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PilgrimToChrist
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As a Catholic, I can say definitively that Mary did have other children than Jesus:
The one grain of Christ, according to St. Ambrose, is called a heap of wheat because all the elect are contained within her:
What St. Paul says of himself is aptly applied to the Virgin:
So it's not a question of whether Mary had one child or six but rather how many millions of children.
Sancta Maria, Mater Ecclesiae, ora pro nobis!
Gen 3:15 said:
Rev 12:17 said:
Ps 86/87:5 said:
The one grain of Christ, according to St. Ambrose, is called a heap of wheat because all the elect are contained within her:
Cant 7:2 said:
What St. Paul says of himself is aptly applied to the Virgin:
Gal 4:19 said:
Jn 19:26 said:
So it's not a question of whether Mary had one child or six but rather how many millions of children.
Sancta Maria, Mater Ecclesiae, ora pro nobis!
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Exactly:
Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that Jesus was Mary's FIRST born.
Jesus had at least four brothers and at least two sisters.
And yes Mary had sexual relations with Joseph after Jesus was born.
What I don't get is why some want to deny the facts and then worship Mary.
I gauranty Mary will be dismayed, troubled and saddened when she is resurrected, and finds she has been used as an idol and put before or in place of her Christ.
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T
Thekla
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The terminology "firstborn" is used regardless of further issue. It is said of the first born (throughout scripture). It is said of the firstborn when that child is born. At that time, there is no way to know whether other children will be born. (Every firstborn was to be dedicated to God. Even in the 20th c., the term "prima para" is still used for the first pregnancy. Obviously, the OB using that term does not know if subsequent pregnancies will occur).
The term adelphos/n is not used exclusively for siblings.
Brief lexicons tend to restrict the definition, but that is not accurate information re: the term and its use in Hellenistic Greek.)
If one is to restrict oneself to scripture, it cannot be said that Mary had any other children, or even that she was married to Joseph. (The term for marry and betroth are the same; the terms for husband/betrothed, wife/betrothed are the same in Greek as well).
These are facts, and the iteration of facts is not a form of idolatry.
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Dorothea
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Some comments by St. John Maximovitch, Archbishop of Shanghai and San Francisco on this subject:
The seedless birth of Christ can and could be denied only by those who deny the Gospel, whereas the Church of Christ from of old confesses Christ “incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary.” But the birth of God from the Ever-Virgin was a stumbling-stone for those who wished to call themselves Christians but did not wish to humble themselves in mind and be zealous for purity of life. The pure life of Mary was a reproach for those who were impure also in their thoughts. So as to show themselves Christians, they did not dare to deny that Christ was born of a Virgin, but they began to affirm that Mary remained a Virgin only “until She brought forth Her first-born son, Jesus” (Matt. 1:25).
“After the birth of Jesus,” said the false teacher Helvidius in the 4th century, and likewise many others before and after him, “Mary entered into conjugal life with Joseph and had from him children, who are called in the Gospels the brothers and sisters of Christ.” But the word “until” does not signify that Mary remained a virgin only until a certain time. The word “until” and words similar to it often signify eternity. In the Sacred Scripture it is said of Christ: “In His days shall shine forth righteousness and an abundance of peace, until the moon be taken away” (Ps., 71:7), but this does not mean that when there shall no longer be a moon at the end of the world, God’s righteousness shall no longer be; precisely then, rather, will it triumph. And what does it mean when it says: “For He must reign, until He hath put all enemies under His feet?” (I Cor. 15:25). Is the Lord then to reign only for the time until His enemies shall be under His feet?! And David, in the fourth Psalm of the Ascents says: “As the eyes of the handmaid look unto the hands of her mistress, so do our eyes look unto the Lord our God, until He take pity on us” (Ps. 122:2). Thus, the Prophet will have his eyes toward the Lord until he obtains mercy, but having obtained it he will direct them to the earth? (Blessed Jerome, “On the Ever-Virginity of Blessed Mary.”
The Saviour in the Gospel says to the Apostles (Matt. 28:20) :” Lo, I am with you always, even auto the end of the world.” Thus, after the end of the world the Lord will step away from His disciples, and then, when they shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel upon twelve thrones, they will not have the promised communion with the Lord? (Blessed Jerome, op. cit.)
It is likewise incorrect to think that the brothers and sisters of Christ were the children of His Most Holy Mother. The names of “brother” and “sister” have several distinct meanings. Signifying a certain kinship between people or their spiritual closeness, these words are used sometimes in a broader, and sometimes in a narrower sense. In any case, people are called brothers or sisters if they have a common father or mother, or only a common father or mother; or even if they have different fathers and mothers, if their parents later (having become widowed) have entered into marriage (step-brothers); or if their parents are bound by close degrees of kinship.
In the Gospel it can nowhere be seen that those who are called there the brothers of Jesus were or were considered the children of His Mother. On the contrary, it was known that James and others were the sons of Joseph, the Betrothed of Mary, who was a widower with children from his first wife. (St. Epiphanius of Cyprus, Panarion, 78.) Likewise, the sister of His Mother, Mary the wife of Cleophas, who stood with Her at the Cross of the Lord (John 19:25), also had children, who in view of such close kinship with full right could be called brothers of the Lord. That the so-called brothers and sisters of the Lord were not the children of His Mother is clearly evident from the fact that the Lord entrusted His Mother before His death to His beloved disciple John. Why should he do this if She had other children besides Him? They themselves would have taken care of Her. The sons of Joseph, the supposed father of Jesus, did not consider themselves obliged to take care of one they regarded as their stepmother, or at least did not have for Her such love as blood children have for parents, and such as the adopted John had for Her.
Thus, a careful study of Sacred Scripture reveals with complete clarity the insubstantiality of the objections against the Ever-Virginity of Mary and puts to shame those who teach differently.
TrueOrthodoxy.Info - Saint John Maximovitch - The Orthodox Veneration of the Mother of God
The seedless birth of Christ can and could be denied only by those who deny the Gospel, whereas the Church of Christ from of old confesses Christ “incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary.” But the birth of God from the Ever-Virgin was a stumbling-stone for those who wished to call themselves Christians but did not wish to humble themselves in mind and be zealous for purity of life. The pure life of Mary was a reproach for those who were impure also in their thoughts. So as to show themselves Christians, they did not dare to deny that Christ was born of a Virgin, but they began to affirm that Mary remained a Virgin only “until She brought forth Her first-born son, Jesus” (Matt. 1:25).
“After the birth of Jesus,” said the false teacher Helvidius in the 4th century, and likewise many others before and after him, “Mary entered into conjugal life with Joseph and had from him children, who are called in the Gospels the brothers and sisters of Christ.” But the word “until” does not signify that Mary remained a virgin only until a certain time. The word “until” and words similar to it often signify eternity. In the Sacred Scripture it is said of Christ: “In His days shall shine forth righteousness and an abundance of peace, until the moon be taken away” (Ps., 71:7), but this does not mean that when there shall no longer be a moon at the end of the world, God’s righteousness shall no longer be; precisely then, rather, will it triumph. And what does it mean when it says: “For He must reign, until He hath put all enemies under His feet?” (I Cor. 15:25). Is the Lord then to reign only for the time until His enemies shall be under His feet?! And David, in the fourth Psalm of the Ascents says: “As the eyes of the handmaid look unto the hands of her mistress, so do our eyes look unto the Lord our God, until He take pity on us” (Ps. 122:2). Thus, the Prophet will have his eyes toward the Lord until he obtains mercy, but having obtained it he will direct them to the earth? (Blessed Jerome, “On the Ever-Virginity of Blessed Mary.”
The Saviour in the Gospel says to the Apostles (Matt. 28:20) :” Lo, I am with you always, even auto the end of the world.” Thus, after the end of the world the Lord will step away from His disciples, and then, when they shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel upon twelve thrones, they will not have the promised communion with the Lord? (Blessed Jerome, op. cit.)It is likewise incorrect to think that the brothers and sisters of Christ were the children of His Most Holy Mother. The names of “brother” and “sister” have several distinct meanings. Signifying a certain kinship between people or their spiritual closeness, these words are used sometimes in a broader, and sometimes in a narrower sense. In any case, people are called brothers or sisters if they have a common father or mother, or only a common father or mother; or even if they have different fathers and mothers, if their parents later (having become widowed) have entered into marriage (step-brothers); or if their parents are bound by close degrees of kinship.
In the Gospel it can nowhere be seen that those who are called there the brothers of Jesus were or were considered the children of His Mother. On the contrary, it was known that James and others were the sons of Joseph, the Betrothed of Mary, who was a widower with children from his first wife. (St. Epiphanius of Cyprus, Panarion, 78.) Likewise, the sister of His Mother, Mary the wife of Cleophas, who stood with Her at the Cross of the Lord (John 19:25), also had children, who in view of such close kinship with full right could be called brothers of the Lord. That the so-called brothers and sisters of the Lord were not the children of His Mother is clearly evident from the fact that the Lord entrusted His Mother before His death to His beloved disciple John. Why should he do this if She had other children besides Him? They themselves would have taken care of Her. The sons of Joseph, the supposed father of Jesus, did not consider themselves obliged to take care of one they regarded as their stepmother, or at least did not have for Her such love as blood children have for parents, and such as the adopted John had for Her.
Thus, a careful study of Sacred Scripture reveals with complete clarity the insubstantiality of the objections against the Ever-Virginity of Mary and puts to shame those who teach differently.
TrueOrthodoxy.Info - Saint John Maximovitch - The Orthodox Veneration of the Mother of God
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rosenherman
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Scripture defends the ever virginity of Mary - nowhere. It may very well be true, but you're trying to make The Bible say something it doesn't.
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The bile has always said she was Ever-Virgin. Till about 200yrs ago. When people decided it didn't.
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