God never commited genocide

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tanzanos

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Since Jesus commanded that the OT should be adhered to in its entirety: “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

Then we are to assume that anyone who stones to death a child for disrespecting his parents should be commended for his god worthy actions as a good Christian.

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.
Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”
1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.
I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.
Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.
Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.
Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.

These are just a few of many excerpts from the Bible.

Now since Jesus himself commanded we keep the laws of the OT then what kind of religion is this that commands one to kill children for disobedience?

This is not a God I want to have anything to do with! Every time I read the Bible I am shocked!

God destroys all living souls in Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins yet allows Lot to live even though Lot committed incest with his own Daughters and left them pregnant!

As a parent I find this type of ideology and message as frightening and disturbing!
 
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Tzaousios

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If you don't understand it say that, don't go around saying that I think Christians have the right to kill babies.

I never said that. What I did say is that I set your statements aside. This is because it was unclear what your position is on this and other things after your posts about DNA and biology. If you would like to take this as an opportunity to clarify, please do so.
 
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david_x

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I never said that. What I did say is that I set your statements aside. This is because it was unclear what your position is on this and other things after your posts about DNA and biology. If you would like to take this as an opportunity to clarify, please do so.

You should be more clear in your writing then, whether you meant to or not you called me pro-infanticide and that is not acceptable.
 
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3sigma

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Ideology? What I believe is not the same thing as whether I think a Republican or a Democrat will implement good public policies. Just as you railed against others in here for equating atheism with Marxism, do not equate Christianity with an ideology.
The reason I used the phrase “any ideology” was to make the question more general than just religions to avoid the accusation that I am asking people to reject Christianity. Nevertheless, you evaded the question. Who wouldn’t reject any ideology that teaches that the slaughter of children is acceptable or justifiable? Do you think your God’s slaughter of children is acceptable or justifiable?

Interesting. So have you corrected your previous error of anachronism of applying the label of genocide to your proof texts in the Old Testament? The next step is for you to figure out that these people were not "slaughtered" as if they irrational beasts.
Slaughter means the killing of great numbers of human beings (as in battle or a massacre). Your God’s killing of every child on the planet was a slaughter, a massacre and genocide, whichever way you want to look at it. Your God intended to wipe out the entire human race (except for one family).

Genesis 6:7 "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

It then proceeded with the deliberate and systematic destruction of every ethnic, racial, religious or national group. The subsequent slaughter was genocide on a scale unmatched by any mere human. Do you think that particular slaughter was acceptable or justifiable?

I thought atheists, being exceptionally smart and logical in their thinking, would not begin to waffle on their positions and create contradictions. Previously you said that you were not trying to assert that modern Christians would commit genocide and think it is a good thing. Now you seem to be saying that they do just that.
No, again, I am not saying Christians would commit genocide. I’m saying they admire and respect something that would commit such slaughters. Some also think such slaughters are acceptable and justifiable. Do you admire and respect this God that slaughtered every child on Earth? Do you think your God’s slaughter of children is acceptable or justifiable?

Human beings should not be slaughtered or systematically liquidated in a genocide.
Yet you admire and respect the God that the Bible claims slaughtered every human on the planet except for one family. Why would you admire and respect such a thing? You also evaded several other questions in there. Why would Christians admire and respect those things? What could override the normal human revulsion against the slaughter of children? Are there any other slaughters of children Christians consider to be justified or is it only the slaughters that are part of Christian beliefs?
 
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3sigma

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If you don't understand it say that, don't go around saying that I think Christians have the right to kill babies.
Do you think the Christian God has the right to kill babies? Why would you admire and respect a God that would slaughter every child on the entire planet?
 
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b&wpac4

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Why would you admire and respect a God that would slaughter every child on the entire planet?

Why is it the same people who would agree with me that a worldwide flood never happened, makes no sense, and seems to be a myth-like story are the same people who use it as a means of attacking? If it didn't happen, it didn't happen.
 
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david_x

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Do you think the Christian God has the right to kill babies? Why would you admire and respect a God that would slaughter every child on the entire planet?

Does he have the right? Yes. Will he? Not likely, He doesn't slay the innocent...
 
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3sigma

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Why is it the same people who would agree with me that a worldwide flood never happened, makes no sense, and seems to be a myth-like story are the same people who use it as a means of attacking? If it didn't happen, it didn't happen.
Of course, as an atheist, I think it is total nonsense and never happened. If I did actually believe that a God had committed such an atrocity then I would never admire or respect such a God and I would never consider the slaughter acceptable or justifiable.

However, that there are those who do believe it happened, yet they admire and respect the God that they believe committed that atrocity. And some even think such slaughter was acceptable and justifiable. It is that moral attitude that I find disturbing.
 
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b&wpac4

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However, that there are those who do believe it happened, yet they admire and respect the God that they believe committed that atrocity. And some even think such slaughter was acceptable and justifiable. It is that moral attitude that I find disturbing.

What about my attitude? I hold that the events did not occur and are only to serve as a teaching story. I feel a lot less disturbed if I believe a bunch of fictional characters die in a morality tale than if I believe many millions of actual breathing humans died in an actual event.
 
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david_x

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But the Bible claims that your God has already committed this atrocity. Why would you admire and respect a God like that?

From what perspective? From the enemy perspective He would have been killing all of their children. From the Israelite perspective, He was saving their children from destruction.
 
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b&wpac4

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From what perspective? From the enemy perspective He would have been killing all of their children. From the Israelite perspective, He was saving their children from destruction.

The question being:

Given that God is doing this, couldn't the task be accomplished through non-lethal means?
 
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david_x

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The question being:

Given that God is doing this, couldn't the task be accomplished through non-lethal means?

Not could, should. You want to know if it should have been accomplished through non-lethal means. The answer is no, why I can't know for sure. But when you love someone you trust them. (Trust and check, and as far as evidence shows they were very evil.)
 
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b&wpac4

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Not could, should. You want to know if it should have been accomplished through non-lethal means. The answer is no, why I can't know for sure. But when you love someone you trust them. (Trust and check, and as far as evidence shows they were very evil.)

Which evidence?

I have my own theories as to why the books were written so that all the enemies were killed instead of absorbed and it has to do with the Hebrews being very concerned with purity since they were a Chosen people. It's hard to maintain that when you also think you absorbed a great deal of other peoples when gaining the land you possess.
 
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david_x

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Which evidence?

I have my own theories as to why the books were written so that all the enemies were killed instead of absorbed and it has to do with the Hebrews being very concerned with purity since they were a Chosen people. It's hard to maintain that when you also think you absorbed a great deal of other peoples when gaining the land you possess.

Theories need evidence based backing. I'm a nurse, we don't do anything that doesn't have several studies behind it. (Down to the direction we turn the pillow.)
 
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3sigma

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What about my attitude? I hold that the events did not occur and are only to serve as a teaching story.
If that were the case then I would question why, if you think this ridiculous nonsense is untrue, you don’t think all the other ridiculous nonsense in the Bible is untrue as well? The flood story is quite elaborate and detailed so if you disbelieve that then why don’t you disbelieve even less credible stories such as an unsubstantiated God, talking snakes, a six-day creation, a grown man walking on water and rising from the dead?
 
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3sigma

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From what perspective? From the enemy perspective He would have been killing all of their children. From the Israelite perspective, He was saving their children from destruction.
What are you talking about? Your God killed everyone’s children. It didn’t spare some and kill others. It indiscriminately slaughtered every single one of them. Again, why would you admire or respect a God that allegedly killed every single child on the entire planet? Why should anyone admire or respect something that had committed such an atrocity?
 
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Tzaousios

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The reason I used the phrase “any ideology” was to make the question more general than just religions to avoid the accusation that I am asking people to reject Christianity.

Sure, now you redefine your terms once again after the fact. Face it, you committed the same bait-and-switch of definitions that you accused others of doing with atheism and Marxism. Once again your methodology has glaring holes in it.

What do you mean "the accusation that I am asking people to reject Christianity"? That is a laughable statement considering your attitude in here and in other threads. What would probably give you more gratification than denigrating Christians is to cause them to apostasize. But then again, were they really Christians in the first place if they apostasized?

3sigma said:
Who wouldn’t reject any ideology that teaches that the slaughter of children is acceptable or justifiable?

Where does the Bible, not an ideology, teach that the slaughter of children is acceptable or justifiable? I do not think it does. Merely posting proof texts and then bellowing that they teach that "the slaughter of children" is justifiable does not make it so.

3sigma said:
Slaughter means the killing of great numbers of human beings (as in battle or a massacre).

Yes, it can be used to describe this, especially when the one doing the describing wishes to use it in an exaggerated or pejorative sense based on their agenda for describing the object as such.

3sigma said:
Your God’s killing of every child on the planet was a slaughter, a massacre and genocide, whichever way you want to look at it. Your God intended to wipe out the entire human race (except for one family).

Once again you are isolating "every child" to provoke an emotionalized response. Children were not the only ones killed, not to mention the reasons why it was done, which you have totally ignored. Then again, why would you pay attention to the reasons since you come into the "discussion" with the presuppositions that God does not exist and that the Bible portrays him as an evil murderer?

3sigma said:
It then proceeded with the deliberate and systematic destruction of every ethnic, racial, religious or national group. The subsequent slaughter was genocide on a scale unmatched by any mere human.

Here you go again bringing in notions of ethnicity and race in order to provoke an emotionalized response. This is disingenuous on your part as it has already been pointed out to you that race and ethnicity were not among the reasons why God sent the flood. But then again, why should you care since your purpose is to gratify yourself by denigrating Christian faith and maligning the name of God?

3sigma said:
No, again, I am not saying Christians would commit genocide. I’m saying they admire and respect something that would commit such slaughters. Some also think such slaughters are acceptable and justifiable.

Indeed, like I mentioned before, you have taken great pains to make it seem as though you are not accusing Christians of wanting to commit genocide. However, you have hinted, intimated, and suggested that because they believe in the OT as an inspired text that an immoral predisposition exists whereby they could easily justify it and perhaps commit it if the occasion arose. You would be quite happy if you could lead a so-called Christian to justify and suggest that genocide should be committed.

3sigma said:
Yet you admire and respect the God that the Bible claims slaughtered every human on the planet except for one family. Why would you admire and respect such a thing?

Since you have come into the "debate" wishing only to gratify your desire to denigrate the faith of Christians and try to cause some kind of emotional breakdown by showing them "the truth," why are you even asking these questions? Oh wait, yes, they are rhetorical questions designed to denigrate further the faith and belief of Christians.
 
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