Are spiritual gifts or miracles proof of divine favour or endorsement?

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geocajun

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Originally posted by thetruthseeker
Hi all,

If someone works real miracles in the name of Jesus, or has supernatural gifts (incredible spiritual gifts), is that person to be considered godly by default?
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Truthseeker, when you say 'godly' do you mean divine, or devout?
also, can you give a practical example of someone doing this?
Thanks,
 
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repentandbelieve

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Originally posted by thetruthseeker
Hi all,

If someone works real miracles in the name of Jesus, or has supernatural gifts (incredible spiritual gifts), is that person to be considered godly by default?

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

No, absolutly not.

 From the Book of Revelation chapter 13:13-14 

"And he (the beast) preformed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down out of heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. :holy:
 
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RevKidd

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I would never consider the fact that anyone who is capable of such works to be considered by default, someone who is Godly.....

Matt 7:21-23

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Paul said that we must test everything and that we will no people by their fruit.  I am one who believes that spiritual gifts and miracles have not ceased...  But in todays world there are many who will such to persuade the spiritually naive and ignorant to think that such people (ones that perform miracles and such) are on a "godly pedastal".
 
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thetruthseeker

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Originally posted by repentandbelieve
No, absolutly not.

 From the Book of Revelation chapter 13:13-14 

"And he (the beast) preformed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down out of heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. :holy:

Hi Repentandbelieve,

This is true. You've said it Repentandbelieve.

I just wanted to add an experience to the mix.

The reason that I asked this question is because people, for some reason, seem to be hungry for miracles and manifestations.

As you've shown, Satan loves to work miracles too--ask Moses and Aaron. He would be more than happy to show a few miracles for a little compromising.

I know that I've said this many times, but my family where all Catholics before they started reading the Bible for themselves. They were Catholic to the core and participated very heavily in the services. My father was even an alter boy.

Catholics are very superstitious and live their lives by mysticism. They believe in apparitions (appearances of the Virgin Mary), crying statues, crying walls, bleeding statues and other strange things. Believe it or not, some of it does happen. They base there whole faith on miracles alone.

Please have a look at the Catholic links below. There are many more.
http://www.evolute.org/virgin/#
http://www.zeitun-eg.org/stmary9.htm
http://www.zeitun-eg.org/stmaridx.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/praeternatural/madonna.htm
http://www.conyers.org/conyers/

The question is: Who is the real author of the miracle or manifestation, God or Satan?

When my father and his sisters were teens, they experienced some of these strange happenings. To this day they attest that they saw blood dripping down their walls and could not get much sleep at night because of a mysterious pounding on their roof. Needless to say, they (also Grandma) were extremely frightened by the proof of their Catholicism. In short, the disturbances did not stop until they started reading and living according to the Bible (this was the advice of a Seventh-Day Adventist friend). It did not take long for everyone to become Seventh-Day Adventists.

The Devil is a deceiver.

The funny thing about deception is that you don't know when you are deceived because you are deceived. It is very easy to be deceived if we live according to our senses or our feelings and not according to the very words of Jesus (the Bible).

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

How can we tell who is real?

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

This verse says that if someone contradicts the Bible then there is no light in that person or being.

God's word is the only defense.

Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker
 
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geocajun

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Originally posted by thetruthseeker
Hi Repentandbelieve,

Catholics are very superstitious and live their lives by mysticism. They believe in apparitions (appearances of the Virgin Mary), crying statues, crying walls, bleeding statues and other strange things. Believe it or not, some of it does happen. They base there whole faith on miracles alone.


oh really? can you show me that in Catholic doctrine or is this more o the conjecture which you are so prone to spew?
your experience in Catholicism is subject to your personal interpretation.... unless you can show me some authoritative Catholic doctrine to support your view you are lying.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Originally posted by thetruthseeker
Hi all,

If someone works real miracles in the name of Jesus, or has supernatural gifts (incredible spiritual gifts), is that person to be considered godly by default?

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

The answer to this question is NO.

As some of those before me have shown even the devil can perform what appears to be a miracle or work a supernatural gift. Spiritual gifts are not a sign that the person being used is Godly.

The Holy Spirit is here to draw all men toward Jesus. I believe anything that does not give glory to Him is not of Him. We are just the vessel being used.

Now there are legitimate happenings where some of the people on the receiving end missunderstand. That is not the fault of the one the Holy Spirit is ministering through. The hearers are held just as responsible as the one doing the works.

Scripture says that signs and wonders will follow after those that believe, not the other way around. Our eyes are to be turned toward God not the gift or the signs.
 
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Andrew

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The Bible says that the gifts of God are without repentance.

ie a Pastor who has the gifts of healings operating thru him can fall into sin (eg adultery) yet flow in the gifts of healings during service. that's why its a "gift" received by faith -- it doesnt depend on your performance. And once given God doesnt take it back just becos you sin. it may lay dormant but we can "stir" it up again as the Paul said.

God still gives gifts and the miraculous to the church. We are even told to earnestly desire these gifts so as to be equipped and empowered to minister effectively to others and to build p the church.

These gifts are to be dispensed until Jesus comes back, then we dont need them anymore, obviously.

Despite the gifts and the miraculous, we MUST be grounded in the Word first. that will guard us from becoming flaky and thinking that everything 'supernatural' is from God. the gifts and manifestations as well the the fruit must never contradict God's Word.
 
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All good things come from God....when John the Baptist ask if Jesus was the Messiah or were they to look for another...Jesus proved who He was by working miracles, then telling them to go tell John what they saw. I believe when John died, he did believe Jesus was the Christ and learned from the miracles spoken of by the messengers. I don't think all miracles are from God, but the good ones are.
 
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