Humans are neither unique nor special

Sanguis

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are you speaking from the standpoint of evolutionary theory?

Yes.

Both us and all modern apes share a common ancestor.

All apes (us included) and monkeys share a common ancestor, even older than the common ancestor we share with other apes.

Think of it like a tree, as a new branch grows, that branch can diverge again into other branches, which then go on to diverge again. You end up with multiple branches all coming off from the first one. Think of the first branch as the common ancestor.
 
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brinny

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Originally Posted by brinny
are you speaking from the standpoint of evolutionary theory?

Yes.

Both us and all modern apes share a common ancestor.

All apes (us included) and monkeys share a common ancestor, even older than the common ancestor we share with other apes.

Think of it like a tree, as a new branch grows, that branch can diverge again into other branches, which then go on to diverge again. You end up with multiple branches all coming off from the first one. Think of the first branch as the common ancestor.

Apparently the theories of humans, being apes, differ....here on this site, several who support evolutionary theory deny that we are apes. What's a source that would clarify what the theory is?
 
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pgp_protector

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Stars produce heat.
My body produces heat.
Therefore, I'm just a small star.

1) What's the classification of a star & do you fit it ?
2) What's the classification of an ape & do you fit it ?
 
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Thistlethorn

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Chesterton

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1) What's the classification of a star & do you fit it ?
2) What's the classification of an ape & do you fit it ?

I share characteristics with both. According to the logic of the OP, two things sharing characteristics means they are are at bottom the same type of thing.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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why are there apes vs humans, still? Why are there any apes at all if they are, in fact, ancesters? Why do they still exist in that form? Why haven't they evolved? Was there some stunting or retardation, or did time stop, was there a time warp? What happened?
We are all descended from the same species. That species was not a gorilla, or a chimp, or a bonobo, or an orang-outang. It was another species entirely, which splintered into several distinct groups. Each group evolved in its own way; one group became gorillas, another group became humans.

It's a common misconception that the apes living today are the same apes that were living millions of years ago. They're not. They're just as evolved as we are.

Apparently the theories of humans, being apes, differ....here on this site, several who support evolutionary theory deny that we are apes. What's a source that would clarify what the theory is?
It's to do with terminology and phraseology. Is the common ancestor of all apes (which includes us) an ape? Or a monkey? Or what?

But we are apes, and we share a common ancestor with the other apes.

Stars produce heat.
My body produces heat.
Therefore, I'm just a small star.
If the production of heat were the only criterion for starhood, then you would indeed be a small star.
 
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brinny

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We are all descended from the same species. That species was not a gorilla, or a chimp, or a bonobo, or an orang-outang. It was another species entirely, which splintered into several distinct groups. Each group evolved in its own way; one group became gorillas, another group became humans.

It's a common misconception that the apes living today are the same apes that were living millions of years ago. They're not. They're just as evolved as we are.


It's to do with terminology and phraseology. Is the common ancestor of all apes (which includes us) an ape? Or a monkey? Or what?

But we are apes, and we share a common ancestor with the other apes.


If the production of heat were the only criterion for starhood, then you would indeed be a small star.

Which species was this that splintered into several distinct groups? And where was this information obtained from?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Which species was this that splintered into several distinct groups?
Take your pick:

418px-Hominoid_taxonomy_7.svg.png


'Homininae', for example, is the name of a species or line of species that once lived, but eventually split into Hominini and Gorillini

And where was this information obtained from?
Genetic profiling of Homo, Pan, etc, and the fossil record, mostly.
 
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brinny

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Take your pick:

418px-Hominoid_taxonomy_7.svg.png


'Homininae', for example, is the name of a species or line of species that once lived, but eventually split into Hominini and Gorillini


Genetic profiling of Homo, Pan, etc, and the fossil record, mostly.

Homininae, or the species or line of species that once lived...who discovered this species or line of species, and why do they not live any longer?
 
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Dark_Lite

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Hah, now that's a question and a half. Sentience generally means concious, the ability to experience qualia (pain, pleasure, the colour 'red', etc), etc.

Hmm. That may be why we diverge on this issue. I define sentience something basically unique to humans. We are the dominant and most intelligent species on the planet. Other animals do have the ability to experience certain things to a limited degree; but not on the level that we do. We surpass animals (for the sake of simplicity I am referring to non-human creatures as animals here) in those qualities by leaps and bounds.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Hmm. That may be why we diverge on this issue. I define sentience something basically unique to humans.
Well if you define it as being unique to humans, then of course humans are the only ones with it.

We are the dominant and most intelligent species on the planet. Other animals do have the ability to experience certain things to a limited degree; but not on the level that we do.
How do you know? Certainly, they don't experience things in exactly the same way we do, but they can also experience things we can't. Bees see in the ultraviolet, ravens can instantly count higher than us (we can 'see' when something is made of one, two, three, four, or five items; higher numbers have to be counted directly), etc.

We surpass animals (for the sake of simplicity I am referring to non-human creatures as animals here) in those qualities by leaps and bounds.
Sure, but does that make us sentient?
 
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brinny

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Well if you define it as being unique to humans, then of course humans are the only ones with it.


How do you know? Certainly, they don't experience things in exactly the same way we do, but they can also experience things we can't. Bees see in the ultraviolet, ravens can instantly count higher than us (we can 'see' when something is made of one, two, three, four, or five items; higher numbers have to be counted directly), etc.


Sure, but does that make us sentient?

are we not sentient?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Homininae, or the species or line of species that once lived...who discovered this species or line of species, and why do they not live any longer?
As far as I know, it was inferred to exist from the evidence. But it could be that there's direct evidence of its existence.

They no longer live because the population split for whatever reason. All their descendants have since evolved into other species, all distinct from each other and from the original population.

An interesting exception to this otherwise universal phenomenon are the so-called 'living fossils': species which are alive today that are practically identical to their ancestors that lived hundreds of thousands or even millions of years ago.
Indeed, it may even be that the 'Homininae' species is practically identical to, say, chimps. But who knows.
 
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