What do they mean?

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Reformationist

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Hello everyone!

I would like to get anyone's interpretation of the following terms as to how they apply to Christ's death:



  • Atonement

    Propitiation

If you feel that supplying Scriptural reference will help you to better define your understanding feel free to do so.  I only ask that you do not inundate this thread with Scripture that will only cause confusion.

I'll start:

Atonement - Christ's substitutionary sacrifice, His life and death, was the sole sufficient and efficient satisfaction to appease God's wrathful judgment against His chosen.  Solely His life and death were sufficient to satisfy God and efficient to secure for God's chosen their salvation.

Propitiation - Christ's death was sufficient to gain or regain the favor or goodwill of God for God's elect.  Those that Christ died for are at peace with God and are no longer objects of His wrath but, instead, are now members of His family.

God bless
 

Reformationist

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Originally posted by tericl2
Atonement - avenue whereby I am changed in the eyes of God from unrighteousness to righteousness. I am atoned for....comes upon acceptance of the propitiation

Propitiation - the avenue which provides the atonement, as Christ is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for me

Thanks tericl2!  Could you clarify something for me?  You say "atonement" is the changing of you from unrighteous to righteous in the eyes of God, right?  So, if I understand that correctly, once your sins have been atoned for you are righteous in God's eyes, right?

Okay, assuming I understand you so far, the point of my confusion lies in the following:

You said "Christ is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for you," right?  But in your explanation of atonement you say that the atonement of your sins is not a result of Christ's works but rather a result of you accepting Christ's works as a propitiation.

Is that what you're saying?

God bless
 
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RevKidd

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Definitions taken from Merriam Webster Dictionary (online)ATONEMENT:                                                                           2:the reconciliation of God and man through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ

3: reparation for an offense or injury

PROPITIATE:                                                                        to gain or regain the favor or goodwill of

I sense this thread is going to go in the wrong direction,.....:rolleyes:

So, I give my definitions of the two words that were asked for and quietly leave the thread.
 
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tericl2

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Originally posted by Reformationist
Thanks tericl2!  Could you clarify something for me?  You say "atonement" is the changing of you from unrighteous to righteous in the eyes of God, right?  So, if I understand that correctly, once your sins have been atoned for you are righteous in God's eyes, right?

Okay, assuming I understand you so far, the point of my confusion lies in the following:

You said "Christ is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for you," right?  But in your explanation of atonement you say that the atonement of your sins is not a result of Christ's works but rather a result of you accepting Christ's works as a propitiation.

Is that what you're saying?

God bless

No, that is not what I said. Without Christ, who is the propitiation for our sin there is no atonement.
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by tericl2
No, that is not what I said. Without Christ, who is the propitiation for our sin there is no atonement.

Okay.  I don't think we differ on who the propitiation is.  I'm just asking if you believe the effectiveness of His works is regulated by your "acceptance" of those works?

Thanks,

God bless
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Leviathan
I sense this thread is going to go in the wrong direction,.....:rolleyes:

Did I word it badly?  What direction do you feel I'm leading this in?  Maybe you could help me steer it back in the right direction.

So, I give my definitions of the two words that were asked for and quietly leave the thread.

Your definitions are the merriam-webster definitions?  Maybe you could elaborate on how your definitions affect your view on Christ's saving work?

Thanks,

God bless
 
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OldBadfish

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Propiatation is referring to Christ being the mediator, the go between.

I presume you are speaking of predetermination, and my belief is that salvation was made available to all and that we are free to accept this propiatation or reconciliation with God through Christ.

If we were predestined why would there need to be a sacrifice? The chosen would already be sealed and there would be no need for salvation, as salvation does not erase the sins, it just allows God to view us as sinless because Christ took on our sins, therefore if we believe anyone can accept Christ.

This would not be consistent with God's offering of his son to cleanse ALL of mankind for their sins. God knew that there was no other way and the only way to allow all of his creations a chance at salvation was to sacrifice his son.

I don't mean to start a pre destine debate, but these 2 words are really emphasised in Pauls letter to the Ephesians when he is writing of the ransom and salvation.

In my humble opinion :)
 
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RevKidd

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Did I word it badly? What direction do you feel I'm leading this in? Maybe you could help me steer it back in the right direction.

Your definitions seems to have Calvinism written all over them, and it looked as if this thread was going to turn into another "Predestination Thread".  That is why I posted the Merriam Websters Definitions.  That's what you asked for correct, not a debate. 

 
Your definitions are the merriam-webster definitions? Maybe you could elaborate on how your definitions affect your view on Christ's saving work?

My definitions are not any different from what I originally posted.  They do not adhere to any systematic doctrine which I think, and please forgive me if I am wrong, is what you are looking for in the definitions.... 

O by the way.  I would like to mention that I do appreciate your comments and posts.  You are one of the few that soundly understand there beliefs and as for someone who really does not adhere to Calvinism or Arminianism ( I think both are correct and incorrect and have much to give in all of Christianity) you do shed some light for those of us who want to understand. 

God Bless.
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Leviathan
Your definitions seems to have Calvinism written all over them

That's probably because I agree with Calvin on his interpretation of Scripture.

O by the way.  I would like to mention that I do appreciate your comments and posts.  You are one of the few that soundly understand there beliefs and as for someone who really does not adhere to Calvinism or Arminianism ( I think both are correct and incorrect and have much to give in all of Christianity) you do shed some light for those of us who want to understand. 

God Bless.

Thank you.  That's very kind of you.

God bless
 
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