I haven't seen a thread about this yet...

Chesterton

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Why are some people so quick to treat scientists as if they're some better class of human; as if they're above bias, passion and corruption? This is a blatant attempt at deception, and you want to portray it as their opponents "twisting" facts? I think the more one loves and respects science, the more one should be upset with these people.
 
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Cabal

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The point is, I'm not sure it's entirely clear they were twisting data. There is a lot of quote mining of emails going on here, and not much discussion of the actual data they were using.

And no, scientists aren't perfect; by contrast, because one lab is found to maybe be fiddling data doesn't mean the entire field is bull.

And as usual, no-one ever bothers to counter the main facts of the matter.

CO2 is too heavy to escape the atmosphere.
Atmospheric CO2 traps heat.
We make a LOT of CO2.
Our main sources of CO2 recycling, trees, are being destroyed at a rate.
Additional heat creates greater amounts of more effective greenhouse gases.

No, AGW mightn't be a problem now - which if so, is good, because it means we have time to fix it. To say that it's entirely a made-up problem is just insanity.
 
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Thistlethorn

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The thing about these emails is that there is no evidence for any fudging of data. There is no evidence for any wrong-doings. There is no evidence for AGW being a fraud. What there is is a bunch of cherry-picked, out of context snippets of personal communication between scientists apparently completely fed up with the constant harassment from willfully obtuse denialists.

Copenhagen is coming up. A treaty needs to be signed. The denialists are pulling all the stops to prevent that from happening, and thanks to the lack of scientific education in some countries, they seem to be somewhat successful.

When this is over and done with, I would like to see subpoenas for the personal correspondence of leading denialists. I am pretty certain that if we look there, criminal charges will be plentiful.
 
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Cabal

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What I really love about all of this is they're talking about setting up an inquiry into what the lab was doing, meanwhile the guy who hacked in, who actually clearly broke the law, doesn't get a second mention, and will probably end up being recruited by some intelligence agency anyway.
 
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laconicstudent

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I have absolutely no idea whats going on anymore. I'm simply annoyed because we will probably end up having to hand out grants to run the studies all over again to get results and data that isn't tainted by association with this controversy.
 
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Nooj

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If it were shown that some evolutionary biologists had faked data about their research, I would be outraged - but I wouldn't necessarily think that evolution was a hoax. Not because I have some ideological devotion to the theory, but because the overall evidence is still compelling. But many people are doing just the opposite for Climategate.
 
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laconicstudent

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Sanguis

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Just another scientific fraud.

Standard behavior actually.

Yes, clearly standard behavior:

hst2.jpg


iss2_sts114_big.jpg


ct-scan.jpg


fusion-reactor-5.jpg


CERN_LHC_t2030shigh.jpeg


X-Ray.jpg


sonicboomplane_navy.jpg


bionic.jpg


I mean, God magicked all of those things, and much more, into existence, scientists had nothing to do with it.

Stop being so arrogant, science has made your life unthinkably easier, safer, healthier, more fun, and unimaginably better.
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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Yes, clearly standard behavior:

hst2.jpg
Rebuttals - Halton Arp's official website

NGC 4319 and Markarian 205 - Why Hide a Cosmic Bridge?

NGC4319.jpg



http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/publish/stwebresources/PL__Press__Release/CERN_LHC_t2030shigh.jpeg

Science has become an international circus. And opening day for “The Greatest Show on Earth” has arrived. In the 27 km main circus ring we have the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) project, starting up after $6 billion dollars and thirty years of development. Before the show the clowns have warmed up the audience with fantastic stories of what we might see. But why should we take clowns seriously?

Peter%20Higgs.jpg
 
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laconicstudent

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It never ceases to amaze me that people believe in Arp's intrinsic redshift garbage.

And your attempts to demean the Large Hadron Collider and science are amusing. It always annoyed me that America almost decided to build an even larger one, but we decided it was too expensive. And the Arecibo Observatory has a budget deficit.... Its shameful, really. We keep falling further and further behind in science.

At least Obama repealed that stupid Embryonic Stem cell ban finally. Hopefully we can catch up.
 
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Psudopod

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sandwiches

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Agonaces of Susa, I am definitely with you in thinking science is bogus and I support any and all decisions by you to to stop using all fruits of science including, but not limited to, computers, cars, modern medicine, airplanes, plastics, dishwashers, clean water, air conditioning, electricity, calculators, GPS, cell phones, or TV. :wave:
 
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