The teachings of sinners are thus what has divided Christianity and made it apostate from scripture ... what surprises me is that Christians refuse reproof t scripture of Jesus and the saints although they know religion must largely be false because it is divided :-

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If one finds disagreement with another then seek to reprove to more scripture , because scripture is not subject to private differences in interpretation, but qualifies itself , thus use EVERY word of God, not just bits here and there :-

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

To stay divided is to be sure that one or BOTH are following Satan , God gives only one truth to those fit to teach, the saints :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;

OzSpen · Jun 12, 2009

Stranger,

Why have you come to another thread to preach your confusing and divisive doctrine?

stranger · Jun 12, 2009

OzSpen said:
Stranger,

Why have you come to another thread to preach your confusing and divisive doctrine?

It is not my fault that you find scripture confusing... simply pray to God and meditate upon it and you too will come tosee that it is clear and true and ALL fits together as one truth ... Listen to the saints and realise that they alone offer the truth through scripture until one is baptised of the spirit and God teaches one Himself ...

I am not preaching any doctrine but simply pointing out what the scripture says... God's truth is not divisive, but the teaching of doctrines by sinners divi9ded modern Christianity... the scripture alone can reprove sinners to believe one truth in the absence of saints able to do so more directly.

The new covenant states explicitly that those under grace will not teach each other , so read what the saints say ... for myself I simply point at what the saints say, and it seems bizarre that you claim that the word of God is divisive... it is uniting in one truth, designed to reprove people who decided what to believe by listening to sinners [of which there are countless many in this world preachingand teaching diverse doctrines] ... thus reprove to the scriptures of the saints as I try to do , or continue a sinner, its your choice... but note that scripture is NOT there for interpretation to fit the divided teachings, dogmas, and doctrines of sinners , it is the united single truth of God from many saints and prophets and from Jesus himself ... read it all, study, meditate in every phrase and understand it BEFORE deciding what to believe ... do not listen to sinners, listen to the scripture ... I only point out some of the phrases which show the divided teachings of modern Christianity for what the are , a divided house cannot stand as Jesus has said , it is obvious really, there is only one truth of God ,and one cannot find it by ignoring any part of scripture as both Christianity and Judaism have come to do already... read it all , understand, and reprove belief to it ...

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

OzSpen · Jun 12, 2009

Stranger,

It is not my fault that you find scripture confusing... simply pray to God and meditate upon it and you too will come tosee that it is clear and true and ALL fits together as one truth ... Listen to the saints and realise that they alone offer the truth through scripture until one is baptised of the spirit and God teaches one Himself ...

I am not preaching any doctrine but simply pointing out what the scripture says..

I have shown you on another thread that your false doctrine about Hebrews 8:11 is refuted by Hebrews 5:14. It is you who is distorting the Scriptures.

stranger · Jun 13, 2009

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

You are asserting that the saints and Jesus and the prophets are not sufficiently guided by the spirit to discuss the truth with sinners ?

I'm sorry my friend but it is you who have mistaken them , not me... and rhetoric is of no use here , nor is appealing to the arguments and teachings of sinners abounding in divided modern religion.

Use only the words of God to reprove ideas gained from sinners.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

OzSpen · Jun 13, 2009

Stranger,

You are asserting that the saints and Jesus and the prophets are not sufficiently guided by the spirit to discuss the truth with sinners ?

I'm sorry my friend but it is you who have mistaken them , not me... and rhetoric is of no use here , nor is appealing to the arguments and teachings of sinners abounding in divided modern religion.

It is you who has wrongly interpreted Heb. 8:11, without taking into account the context of Heb. 5:12.

stranger · Jun 14, 2009

Heb 8:8-12 is a re-statement of the new covenant given to Israel explicitly in Jer 31:31-34 ...

that is its main context , a repeat of the new covenant between God and His people Israel because He will make His prophecy about His chosen nation come true , not for their sake, but for His sake , because He has said it and none can stop it coming true.

It states explicitly that those under grace will NOT be taught by those under grace , because God will teach them Himself , a remnant of those whose fathers broke the old covenant ...

Now please explain how that is nullified in your mind.

Alternatively just read how the remnant of Israel become the kings and priests of the kingdom and thus later are responsible for the salvation of countless amny of all nations [Rev 7:9-10]

Thus the few who find the strait narrow way in this life in turn save the many later under the rulershiop and high priesthood of Jesus Christ in the kingdom come at last to all men , alomst all of whom, bara few[Matt 7:14] go by teh broad way, and cannot live again until after the Millennium [many of whom never even knew of Jesus in this life, many of whom where stillborn or died young with no chance of redemption in this life or at Jesus' return whatsoever!]

stranger · Jun 14, 2009

I cannot explain why the previously given link did not work ... but this one seems to be working :-

http://www.christianforums.com/t6466366/

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7375857

OzSpen · Jun 14, 2009

Stranger,

I wrote:

It is you who has wrongly interpreted Heb. 8:11, without taking into account the context of Heb. 5:12.

You don't want to answer this, so you go into your "new covenant" expose which avoids the meaning of Heb. 5:12:

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God (Heb. 5:12 ESV)

The new covenant requires that teachers need to be taught, even the basic principles of the oracles of God.

stranger · Jun 14, 2009

OzSpen said:
Stranger,
I wrote:
You don't want to answer this, so you go into your "new covenant" expose which avoids the meaning of Heb. 5:12:

I have tried to address your quote, but you haven;t explained what point it is you are trying to make ... I have stated manytimes that I regard bible study as including all scripture, far from your weird claim that I am ignoring any of it ... so please explain your point, I clearly do not see your problem as yet.

The new covenant requires that teachers need to be taught, even the basic principles of the oracles of God.

Yes prospective saints need to be taught the scripture BY SAINTS whilst still sinners , so that they repent, are baptised of the spirit , and enter baptism of 'fire' [trial of one's faith in Jesus by Satan]...

It is not possible for sinners to teach the truth because they cannot know it without spirit baptism [John 16:13]

Thus the countless [hundreds of thousands] of sinners teaching diverse denomination, cults, sects full of non-scriptural doctrines and dogmas have a very differenet agaenda nd purpose by God than the saints teaching His truth given them by Him alone ...

It is thus impotant if one wants the truth to note that teh new covanant says it is with Israel's descendants who are now taken as the people of God and forgiven the sins of the past by which their father's brooke the old covenant ... and it is important to know that ALL sinners make themselves servants of the devil by their sin , so those who want to be Jesus' servants have to give up sin, obey him instead as Lord, and love perefctly, no sin, no unlovingness any more to anyone... Love of god is to obey him, sin is disobedience to God ... it is not that hard a concept , andteacheds one nOT to learn from men, but learn from scripture to REPENT sin [water baptism as sign that one has repented and turned from following Satan as a sinner] , which then leads on to spirit baptism to know all truth of God and then be able to face Satan and not be tempted to sin again, to become a saint ad so follow Jesus , as a perfect image of the son of God , by ebing loving, not sinning against God any more.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

stranger · Jun 21, 2009

Isaiah 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

Jesus Cares · Aug 13, 2009

Brothers in Christ,

Consider the following by which we all ought to live, and then reprove your brother through the gifts of the spirit that God has given you.

Love - "And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him" (1 John 4:16). Through Jesus Christ, our greatest goal is to do all things in love. "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails" (1 Corinthians 13:4-8).

Joy - "The joy of the Lord is your strength" (Nehemiah 8:10). "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2).

Peace - "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). "May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit" (Romans 15:13).

Patience We are "strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness" (Colossians 1:11). "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" (Ephesians 4:2).

Gentleness We should live "in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left" (2 Corinthians 6:6-7).

Goodness "Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power" (2 Thessalonians 1:11). "For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth" (Ephesians 5:9).

Faithfulness "O Lord, you are my God; I will exalt you, I will praise your name; for you have done wonderful things; your counsels of old are faithfulness and truth" (Isaiah 25:1). "I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith" (Ephesians 3:16-17).

Meekness "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted" (Galatians 6:1). "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" (Ephesians 4:2).

Self control "But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love" (2 Peter 1:5-7).

drew-mcguire · Oct 9, 2009

How does either of you know which is the right for the scriptures? neither one know how each other applys it tohis/her life? to me by just looking it seems your already not applying correctly since some are even casting stones by say YOU have it wrong and YOU dont understand the context. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE? if he/she has it wrong then its his/her problem with God, saying that it is VERY dangerous for a man to twist the word of God to decieve another. The old testament they would kill a man for doing such

OzSpen · Oct 9, 2009

Drew,

drew-mcguire said:
How does either of you know which is the right for the scriptures? neither one know how each other applys it tohis/her life? to me by just looking it seems your already not applying correctly since some are even casting stones by say YOU have it wrong and YOU dont understand the context. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE? if he/she has it wrong then its his/her problem with God, saying that it is VERY dangerous for a man to twist the word of God to decieve another. The old testament they would kill a man for doing such

Exegesis of the biblical text in its historical and cultural setting is the first priority. Application to one's own life may vary from person to person, but that must not be confused with the exegetical meaning of the text in context.

When somebody has gaps in his/her exegesis, we have a biblical responsibility to correct this as all Christian leaders must be those who are "rightly handling the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15 ESV).

You ask: "Why are you to judge?" As a Christian leader I have a responsibility before God for upholding sound doctrine. What would you say to the apostle Paul when he exhorted Timothy, "Teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing" (1 Tim. 6:2b-3)?

Are you going to tell Paul, who wrote these infallible words, that he is judging? Of course he is judging by correcting false doctrine. That is what I as a Christian must ever be alert to do.

So was Paul to Titus judging? "He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it" (Titus 1:9 ESV). That sounds awfully judgmental by your definition. But it is the infallible Scripture and it is what all good pastor-teachers must do: "Give instruction in sound doctrine" and rebuke those who don't do it.

Warm, non-judgmental fuzzies when there is incorrect exegesis, is not God's way of dealing with the situation.

Sincerely, Spencer

Son of Israel · Oct 10, 2009

Hi Stranger,
We Christians are the Israel of God of whom Heb 8 is confirming. We are the Kingdom of God. We are filled with the Revealing Word, even the person of Jesus Christ in us who Reveals all things. Yes, we receive Him by Grace. If we are called as teachers, then we teach all who are teachable, both those in the body and those out of the body. Eventually, As a new Christian person matures, they come off the milk Taught from their Israel Mother, who is "the Israel Bride of Christ", which is, the "Church". It is THEN that they, in their maturity, go forth guided and taught directly by that Spirit of Christ Resurrected WITHIN them. It isn't an automatic thing, for WE, as the Body of Christ, teach and minister unto our little ones BY HIS SPIRIT.
Stranger I find no fault with you except that you appear to put the confirmation of Hebrews (quoting fulfillment of Jeremiah 31; 31-34) yet still off into the future as do the dispensationalists and millenialists. This idea comes from those theologians in the churches of whom you confess are responsible for the varying beliefs and false doctrines of the numerous sects in the world. If God is giving you to know Him without a teacher of man, then why do you accept man's teaching by putting the salvation of Israel into the future and referring to them who reject him as "Israel"??
"For they are not all Israel which are of Israel".
My brethren in Christ are the only true Israelites. They have received Christ for 2000 years in His Kingdom and have been ruling and reigning with Him since then... THAT ALONE is what makes them Israelites, for they are the Bride of Christ, clothed with the Sun, Crowned with a crown of twelve stars, and pregnant with the man-child who is Christ in us, our Hope of Glory. I am very jealous of the Name of God and for those upon whom His Name is called, and they are those baptized into Christ by the water and fire of His Holy Spirit. No one else is "Israel", though they may appropriate that name unto themselves.
This is from the Lord, who speaks unto them, from the least unto the greatest.
Blessings forever,
Son of Israel

A Brother In Christ · Oct 20, 2009

all has sinned and comes short... yes we know this...
BUT NOT all agree to this

Matt 9:13 states He did not come to save the self righteous but sinners

we are to teach grace to believers.... for this is how we mature... 2 peter 3:18

stranger · Jan 3, 2010

2Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

say nothing about teaching grace

Indeed the new covenant itself tells all that God alone teaches mankind and is very explicit about who is under grace , the saints, not any who is still a sinner ...

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

You really need to read what God says and stop listening to divided religion and its soothsayings... if you want to quote scripture ... you made a lot of errors, look up your own quotes...

stranger · Jan 3, 2010

Son of Israel said:
Hi Stranger,
We Christians are the Israel of God of whom Heb 8 is confirming. ...
Son of Israel

Hmmm... read it again my friend, God is very explicit that the new covenant applies only to those whose fathers broke the old covenant [Heb 8:8-12]

You perhaps do not even know who the House of israel were, it is all written in the OT and NT... ONE truth of God , unlike modern divided religious private interpretations which are easily dispelled by actually reading ALL the words of God, not just a few ...

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

stranger · Jan 3, 2010

Jesus Cares said:
Brothers in Christ,

Consider the following by which we all ought to live, and then reprove your brother through the gifts of the spirit that God has given you.

Love - "And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him" (1 John 4:16). Through Jesus Christ, our greatest goal is to do all things in love. "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails" (1 Corinthians 13:4-8).

Joy - "The joy of the Lord is your strength" (Nehemiah 8:10). "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2).

Peace - "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). "May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit" (Romans 15:13).

Patience We are "strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness" (Colossians 1:11). "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" (Ephesians 4:2).

Gentleness We should live "in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left" (2 Corinthians 6:6-7).

Goodness "Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power" (2 Thessalonians 1:11). "For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth" (Ephesians 5:9).

Faithfulness "O Lord, you are my God; I will exalt you, I will praise your name; for you have done wonderful things; your counsels of old are faithfulness and truth" (Isaiah 25:1). "I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith" (Ephesians 3:16-17).

Meekness "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted" (Galatians 6:1). "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" (Ephesians 4:2).

Self control "But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love" (2 Peter 1:5-7).

It's no use talking about love most people just cannot do, satan succeeds in tempting almost all men to sin until death , modern religion even fould a way to pretend it is OK to do so , so long as one comes and puts money in the box every week...

The truth is FEW will stop sinning [Matt 7:14] in this life, few will be takemn by Jesus at his return as he says he will NOT take sinners

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

What use quoting some scriptures if you ignore the FOUNDATION OF GOD , to stop unlovingness, to stop sinning, and obey Jesus as Lord , do the love he commands... only the few saints will doso, Jesus says how many , Jude 1:14 confirms Enoch, tens of thousands, Jesus states more explicitly 144 thousands of tribal isarel [Rev 7:3-8]

AND that the MANY are saved LATER [Rev 7:9-10] . thus after the second resurrection, once the kingdom has been set up by the FEW and jesus in the new earth :-

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

A Brother In Christ · Jan 5, 2010

stranger said:
2Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

say nothing about teaching grace

Indeed the new covenant itself tells all that God alone teaches mankind and is very explicit about who is under grace , the saints, not any who is still a sinner ...

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

You really need to read what God says and stop listening to divided religion and its soothsayings... if you want to quote scripture ... you made a lot of errors, look up your own quotes...

So how does one do eph 3:16-20 without knowing what grace is or how to recieve it

Those under grace only teach sinners, not others under grace

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