Interesting verses

As it happens, I just listened to an amazing sermon on this very thing. I couldn't possibly respond any better than John MacArthur did:

Jesus? Authority to Forgive Sin :: Grace to You

Balance said:

Luke 5:17 Now it happened on a certain day, as He was teaching, that there were Pharisees and teachers of the law sitting by, who had come out of every town of Galilee, Judea, and Jerusalem. And the power of the Lord was present to heal them. 18 Then behold, men brought on a bed a man who was paralyzed, whom they sought to bring in and lay before Him. 19 And when they could not find how they might bring him in, because of the crowd, they went up on the housetop and let him down with his bed through the tiling into the midst before Jesus.
20 When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, He answered and said to them, “Why are you reasoning in your hearts? 23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
25 Immediately he rose up before them, took up what he had been lying on, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. 26 And they were all amazed, and they glorified God and were filled with fear, saying, “We have seen strange things today!”

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Here's this man. In need of healing. His friends bring him to Jesus, they go through the roof because of the size of the crowd. He's lowered in front of Jesus and Jesus see's the man in need of healing and says what?!

Man your sins are forgiven you.​

Then He reads the religious leaders thoughts and caps it by saying

23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
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So, two questions to provoke some thought.​

1. Why did Jesus purposely connect the forgiveness of sins with healing?​

2. Does the Son of Man still have power on earth to forgive sins? If so, then wouldn't healing still be proof of it?​

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Your saying healing is proof of forgiveness? And I thought ya'll thought speaking in tongues was, but were going one step further now. First off let me say that I don't think there is any proof beyond a changed heart and life. I don't believe that's the inference of that scripture because the healing is of the flesh and the forgiveness is spiritual. Do you have other scripture to support that hypothesis?

Balance said:

Luke 5:17 Now it happened on a certain day, as He was teaching, that there were Pharisees and teachers of the law sitting by, who had come out of every town of Galilee, Judea, and Jerusalem. And the power of the Lord was present to heal them. 18 Then behold, men brought on a bed a man who was paralyzed, whom they sought to bring in and lay before Him. 19 And when they could not find how they might bring him in, because of the crowd, they went up on the housetop and let him down with his bed through the tiling into the midst before Jesus.
20 When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, He answered and said to them, “Why are you reasoning in your hearts? 23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
25 Immediately he rose up before them, took up what he had been lying on, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. 26 And they were all amazed, and they glorified God and were filled with fear, saying, “We have seen strange things today!”

​

Here's this man. In need of healing. His friends bring him to Jesus, they go through the roof because of the size of the crowd. He's lowered in front of Jesus and Jesus see's the man in need of healing and says what?!

Man your sins are forgiven you.​

Then He reads the religious leaders thoughts and caps it by saying

23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
​

​

So, two questions to provoke some thought.​

1. Why did Jesus purposely connect the forgiveness of sins with healing?​

2. Does the Son of Man still have power on earth to forgive sins? If so, then wouldn't healing still be proof of it?​

Click to expand...

I guess any provocation of thought on Luke 5:17-23 we can see that our Messiah was being meticulously watched by the pious, influential “religion leaders”, and were watching HIM like a lawyer of the courts.

We can see that “FAITH” and forgiveness walk hand-in-hand, and the “religious leaders” knew that only God could forgive sin, and they saw blasphemy, even though HE was waving a “red flag” at the “religious leaders” that HE possessed that authority to forgive sins, and by HIS forgiveness the man was healed showing HIS divine deity.

Of course HE has the power on earth to forgive sins, because that is part-and-parcel of our belief at salvation, and when we exercise our “FAITH” in our Messiah we are saved from the penalty of sin and are declared righteous. And as we continue to live by “FAITH”, HE will continue to save us from the power of sin.

Balance said:

John MacArthur is, (I believe), one of the greatest expounders on the Old Testament.

It is just such a shame that skill and ability doesn't follow him into the New Testament.

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That is one opinion of course.

I will listen to the John MacArhur sermon later. QC I don't think there is a direct connection with the healing physically and the forgiveness of sins here. I think the healing was just an example of the kind of authority Messiah Jesus possessed. It validated his ability to say "Son thy sins are forgiven thee". He also knew the background of the man he was dealing with due to having the Spirit without measure complete and working in His own life (word of knowledge if you will) so could rightly proclaim the forgiveness of his sins.

Jhn 3:31"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.

Jhn 3:32He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.

Jhn 3:33The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.

Jhn 3:34For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God [fn] gives the Spirit without limit.

Jhn 3:35The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.


http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=3&v=31&t=NIV#dict/36

Jhn 3:36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." [fn]

Qc?

Progress of religious leaders opposition

Luke 5:21 hidden in their hearts
Luke 5:30 they challenge the disciples
Luke 5:33 Jesus Himself is challenged
Luke 6:2 they set a trap for Jesus
Luke 6:11 ends with a discision to kill Jesus

Anyway, the priority is forgiveness which sets captives free. Real lasting healing begins with inner healing.
"Is it more difficult to forgive sins or say get up and walk?" But he proved He could do both by the parapheligic getting up to walk.

Balance said:

So, two questions to provoke some thought.

1. Why did Jesus purposely connect the forgiveness of sins with healing?
2. Does the Son of Man still have power on earth to forgive sins? If so, then wouldn't healing still be proof of it?

Click to expand...

Not sure I'm understanding what you are asking here, but....Maybe perhaps the mans sins and feelings of guilt were what had caused him to be paralyzed. Science has proven that our guilt feelings and even our refusal to forgive others for their sins to us causes many physical ailments....which frequently disappear when we forgive and/or experience forgiveness from those we have wronged. Of course Jesus still forgives our sins. However, as humans we tend to still hold on to those things that cause us to be sick due to our holding on to them.

I think Balance is saying (correct me if I am wrong brother!) that Jesus healed the man to SHOW and PROVE that He can forgive.

The question is therefore:

Why did Jesus use HEALING to PROVE He can forgive sins? Or even, why did Jesus do ANYTHING to PROVE He can forgive sins?

It's interesting that He saw the great faith of both the man before Him and of those who lowered him down, it says He saw "their" faith, but when He acted He said, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”. He saw the faith of several but forgave one.


Why? Because that was the reason that man was there in the first place more than any healing and Jesus knew his intentions and his heart. He proves that in the next few verses when He does the same thing and He 'percieves' the thoughts and intents of the Pharasees.

The man was forgiven because he wanted to be forgiven. The man is healed because Jesus' divine nature was being questioned. The Pharasees said no one can forgive sins but God (v.21), and they were right. Jesus was demonstrating His divine nature, and therefore His authority to forgive sins, and did so by healing the man.


He could have done one, or both, or neither, but their wasn't a 'connection' between the healing and the forgiveness. One was done as a display of authority and the other as the act of a forgiving God and a repentant sinner.

I think it is also reasonable to think perhaps the common idea that people were sick because of someone's sin came into play here. Remember the man born blind the leaders wanted to know who had sinned. Jesus said neither this man or his parents.
This is kind of the reverse situation, a man healed of paralysis caused perhaps by sin that is seen by the son of God in his ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is said that sometimes bitterness and unforgiveness play a role in developing illness, not always and not a law just a different scenario. There is also the scenario of illness caused by demonic oppression. Both the man born blind and the paralyzed man need fogiveness and healing. Just a thought and not that articulate but what do you think?