Is the Messianic Faith becoming more Rabbinical?

Another thing that has been going through my mind is rather than using the talmud to understand torah, wouldn't it be better to read and observe torah in light of the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus) especially since he was known as Rabbi.

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I believe that is the main objective of Messianic Judaism.

Heber said:

We need a new thread for this new style of communication - it looks less like Rabbinical and more like mystical Kabbalah to me!

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I am just humbly sticking around you math giants, here, hoping maybe it will rob off on me a bit.all the neat equasions, how do you come up with that?

visionary said:

I believe that is the main objective of Messianic Judaism.

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So true, Vis! and ,sadly, MJ takes a lot of beating from all sides for that honorable objective, doesnt it?

Ahhh back to English. Sorry but I got lost in all the equationese.

True wisdom does reveal itself in humility. While Talmud, Mishna and some other talmudists' works are a worthy study and some teachers do deserve allowing them to bend our ear, but we should always use judgement and dicretion. Well, as with any written ( or heard) theological piece

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True words spoken here.
As with any opinion of any person - we need to take it and examine it thru the lenses of Scripture. If it rings true it is worthy and if it doesn't then give it the boot.
I find it interesting that some are so critical of the Jewish sages but yet build doctrines around the very same opinions and commentaries of church fathers and commentators. How many stake their lives on the words of Calvin? How many can quote even the words of Paul but haven't a clue what Yeshua says?

Calvin who?

anisavta said:

Ahhh back to English. Sorry but I got lost in all the equationese.


True words spoken here.
As with any opinion of any person - we need to take it and examine it thru the lenses of Scripture. If it rings true it is worthy and if it doesn't then give it the boot.
I find it interesting that some are so critical of the Jewish sages but yet build doctrines around the very same opinions and commentaries of church fathers and commentators. How many stake their lives on the words of Calvin? How many can quote even the words of Paul but haven't a clue what Yeshua says?

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Probably the same people who simply read the Bible as any other book, and do not see the gems within the pages they read. I am always astounded when I ask people to make a connection between two things in a Bible Study and they do not know enough of their Bible to even hazard a guess at it! And that's just the latter testament, if you include the earlier testament you may as well be teaching them in alienese, not plain English!

Only other comment is that when we weigh the words we must be brutally honest with ourselves - it is easy to weigh words and choose to ignore then because they do not feel comfortable! It is sooooooooo easy to harden our hearts and allow hasatan to convince us that those words were not really for us - remember it happening somewhere before?

BarryWestern said:

Another thing that has been going through my mind is rather than using the talmud to understand torah, wouldn't it be better to read and observe torah in light of the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus) especially since he was known as Rabbi.

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Christianity has always done that. Sometimes not very well, but nevertheless I can't think of one decent Christian teacher that uses the Talmud to understand the Torah- I can think of a few modern-day fringe groups that might though.

I second that, Contra. I would add that it's now fashionable in certain Christian circles to flirt with some terms and concepts haphazardly borrowed from Talmud and related works to spice up the sermon/Bible study. Luckily, they usually they don’t know enough to be dangerous

Sadly it’s often done without any deep understanding, rhyme or reason, just as a stylish thing to do.I am a very patient person, but that gets to the point when it bugs me at times, for they surely don’t do justice to neither religion..

anisavta said:

I find it interesting that some are so critical of the Jewish sages but yet build doctrines around the very same opinions and commentaries of church fathers and commentators.

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I write it off as envy if one dismisses the sages' windom it’s surely his loss.

May i add that I personally,in the matters of godly living and to get help in difficult situations still rather seek advice of my former rabbi; the move that raises eyebrows of my fellow christian brethren. But I'd honestly admit that he is smarter in those matters then my pastor, all due respect to the latter, for my rabbi is 87, May God give him long days, that's twice my pastor's age, and has more wisdom and life experience.
(It’s my forever prayer he sees to Yeshua as Messiah, but not yet).

Error posting.... see the thread by this name

Heber said:

Calvin who?

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Ivy said:

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Oh THAT one!

Ha before I scrolled to the last post - that is what I was going to say...

Lol!

ContraMundum said:

He didn't say that. He did experience a lack of love though, despite giving lip service to the concept of love within his experience of Judaism. Nothing trumps "words" like experience, eh?

A learned Rabbi did say that, because he found the love of God in Jesus Christ. Christian love is unconditional, the love of the Rabbis is absolutely and most definitely not.

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Clearly this individual was unfamiliar with the Ba'al Shem Tov, who emphasized unconditional love. His great-Grandson, Rebbe Nachman of Breslev emphasized the same.

ChazakEmunah said:

Clearly this individual was unfamiliar with the Ba'al Shem Tov, who emphasized unconditional love. His great-Grandson, Rebbe Nachman of Breslev emphasized the same.

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Yes, I'm sure he knew all of that- and the legends surrounding their great deeds.

ContraMundum said:

Yes, I'm sure he knew all of that- and the legends surrounding their great deeds.

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That's too bad then. I can't speak for other Chasidim, but in Breslev we go to great lengths to follow the teachings of Rebbe Nachman, who was very particular to practice love of both Jew and non-Jew alike.

Messianic Judaism is probably a little more rabbinical than reform orthodox but in no way is it even close to orthodox judaism.

oooops... Reform Judaism... lol sorry about that