Are the Elect the Only Saved Souls?

Albion

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They are the only souls that have been assured of salvation but they are not the only ones that shall be saved. After all, what is the purpose of an elect. Why go through this existance if not to serve Him in sharing His Word with others?

It's generally agreed that the Elect glorify God by living Christlike lives. It is not the case that they exist only to evangelize. However, it is indeed necessary that there be evalgelization, for this is the way that the Elect have the Gospel brought to them, receive Faith, and so are saved.
 
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brinny

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Originally Posted by 1whirlwind
They are the only souls that have been assured of salvation but they are not the only ones that shall be saved. After all, what is the purpose of an elect. Why go through this existance if not to serve Him in sharing His Word with others?

It's generally agreed that the Elect glorify God by living Christlike lives. It is not the case that they exist only to evangelize. However, it is indeed necessary that there be evalgelization, for this is the way that the Elect have the Gospel brought to them, receive Faith, and so are saved.

indeed, and amen.
 
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1whirlwind

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But you did mean to say that they have yet to appear, right?


No. I believe they/we are here now...born in the last generation to serve our Father.

Very well, we just have totally different idea about that. It's more or less a POV associated with Charles Taze Russell and the Jehovah's Witnesses

Are we sure that we are thinking of the same thing when using the word "Elect?" Normally--and with Calvin whom you referred to earlier-it menas those chosen for salvation, not tapped for some special assignment, etc.


I see the elect as both. Called to serve Him.
 
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1whirlwind

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Whirlwind I can see where you might be coming from.

Mt 25 talks of the wise virgins and the unwise,together with a verse from S of S indicating that not only will the Bride be at the Marriage feast but also the brides maids in waiting.
Am I on the right track?

In a way. All the virgins loved Him and yet some fell away at the last. But, consider too all those that did not love Him for they were raised Hindu, Buddist, Muslim, etc....or by atheist parents...for whatever reason they were not taught of Him. However, they lived righteous lives. They are not saved, for that path is only through Him, but nor are they condemned. They will be taught during the millennium.
 
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brinny

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In a way. All the virgins loved Him and yet some fell away at the last. But, consider too all those that did not love Him for they were raised Hindu, Buddist, Muslim, etc....or by atheist parents...for whatever reason they were not taught of Him. However, they lived righteous lives. They are not saved, for that path is only through Him, but nor are they condemned. They will be taught during the millennium.

I missed that. Where is that written?
 
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Albion

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No. I believe they/we are here now...born in the last generation to serve our Father.


Am I correct to assume that this is the case because you also believe that we are into the final days? I believe that the Bible speaks of Election in previous times also, as even Jesus himself testified that some who followed him were among the Elect (John 10).


I see the elect as both. Called to serve Him.
I won't argue that, but what I was getting at was whether you though being "elect" meant ONLY that they were chosen for some service and not predestined for salvation.
 
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1whirlwind

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We do not know who the elect are. God knows who will love hIm with all of their hearts and who will not. He really means it when He says He will not always strive with man. He also is in the waiting mode, as He was with with Noah, untill all those HE intended to save, got safely onto the ark. It is so now. After all have come under His wing, his beloved children, all hell will break loose, so to speak.

As we read, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. It is written.


I agree Brinny. All the elect will be sealed before His wrath is spilled. But, of the many that shall endure the wrath...none are condemned to eternal death. They will be taught during the millennium.
 
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1whirlwind

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It's generally agreed that the Elect glorify God by living Christlike lives. It is not the case that they exist only to evangelize. However, it is indeed necessary that there be evalgelization, for this is the way that the Elect have the Gospel brought to them, receive Faith, and so are saved.

I very much agree. He is our example in all things. We should live as He did...follow in His footsteps. We, as His elect are His witnesses. What do witnesses do? We witness for Him not only in how we live our lives but God uses us for more. He leads, guides and directs us as He teaches.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall bewitnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
 
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brinny

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Originally Posted by brinny
We do not know who the elect are. God knows who will love hIm with all of their hearts and who will not. He really means it when He says He will not always strive with man. He also is in the waiting mode, as He was with with Noah, untill all those HE intended to save, got safely onto the ark. It is so now. After all have come under His wing, his beloved children, all hell will break loose, so to speak.

As we read, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. It is written.

I agree Brinny. All the elect will be sealed before His wrath is spilled. But, of the many that shall endure the wrath...none are condemned to eternal death. They will be taught during the millennium.

Would you be so kind as to show me where this is written?
 
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the particular baptist

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Im taking the risk of casting pearls before swine but for the sake of those to whom Christ has revealed Himself to and now have a proper understanding of just what a pile of stinking flesh we are as former sons and daughters of Adam im sharing this poem of whom the author thereof shall remain anonymous.



Free-will is a sly, and insidious foe,
It haunts me and plagues me wherever I go;
In pulpit or pew, meditation or prayer,
In reading or writing, he’s sure to be there.


Free-will is a trap in which Satan ensnares
The Pharisee, even while saying his prayers;
All heavenly work-folk are caught with the bait;
Their doings so good, and their merits so great.


Free-will is rank poison, a curse and a bane,
Diffusing its venom through every vein;
This cup of free-will Adam drank in the fall,
Which poisoned himself and infected us all.


Free-will is a plague which in Eden began,
And marr’d all the beauty of innocent man;
The leprosy spread from the head to the feet,
His offspring all caught the infection complete.


Free-will is a thief, of an impudent face,
Who aims to rob God of His Glory and Grace,
Ye watchmen in Zion, who are faithful and bold,
Hunt out the base robber from every fold.


Free-will is a murd’rer of souls every day,
And millions are slain ’neath his pond’rous sway;
This murd’rous assassin has people in hell,
Who ever in torments with devils must dwell.


Free-will is a traitor to Jesus, my Lord;
Rebels at His sovereignty, counsel and word;
Defying His power with impious strain,
And cries, " I’ll not have this Jesus to reign."


Free-will is a liar, says, " ’tis with ease
A man can believe and repent when he please,
That he’s a free agent, and so may refuse
The good or the evil, whichever he choose."


Free-will’s an impostor and cheat at the best,
To offer salvation he never possess’d
If certain conditions I only fulfil,
Yet gives me no power to do or to will.


Free-will as a tyrant once rul’d over me;
But Jesus o’ercame him, and now I am free;
Made willing to own Him my King from that hour,
I bow to His sceptre and yield to His power.


Free-grace is a scheme which Jehovah began,
In covenant counsel He drew up the plan;
The Mighty Redeemer accomplish’d the whole
And the Spirit imparted its joys in my soul.


Free-grace is distinguishing, sovereign to choose
What objects to favour and whom to refuse;
His purpose must stand who is God ever blest,
The election obtain’d it, and blind are the rest.


Free-grace from contingencies ever secure,
Its blessings are absolute, certain and sure;
For all that are chosen and purchased by blood
Are conquer’d and made willing servants to God.


Free-grace first enriched me when needy and poor,
And led me to Christ’s inexhaustible store;
Heal’d all my diseases when ready to die,
And covered my nakedness as He passed by.


Free-grace pulled me out of the miry clay,
When sunk in the ruins of nature I lay;
Wash’d from the filth and pollution of sin,
And made me both righteous and perfectly clean.


Free-grace in Christ Jesus secures all the crop
Of spiritual graces, my love, joy, and hope.
Faith, patience, and meekness, with temperance too,
And courage to bear me the conflict all through.


Free-grace has to me an inheritance given,
Laid up and reserved in the kingdom of heaven;
And keeps me securely, through faith, until I
Shall enter upon my possessions on high.


Free-grace is the theme of the glorified throng,
While ages eternal are rolling along;
All glory and honour ascribe they to Him,
Who liveth and reigneth the only Supreme.


Free-grace is the boast of true pilgrims below,
As through this dark valley to Zion they go.
Delighted the watchmen all lift up their voice,
Of free-grace salvation they sing and rejoice.


Free-grace long has been my soul’s triumph and joy;
And, while in the body, shall be my employ;
And when my glad spirit to God shall ascend
Free-grace is the song which shall never have end.
 
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brinny

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Im taking the risk of casting pearls before swine but for the sake of those to whom Christ has revealed Himself to and now have a proper understanding of just what a pile of stinking flesh we are as former sons and daughters of Adam im sharing this poem of whom the author thereof shall remain anonymous.



Free-will is a sly, and insidious foe,
It haunts me and plagues me wherever I go;
In pulpit or pew, meditation or prayer,
In reading or writing, he’s sure to be there.


Free-will is a trap in which Satan ensnares
The Pharisee, even while saying his prayers;
All heavenly work-folk are caught with the bait;
Their doings so good, and their merits so great.


Free-will is rank poison, a curse and a bane,
Diffusing its venom through every vein;
This cup of free-will Adam drank in the fall,
Which poisoned himself and infected us all.


Free-will is a plague which in Eden began,
And marr’d all the beauty of innocent man;
The leprosy spread from the head to the feet,
His offspring all caught the infection complete.


Free-will is a thief, of an impudent face,
Who aims to rob God of His Glory and Grace,
Ye watchmen in Zion, who are faithful and bold,
Hunt out the base robber from every fold.


Free-will is a murd’rer of souls every day,
And millions are slain ’neath his pond’rous sway;
This murd’rous assassin has people in hell,
Who ever in torments with devils must dwell.


Free-will is a traitor to Jesus, my Lord;
Rebels at His sovereignty, counsel and word;
Defying His power with impious strain,
And cries, " I’ll not have this Jesus to reign."


Free-will is a liar, says, " ’tis with ease
A man can believe and repent when he please,
That he’s a free agent, and so may refuse
The good or the evil, whichever he choose."


Free-will’s an impostor and cheat at the best,
To offer salvation he never possess’d
If certain conditions I only fulfil,
Yet gives me no power to do or to will.


Free-will as a tyrant once rul’d over me;
But Jesus o’ercame him, and now I am free;
Made willing to own Him my King from that hour,
I bow to His sceptre and yield to His power.


Free-grace is a scheme which Jehovah began,
In covenant counsel He drew up the plan;
The Mighty Redeemer accomplish’d the whole
And the Spirit imparted its joys in my soul.


Free-grace is distinguishing, sovereign to choose
What objects to favour and whom to refuse;
His purpose must stand who is God ever blest,
The election obtain’d it, and blind are the rest.


Free-grace from contingencies ever secure,
Its blessings are absolute, certain and sure;
For all that are chosen and purchased by blood
Are conquer’d and made willing servants to God.


Free-grace first enriched me when needy and poor,
And led me to Christ’s inexhaustible store;
Heal’d all my diseases when ready to die,
And covered my nakedness as He passed by.


Free-grace pulled me out of the miry clay,
When sunk in the ruins of nature I lay;
Wash’d from the filth and pollution of sin,
And made me both righteous and perfectly clean.


Free-grace in Christ Jesus secures all the crop
Of spiritual graces, my love, joy, and hope.
Faith, patience, and meekness, with temperance too,
And courage to bear me the conflict all through.


Free-grace has to me an inheritance given,
Laid up and reserved in the kingdom of heaven;
And keeps me securely, through faith, until I
Shall enter upon my possessions on high.


Free-grace is the theme of the glorified throng,
While ages eternal are rolling along;
All glory and honour ascribe they to Him,
Who liveth and reigneth the only Supreme.


Free-grace is the boast of true pilgrims below,
As through this dark valley to Zion they go.
Delighted the watchmen all lift up their voice,
Of free-grace salvation they sing and rejoice.


Free-grace long has been my soul’s triumph and joy;
And, while in the body, shall be my employ;
And when my glad spirit to God shall ascend
Free-grace is the song which shall never have end.

Thank you for posting this. Would you mind if i post it in my blog?

Amen and amen!
 
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1whirlwind

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I missed that. Where is that written?

I'm not sure which comment you are asking about. The virgins loving Him is demonstrated as they waited for the bridegroom....He is the bridegroom. It is just that some didn't have enough truth to carry them through without falling into apostasy.


The other is being taught in the millennium. All of the chapter goes into it but I'll quote one verse....

Ezekiel 44:23 And they shall teach My People the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
 
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the particular baptist

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Thank you for posting this. Would you mind if i post it in my blog?

Amen and amen!

Not at all go right ahead. I didnt write it, but i know that a preacher of the sovereign free grace of God in Christ did.
 
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1whirlwind

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[/b]

Am I correct to assume that this is the case because you also believe that we are into the final days? I believe that the Bible speaks of Election in previous times also, as even Jesus himself testified that some who followed him were among the Elect (John 10).


I do believe we are in the final days. Those that followed Him were elect and as such they witnessed for Him.


I won't argue that, but what I was getting at was whether you though being "elect" meant ONLY that they were chosen for some service and not predestined for salvation.

Truly Albion, I can't separate them. The elect of the past had a purpose as do we.
 
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Albion

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I do believe we are in the final days. Those that followed Him were elect and as such they witnessed for Him.




Truly Albion, I can't separate them. The elect of the past had a purpose as do we.


I think you are striving to avoid answering my questions to you.

Let's try this in order to put it to rest. Do you agree with this statement--

"The Elect are those of any age whom God has predestined to salvation; we also believe that the Elect will serve God by their lives."
 
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1whirlwind

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I think you are striving to avoid answering my questions to you.

Let's try this in order to put it to rest. Do you agree with this statement--

"The Elect are those of any age whom God has predestined to salvation; we also believe that the Elect will serve God by their lives."


Yes. Why did you think I was avoiding that? I thought that is what I have been saying.
 
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Ariellamb

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In a way. All the virgins loved Him and yet some fell away at the last. But, consider too all those that did not love Him for they were raised Hindu, Buddist, Muslim, etc....or by atheist parents...for whatever reason they were not taught of Him. However, they lived righteous lives. They are not saved, for that path is only through Him, but nor are they condemned. They will be taught during the millennium.

That sounds very much like JW teaching to me
 
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Albion

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I think you are striving to avoid answering my questions to you.

Let's try this in order to put it to rest. Do you agree with this statement--

"The Elect are those of any age whom God has predestined to salvation; we also believe that the Elect will serve God by their lives."

Yes. Why did you think I was avoiding that? I thought that is what I have been saying.

It seemed to me that each of your replies has left some door open to another meaning or phrased it in a way that introduced some other idea, for example, that the Elect only appear at or very close to the end times or that they are not predestined to salvation but specially chosen for some task on Earth apart from being "Elect" in the sense of being selected for salvation through a deliberate act of God that takes no note of these people's future merits.

For a better example, when you said "Those that followed Him were elect" I thought the sentence could have been constructed to say that anyone who followed Jesus was, ergo, one of the Elect--which is actually to deny that anyone was predestined by God to salvation.

So I hope that answers that...and I thank you for your answers.
 
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1whirlwind

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That sounds very much like JW teaching to me


I don't know anything about their teaching. :) What I have spoken of is written in His Word.

In Ezekiel, in the chapters about the millennium and after He tells us where we will be...on what side of the river. In a vision an angel showed the future to Ezekiel. They came from the altar to the outer gate of the city, the holy city Jerusalem. Healing waters, waters to teach, are flowing from the altar of the Lamb.....


Ezekiel 47:3-5 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins. Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

The same river is mentioned in the chapter about eternity.....
Revelation 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him;
47:6-7 And he said unto me, "Son of man, hast thou seen this?" Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

Our Saviour, the Word, is The Tree of Life. His elect, those He abides in, are His trees that teach His Word, His healing word. Notice that there is a division and that division cannot be crossed. Those on one side will not be of the holy city but...they ARE NOT destroyed. They will be healed.
47:8-9 Then said he unto me, "These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live; and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither; for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

Waters are symbolic of not only the river of life but of people, the people that need healing....

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
47:10-11 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

The fishers of course are those, like Peter, that fish for men, for the souls of men...the fish being "their kinds." The different nations? But, of those not all "shall be healed." They are past redemption.
47:12 And by the river upon the bank therof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit therof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf therof for medicine."

For meat to learn of His Word. For medicine to heal souls. Again, the trees are His elect that are filled with His Spirit...filled with the "waters of the sanctuary."
 
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brinny

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I don't know anything about their teaching. :) What I have spoken of is written in His Word.

In Ezekiel, in the chapters about the millennium and after He tells us where we will be...on what side of the river. In a vision an angel showed the future to Ezekiel. They came from the altar to the outer gate of the city, the holy city Jerusalem. Healing waters, waters to teach, are flowing from the altar of the Lamb.....


Ezekiel 47:3-5 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins. Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

The same river is mentioned in the chapter about eternity.....
Revelation 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him;
47:6-7 And he said unto me, "Son of man, hast thou seen this?" Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

Our Saviour, the Word, is The Tree of Life. His elect, those He abides in, are His trees that teach His Word, His healing word. Notice that there is a division and that division cannot be crossed. Those on one side will not be of the holy city but...they ARE NOT destroyed. They will be healed.
47:8-9 Then said he unto me, "These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live; and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither; for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

Waters are symbolic of not only the river of life but of people, the people that need healing....

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
47:10-11 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

The fishers of course are those, like Peter, that fish for men, for the souls of men...the fish being "their kinds." The different nations? But, of those not all "shall be healed." They are past redemption.
47:12 And by the river upon the bank therof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit therof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf therof for medicine."

For meat to learn of His Word. For medicine to heal souls. Again, the trees are His elect that are filled with His Spirit...filled with the "waters of the sanctuary."

Not all will wish to be caught. There are those, to their dying breath, will curse the God Who provided such a sacrificial grace. God knows each of our hearts, and surely knows these hearts. To such, the only begotten Son of the living God will say to depart from Him for He never knew them.

God does not take lightly, the sacrifice of His only begotten Son, nor embrace those that casually dismiss such a cost to His beloved Son.

God is holy. He hates sin. That is why such a drastic sacrifice was required. That is why repentence and turning away from sin, is what Jesus preached. There are dire consequences for not doing so. From the beginning the enemy hissed convincingly, to ears itching to hear it, "Has God said?" "Surely you will not die." He is the father of lies. It is written.

“Sin is the dare of God’s justice,
the rape of His mercy,
the jeer of His patience,
the slight of His power,
and the contempt of His love.”
–John Bunyan​
 
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