Dinosauria is the suborder of all dinosaurs
While Neornithes is the subclass of all modern birds
So birds are not considered dinosaurs, it would be like classifing mamals as fish since we evolved from them.
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Some facts and my conclusion.
- Thread starter Freysinn
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Dinosauria is the suborder of all dinosaurs
While Neornithes is the subclass of all modern birds
So birds are not considered dinosaurs, it would be like classifing mamals as fish since we evolved from them.
- Jun 18, 2006
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Shades of prescient quotes!
I'll bet 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't mention the Rapture either, does it?
And 1 John 5:7 doesn't mention the Trinity either, does it?
But you can be sure Isaiah 40:22 mentions a flat earth, right?
Just out of curiosity, how long do you intend to seek?Ok, interesting storyYou may just be missing out on a great future as fantasy novelist by hanging around here.
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Agonaces of Susa
Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
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That is not a fact. In fact it is utter nonsense.
Vertibrates such as fishes and dinosaurs have been found deeper than any bacteria.
Fish have been found two and a half miles below the mudline: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119706844/abstract
Dinosaurs have been found 2256 meters below the mudline: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060425091449.htm
But the deepest bacteria only 4000 feet deep: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/news/news/492/
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But you're the one who brought in the issue of the physical by noting plants and animals. If you don't want to put man in with plants and animals then I suggest you not include him under a classification of life that uses physical attributes as a tool of classification.
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Good --- using evolutionary philosophy, I'll consider it easy to explained.
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BigBadWlf
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Incorrect.
cyanobacteria or "blue-green algae," have left a fossil record that extends into the Precambrian - the oldest cyanobacteria fossils known are 3.5 billion years old, among the oldest fossils currently known.
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Agonaces of Susa
Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
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What scientific fact do you claim is incorrect?
So what you're saying is cyanobacteria haven't evolved even a single cell in 3.5 billion years. Interesting.
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Agonaces of Susa said:
Just to keep things on the up-and-up here, Freysinn was talking about sedimentary layers, as in,
"Fact: as we go further down in sedimentary layers we find simpler organisms and the closer you get to the top of the layers the more the fossils resemble modern animals."
whereas you've ignore this important qualification and linked to a resource dealing with igneous rock.
"Scientists have discovered bacteria in a hole drilled more than 4000 feet deep in volcanic rock in Hawaii, in an environment that could be very similar to the conditions on Mars and other planets. Professor Martin Fisk, from Oregon State University and who led the research, said 'the latest discovery is one of the deepest drill holes in which scientists have discovered living organisms encased within volcanic rock'."
Igneous rock is NOT the same as sedimentary rock.
A beginners mistake I'm sure, but a crucial one nonetheless.
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Agonaces of Susa
Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
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FYI igneous rocks are below all sedimentary layers.
A beginner's mistake I'm sure.
But since we're going to selectively ignore the fact that igneous rocks are found below sediments then I guess we can talk about the footprints of Homo sapiens sapiens in Cambrian strata.
"Again on 1st June 1968, William Meister was climbing a cliff searching for trilobite fossils in the Wheeler Formation in Utah. He broke off a 5 cm thick lump of rock that split open in his hand revealing trilobite fossils embedded in the heel of a sandal print that had toe impressions poking over the edge. He called in Dr. Clifford Burdick, a consulting geologist who found several more sandal prints in the shaly limestone, and the footprints of barefoot children, one with a trilobite in the instep." -- Barry Setterfield, geologist, June 1998
"... we could also consider the shoe print, you know, that was found near Antelope Springs Utah by William Meister. And he found that in the year 1968. He was a researcher, a collector of fossils, and he was breaking open pieces of slate rock at this place Antelope Springs and when he broke open one piece of rock he found a shoe print. You know, my coauthor Richard Thompson went to visit William Meister in Utah and he was able to see this specimen, he was able to take photographs of it, and we did a computer analysis, and we showed that the shape of this impression in the rock is exactly like that of a shoe print. And if you look at your shoe, at the bottom of your shoe, you can usually see where your heel is worn down in a certain place, so this print had that same feature in it and also crushed in the middle of the foot print was the fossil of a trilobyte. Now a trilobyte is a shellfish that existed about 500 million years ago in what's called the Cambrian Period." -- Michael A. Cremo, author, March 19th 2008
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Naraoia
Apprentice Biologist
Moles... sandfish... prairie dogs...
Bacteria in the stratosphere...
So, well, no
And that statement has no factual content that I know of.
Mudskippers, climbing perch, walking catfish...
But whales, seals and manatees do. I don't suppose you're trying to imply that horses are more complex than whales.
Hehe, in a way, yes...
1. Bacteria
2. Archaea
3. Eukaryotes
Can you give empirical support for the claims I bolded?
Depends on which school of taxonomy you subscribe to. Under phylogenetic systematics (cladistics), birds are dinosaurs, just as every organism belongs to all taxa its ancestors belonged to.
There are no suborders and classes in phylogenetic systematics.
And mammals are fish, because they descended from fish - more specifically, lobe-finned fish. They are vertebrates, deuterostomes, animals and eukaryotes for the same reason.
[EDIT: holy spliceosome, I think I'm never going to link to the NCBI taxonomy browser for classification again. At first glance, the classification of mammals that I originally linked here seemed like a pretty accurate and up to date one. Then I looked more closely, and found that they actually use higher-level classifications that go against current consensus. So... yeah, I learned something again: take their disclaimer (essentially, "don't use us as a source on taxonomy") seriously. Nevertheless, the only problem with the lineage for mammals is "Coelomata", the rest still stands AFAIK.]
Oh, and don't let AV play his semantic games with you. He knows perfectly well that in everyday usage, a robin is not a dinosaur, but he happily conflates everyday usage with modern scientific terminology to make a point
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And to explain: The title of the igneous rock panel above, which I've boxed in green, "LAVA: EXTRUSIVE SURFACE FLOWS" refers to igneous rock (lava in this case) that flows above the Earth's surface through volcanic action. ↓SEE ANIMATION BELOW ↓ And because it flows above the Earth's surface it covers whatever composed the surface, which would include any metamorphic, igneous, AND sedimentary rock previous laid down, plus everything else that lies underneath.
Of course I'm presuming you understand the concepts of, above and below, and over and under. It's like spreading peanut butter on a slice of bread. If you lay the bread on your kitchen counter and then spread the peanut butter on its upper surface---that's the one facing up---the peanut butter would be above the bread.
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Washington provides an excellent overview of extruded igneous formations that form flows, dykes, sills, etc. Igneous rocks occur above, below and within sedimentary formations. Many are observable on the periphery of plutons through-out the pacific northwest.
I am most familiar with the plutons in the Canadian shield as well as those plutons in southwest England in Devon and Cornwall.
Igneous rocks occurring within sedimentary layers can be observed in and around the Cascades; particularly Mount Masama and Mt. St. Helens. They are characterised by metamorphic boundaries.
In addition, the Meister Footprint has been thoroughly debunked and shown to be an elementary mistake made by those persons with presuppositions.
It is interesting that a trilobite would be found within the sole mark (no pun intended for my geology friends!) when trilobites resided in a shallow marine environment (5 to 10 metre depth). The trilobite fossil exhibits no deformation (being crushed) by the footprint and that it would be unlikely that a foot(print) would impact a trilobite without it swimming away.
The fracture set observed in the specimen is known as spalling.
Unfortunately, this supposed footprint has taken on significant religiosity. It is unfortunate because to understand why this is not a footprint requires significant geologic knowledge............something that cannot be gained from a forum.
M
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