As a new member of this forum, Id like to say hello to everyone!
I found this thread to be a bit confounding to say the least; therefore, I decided to bring it back. Needless to say, I have a few questions. (I do hope this post is cohesive; Im awfully tired and I had to rewrite it in its entirety due to a computer crash. Please tell me if Ive made any glaring errors.)
Many verses in scripture reference the concepts of the ancient cosmography of the ancients who wrote the Holy Bible. How, Mr. JohnR7, can you otherwise explain the verses that say the earth set upon a foundation and has never and will never be moved?
for the pillars of the earth are the Lords and He has made them the base of the world. (1 Samuel 2:8)
He has made the earth strong on its bases, so that it may not be moved for ever and ever. (Psalm 104:5)
Or others that discuss the ends of the earth? (which, i might add, can not exist on a spherical globe such as our own)
And He will put up a flag as a sign to the nations, and He will get together those of Israel who had been sent away, and the wandering ones of Judah, from the four ends of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12)
If you regard these ends of the earth to be metaphorical, then, how can it be possible that the scattered people of Judah inhabited areas covering the entire surface of the earth? Do you suppose they could somehow have crossed the great oceans and reached the Americas, Australia, and Antarctica? Something tells me this is a stretch...
However, this argument is irrelevant, since you say the verse can not be interpreted metaphorically. Or am I confused? (You, sir, have already stated that only
your interpretation is the correct one, so one might ask why Im even arguing!)
This statement may fall upon deaf ears, but the Pope also says that the Bible was written in terms of the cosmogony of the ancients:
Sacred Scripture wishes simply to declare that the world was created by God, and in order to teach this truth, it express itself in the terms of the cosmology in use at the time of the writer. (Pope John Paul II, in an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, 3 October 1981)
Since cosmology is central to this discussion, then, it is certainly logical, to bring up the Book of Genesis (a few verses in particular):
And God said, Let there be a firmament stretching over the waters, parting the waters from the waters. (Genesis 1:6)
And God made the firmament for a division between the waters which were under it and those which were over it: and it was so. (Genesis 1:7)
It is important also that we understand the definition of the word firmament. A firmament is defined as a solid arch, from the Latin firmamentum, defined as a strengthening or support.
To clarify, it is
not disputed that the cosmologies of several ancient cultures were based upon the idea of a flat earth. Early Greeks posited the idea that a flat earth sat atop Hades and was surrouded by water around and air above. The Babylonians propounded the concept of a flat circular plane surrounded by a river, beyond which existed an impassable mountain barrier. The sun travelled through a tunnel in the mountain at night and entered and exited the sky through doors. The earliest Chinese imagined a square Earth surrounded by a sky in which the sun and stars revolved. The ancient Greek philosophers did not begin to argue that the earth was round (that is to say,
spherical, not circular) until the 7th century B.C.E., several hundred years after the writing of the Old Testament.
Before I continue, I have to ask: must I explain the relevancy of the Babylonian culture to its (that is, the Old Testament's) authors? (which is attested to in the Bible and several other written records)
Why, then, is it difficult to say that the Bible was written in terms of the prevailing cosmological view that existed in the time of its compilation? Indeed, it makes sense that God would direct that such a view should be written. In my interpretation, cosmology was the least of His worries.
Wow, that was a long post...
Ancient cosmology reference:
http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node1.html
(Dr. Jose Wudka, Associate Professor of Physics University of California, Riverside campus)
edit: wording and clarification
