simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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Understanding praying to saints
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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God answers prayers according to His will not according to who is praying...
14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.
14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.
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Thekla
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Actually, Paul also refers to Moses as a mediator; there must be One to give (Christ) and one to receive the 'agreement'.
As for intercession, Paul asks for and encourages others to intercede with prayer.
Christ is our model; we are to become as He is. Will we cease to be like Him when in Heaven ?
As for intercession, Paul asks for and encourages others to intercede with prayer.
Christ is our model; we are to become as He is. Will we cease to be like Him when in Heaven ?
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Thekla
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All requests are answered ultimately by God. But Iakovos witnesses the superior efficacy of the prayers of some (the righteous).
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The Psalmist asks the angels to join him in prayer (Ps 148:1-2, Ps 103:20-21), the Israelites acquire the successful intercession of an angel (Zec 1:11-16), and the elders and angel in heaven present the ascended prayers of the saints on earth to God (Rev 5:8, 8:4, cf. Acts 10:4). Paul also sets the explicit example of asking other members of the Body of Christ to pray for him (Rm 15:30, 1 Thes 5:25, et al). There are some people, however, who wish to add to Scripture a qualification to exclude those members of the Body of Christ who are closest to God, whose prayers are most powerful. Scripture makes no such qualification, but the opposite as the examples herein show.
Link to all Scripture in this post.
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In addition to what Thekla said, no we are not ignoring this post, rather this post is ignoring the chart in the OP that this thread is about. This post ignores Paul asking other to pray for him. This post makes no sense in this thread.
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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You guys can continue on with a practice that is clearly an affront to our Lord, Paul does NOT ask those in heaven to pray for him ANYWHERE in scripture. perverting God's word to say something it isn't saying just to quantify a man made tradition is wrong and i think you both know it.
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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Polo these are commands to all creation to praise the creator. Nice reach!
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Thekla
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I think we have a different understanding of the effect of the salvation offered by Christ.
I understand those who have died in Him to be with Him.
I understand the Holy Spirit to bind His body, the Church, together now - because Christ has already conquered death.
I do not consider this to be a manmade tradition; I believe it testifies the power and reality of Christ in Christ.
I consider the view that those with Christ are dead to be a matter of the failure to recognize the true power of Christ and a failure to recognize what is His body. I do not consider the body of Christ to be partially alive and partially dead, as if gangrenous.
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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Salvation in Christ is full, when we are told this...
. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.
5 He who was seated on the throne said, I am making everything new! Then he said, Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.
I take Him at his word, hearing the cries of pains torment and tribulation on earth goes against his trustworthy words He gives to us.
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PaladinValer
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Iconoclasm was declared to be unorthodox by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
That's enough for me. If God says petitioning others, including those in sheol and in heaven, is fine, then it is.
That's enough for me. If God says petitioning others, including those in sheol and in heaven, is fine, then it is.
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You realize the timeframe for this promise is when the first heaven and earth have passed away?
It also fails to address Rachel's tears in the book of Jeremiah.
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Thekla
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"I am making" ... it is in process, and all are not yet added. But the body of Christ is still living; those who have left the body and are with Christ (Paul) are with Christ. The body of Christ is not divided.
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katherine2001
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And unlike those of us still walking on earth and in our earthly bodies, the saints can (and will) happily intercede with God for you anytime. My bishop once told us that the saints pray for us when we make bad choices during our earthly race and cheer us on when we make the right choices. I don't know about you, but I need all the help I can get. I will glady accept their willingness to pray for me, especially when I am really struggling. As Paul says in Hebrews, we are surrounded by a "cloud of witnesses". I am honored to ask St. Peter, and the other apostles to pray for me, and I know that they will gladly do it. I ask St. Peter to pray for me every day to pray for me to overcome my temper/anger. I know that St. Peter dealt with that and will know exactly how to pray for me to overcome that--he knows exactly what is involved.
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Dorothea
One of God's handmaidens
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When I decided to ask some wonderful Saints to pray to our God for the healing of my son, a weight was lifted from my shoulders within an hour of my petitioning them. Their prayers are very powerful and wonderful.
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polishbeast
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"Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church." Colossians 1:24
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They are examples from saints on earth exhorting the saints in heaven to join them in prayer. What difference does it make what they ask for?
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bbbbbbb
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One tangential that has puzzled me for a long time is the apparent earthly location where certain saints are most apt to hear prayers, especially if one ignites a match and burns a candle in front of the statue representing that saint. Why is it that these individuals cannot hear prayers and answer them best in other places? Why do some believers make long and costly pilgrimages to their sites?
As for myself, I have yet to be disappointed by the unfailing intercession of my great high priest, Jesus Christ. I have yet to find a single need that He Himself is unwilling or unable to meet.
As for myself, I have yet to be disappointed by the unfailing intercession of my great high priest, Jesus Christ. I have yet to find a single need that He Himself is unwilling or unable to meet.
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Thekla
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Ah, you must have mistaken your limited observations for the actual.
Candles etc. are not required when asking another for prayers !
As for Christ, He is all.
And even then, He used Apostles when He didn't even need to.
Even Paul exhorts us to pray for others. God knows what we need. Why would Paul make such an exhortation
Candles etc. are not required when asking another for prayers !
As for Christ, He is all.
And even then, He used Apostles when He didn't even need to.
Even Paul exhorts us to pray for others. God knows what we need. Why would Paul make such an exhortation
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