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HumbleServant94 · Nov 10, 2009

fashionista1 said:
I believe God's grace and mercy far surpass any doubts we have concerning his existence. He understands we have an illness that may prevent us from relating to Him as others without OCD do. As it says in the Psalms "He knows our frame" and He knew before we were even born that we would struggle with this illness. I don't think He holds it against us. If He did, where would grace and mercy come in? No one is perfect in their relationship with God. Even "regular" people go through dry periods in their faith journey. I don't read my bible and pray much either because I tend to obsess on whether or not I'm understanding everything perfectly, and this can be very frustrating. Because of this, I too felt I was unsaved. I shared this with my therapist, and he told me this was not the case (he is a Christian) and that God does understand and that this is where faith in His promises comes in. I'm hoping that someday I will be able to read my bible in a relaxed manner and not to have to worry about understanding everything perfectly. It's weird because I can read other Christian books, both fiction and non-fiction, and not worry about this. In fact I skim through much of my reading of this material and don't even think about my understanding everything in a perfect way.

As another person indicated, the fact that you WANT to believe shows that you belong to Him. Think of it as the person in the bible who said to Jesus: "Lord I believe, help my unbelief".

I hope this helps. I'm a lot older than most of you in this thread, and I've had OCD/scrupulosity since I was 13 years old. I know how awful it can be, but hang on to whatever little faith you have.

fashionista1 (Kathy)

Well, how do I believe? What do you suggest I do?

fashionista1 · Nov 10, 2009

Pray and ask Him to come into your heart. You probably won't FEEL anything, but don't worry. Also ask Him to let you know that He understands that your OCD clouds your relationship with Him because He really does know and understands. He is merciful and NOT judgmental. He's not holding a hammer over your head.

Other than that, I don't know what else to tell you as I too go through ups and downs in my faith and, even though I've been a Christian for a long time, my faith is probably still as small as a mustard seed, but it does give me hope.

fashionista1

HumbleServant94 · Nov 11, 2009

fashionista1 said:
Pray and ask Him to come into your heart. You probably won't FEEL anything, but don't worry. Also ask Him to let you know that He understands that your OCD clouds your relationship with Him because He really does know and understands. He is merciful and NOT judgmental. He's not holding a hammer over your head.

Other than that, I don't know what else to tell you as I too go through ups and downs in my faith and, even though I've been a Christian for a long time, my faith is probably still as small as a mustard seed, but it does give me hope.

fashionista1

Once again I am doubting whether or not I believe in God. Even though I want to. I am also being tempted to not trust Him. I want to. But I don't know how.

HumbleServant94 · Nov 12, 2009

Well, when I doubt whether or not I believe in God, I always try to pray and tell God that I want to believe. I tell Him to change my heart and give me proper motives, but then I start getting thoughts and feelings telling me that I am lying to God and myself. I've honestly lost my ability to discern whether I am telling the truth or not in this subject. I don't know why.

Anybody ever had that happen to them? If so, do you have any advice?

Caty · Nov 12, 2009

If you didnt believe in God then you wouldn't be worried---because I mean if you really didnt believe then why would you be worried? What would you be fearing? Hell, because if you fear Hell then you believe in God. I've been through this fear and this is by far the hardest struggle to go through, but you will get through it. ocd can really block the way we think and it can cause unneeded fear.

HumbleServant94 · Nov 13, 2009

daniel2x2lcq said:
HumbleServant94 said:

Well, when I doubt whether or not I believe in God, I always try to pray and tell God that I want to believe. I tell Him to change my heart and give me proper motives, but then I start getting thoughts and feelings telling me that I am lying to God and myself. I've honestly lost my ability to discern whether I am telling the truth or not in this subject. I don't know why.

Anybody ever had that happen to them? If so, do you have any advice?

yes and this where it gets ultra weird

you dont know he exists but you pray and ask him to help you believe that he does i know exactly what you mean

my advice is to keep asking and he will reveal himself to you

Click to expand...

It's not really like that. It's more complicated. You see, I am doubting whether or not I believe in God. Not in God. But really myself. Every time I ask God to help me believe in Him, it's like my heart starts rejecting Him even though I think I don't want to. I say "I think" because I can't tell my honesty on this subject.

gracealone · Nov 13, 2009

HumbleServant94 said:
daniel2x2lcq said:

It's not really like that. It's more complicated. You see, I am doubting whether or not I believe in God. Not in God. But really myself. Every time I ask God to help me believe in Him, it's like my heart starts rejecting Him even though I think I don't want to. I say "I think" because I can't tell my honesty on this subject.

Click to expand...

Hey Humble,
First of all it's not unusual for anxiety disorders whether they be OCD, Panic Disorder, or Social Anxiety etc. to come to head or flare up when we are in our teens or twenties. We may have always had tendencies toward obsessional fears/phobias etc. but they've not been distressing enough to consume our every waking moment and lay us lower than dirt. Everything you've described is, however very typical of religious OCD. Also, it's important that you understand that OCD isn't always manifested by outwardly observable behaviors. For a lot of us the vast majority of our compulsive activity goes on in our heads. THis is called purely obsessional OCD.
OK... although you're question of whether or not you are actually believing in Him seems complicated it's a pretty typical OCD doubt/question that forces us into continual checking and reassurance seeking behaviors. OCD demands certainty, 100% proof for the things that we must accept by faith. CS Lewis said "The moment one asks oneself... "do I believe?" all feelings of belief seem to fly away." He said it's as if you are trying to take your eyes out of your head to see if their working. If you could do that you'd instantly be unable to see. Eyes are meant to see out of not to be scrutinized and examined in the same way faith and belief are to be lived out in our actions. OCD makes us feel as if we don't believe but it can't interfere with our choice to act in belief. The question must be left alone. Lay it down and don't pick it up again. When it knocks ... don't answer. Just say ... oh well... that's making me feel pretty uncomfortable inside... but I'm going to ignore it and choose to live out my belief by my actions.
All OCD themes press us into compulsive checking and reassurance seeking behaviors. How do we know it's OCD? Because the more we check the worse we feel, then the worse we feel, the more we check... and on and on we go. Classic OCD circular treadmill. It's relentlessly exhausting, unless you're brave enough to jump off.
Praying for you,
Mitzi

annrobert · Nov 13, 2009

Every time I try to trust in Jesus to save me, it never seems to work. People say read your Bible or pray. But I barely seem to do it. Plus I am doubting whether or not I believe in God and His existence.

HumbleServant,
I am sorry that you are hurting and struggling
this will not last forever and one day Jesus will wipe all tears from our eyes.

Jesus said verily verily I say unto you, he that believeth on Me has everlasting life.

Jesus said all that the Father gives to Me will come to Me and he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus is Truth.

If we come to Jesus it is because Father God gave us to Jesus

when we come to Jesus we are in no wise cast out.

No matter what any feelings or doubts or confusion or OCD tells us or feels like or seems like

Jesus has the final say, Jesus is Truth

heaven and earth may pass away but Jesus Words will not pass away.

Jesus said the scripture cannot be broken.

Jesus is the Living Word.

Reading the bible and praying is great, we are nourished when we abide in Jesus this way.
Nevertheless when we are weak, Jesus is merciful and compassionate and understanding.There were times when all I could do was just cry out Jesus help me, Jesus help me please.
We can do nothing of ourselves.
Jesus gives us strength when we are weak.
Jesus came to heal the broken hearted and set at liberty those who are bruised.
Jesus invites us to come to Him for rest.

I have never seen an unbeliever going around worrying about whether they believe in Jesus or not, they do not care less that they do not believe, it does not worry them at all.
They are very satisfied with their unbelief.

I have only ever seen believers worry that they do not believe.

They believe so strongly and want to believe so much, precisely because they believe.
Then they worry about whether or not they believe.
Unbelievers do not care that they do not believe.
Only believers worry about whether or not they believe.

So you are a believer.

Jesus said verily verily I say unto you , he that believeth on Me has everlasting life.

We can trust Jesus.

Jesus is Truth.

We can also trust Jesus to meet every need

give us strength and comfort
rest and healing

a new heart

to make us grow

and every good thing we need

we are welcomed to come before the throne of grace boldly and receive grace and mercy in time of need because we are washed in the precious blood of Jesus.

Jesus said none will snatch us from His hand and we will never perish.

blessings
annrobert

RobertZ · Nov 13, 2009

annrobert said:
I have never seen an unbeliever going around worrying about whether they believe in Jesus or not, they do not care less that they do not believe, it does not worry them at all.
They are very satisfied with their unbelief.

I have only ever seen believers worry that they do not believe.

This is a good point and one worth taking into consideration.

HumbleServant94 · Nov 14, 2009

Annrobert: Well sometimes it's like I don't care. I swear I can't tell whether or not I am telling the truth on the subject. How do I know if I am telling the truth?

annrobert · Nov 14, 2009

HumbleServant,
You care because you are on here looking for and asking for help.
This shows you care.
You are seeking help because you want Jesus.
Deep in your heart you want Jesus,

OCD and the accompanying fear and confusion is troubling you.
If you could make all the fear and doubt and confusion go away,
and be able to to know that Jesus loves you infinetly and unconditionally
and
would give you rest and peace and healing and eternal safety and comfort
with Him
and you knew He would forgive you and wash you clean
and keep you safe forever and never leave you no matter what

you would run to Him

right?

Well that is exactly who Jesus is
and exactly what He does for us.

Just come to Him as you are

with any brokeness and doubts and confusions
any weaknesses and reluctance or unbelief

we cannot fix ourself and Jesus knows this

we can do nothing without Him

and Jesus knows this

We are weak

but Jesus gives strength to the weak.

We just come as we are

Jesus said he that cometh to Me, I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus is Truth.

blessings
annrobert

pjspara · Nov 15, 2009

when our hearts condemn us... He is still faithful...

HumbleServant94 · Nov 15, 2009

So how do I come to Him in all honesty and know that I mean it?

HoneyComb Son · Nov 15, 2009

Because he knows your heart even when you are so unsure..just make a choose..to go to Jesus..regardless of how you feel..

I have OCD..i know the uncertainity of truth or not..lie or truth..meaning to or not meaning too

i have learned not to go by feelings..Jesus is full of compassion..He knows your mind..and how it troubles us..he wont cast you away..just turn to Him

dont trust your own mind..just trust Him

you do care..because if you didnt.you wouldnt be on here

annrobert · Nov 16, 2009

Just come the way you are.Make a choice to come and Jesus will not cast you out.
Jesus will heal and fix your heart.
Jesus makes all things new.
we cannot fix ourself.
Jesus says come to Me all ye who labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.
All we do is come.
Jesus knows we cannot fix our hearts.
Jesus gives us strength and a new heart.
We just come and ask Him to be our Saviour and Lord.
We come and surrender to Him.
Just the way we are.

blessings
annrobert

i have learned not to go by feelings..Jesus is full of compassion..He knows your mind..and how it troubles us..he wont cast you away..just turn to Him

dont trust your own mind..just trust Him

you do care..because if you didnt.you wouldnt be on here

amen

HumbleServant94 · Nov 16, 2009

annrobert said:
Just come the way you are.Make a choice to come and Jesus will not cast you out.
Jesus will heal and fix your heart.
Jesus makes all things new.
we cannot fix ourself.
Jesus says come to Me all ye who labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.
All we do is come.
Jesus knows we cannot fix our hearts.
Jesus gives us strength and a new heart.
We just come and ask Him to be our Saviour and Lord.
We come and surrender to Him.
Just the way we are.

blessings
annrobert

amen

How do you tell the difference between having OCD and the real deal? How do you tell whether you really are not saved, or if you have OCD?

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