There are no flames or torture
I agree with that.
But my Christian teachers told me that hell would be more along the lines of Dante's inferno.
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. ...
But to the Christian who rejects the notion of physical torment, I salute you and have no problem with that. Surely you are aware that many Christians do not agree with you, and it is that disagreement which justifies extreme measures to make people Christian?
But if you reject the notion of an infinately painful and eternal hell, I welcome your rejection.
Now, if I can crowbar out the need to have the details of the cross, I'm almost there with you.
(Why would an Indian need to know Jesus' name and the exact nature of his death?
What if an Indian young man - never having heard the name 'Jesus' - what if he prayed simply to the invisible Great Maker, and asked for forgiveness?
Would he go to heaven?
That's the last step.
Get past the need to know 'Jesus' specific life details or the whole Sacrifice details [would I go to heaven if I mistakenly thought that God came as Bobby who was burned to death over three days? What if I thought God came as a tree and was frozen to death over a year? What if I thought that God had no body and yet suffers as any Father would, every time I sin? {Who is the most tragic figure in the Jewish Bible? God.}] Allow God to forgive freely [Is 55:7], game over. You're Jewish. Put another way, you're God's.)
Even God in the Old Testament is a God of Justice. What is Just about having a law that nobody obeys and letting everyone do whatever they want to each other?
The Jewish God is clearly a God of Mercy, as well.
Just as you would be a father of justice and mercy to your own children, opting for heavy emphasis on mercy, so too is our (yours and mine) Father.
From my signature line:
(o.k., actually, I am quoting God... hope He doesn't mind...)
Ezek 18:21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him.
Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.
Jer 7:5 If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, ...
Jesus doesn't save us from God, Jesus saves us from ourselves.
My primary argument is to the Chrsitain who believes in hell.
For the person who says that quote, I say, God does that to. Assuming the Jewish Scriptures are correct.
I simply don't understand how you think this is not the picture of a Loving God?
If Christianity were correct, it would be the picture of a loving God.
I didn't contest that.
I just don't think Dad requires that I torture and murder him as a precondition to him forgiving me.
Thank you for your post.